Ebola Outbreak

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
Lots of complaints (mostly on the internet of course!) about people ignoring voluntary quarantines, including one nurse who was on a plane and has been diagnosed with Ebola.
 
There's so much controversey going on within the internet right now. What strikes me is how inadequately we are prepared should we be faced with a wider spread of this virus. The biggest mistake I see is to suggest that because we are not a "third nation" that we will survive this better. One breach such as what this nurse did has the potential to create another pocket of this virus. We may have the technology but how does one account for human stupidity? And this was done by someone that was trained to know better.
 
one of the challenges of the internet is false information and jumping to conclusions.
We now know that the nurse contacted the appropriate authorities, gave specifics and was advised to fly. There is no indication that the individual was unsafe to fly.

The difference between the situations is the one group being responsible for the health of individuals, and the other group being aware of the hysterics of the population.

I do feel that we should be working and providing time and dollars to fight Ebola.
As I posted earlier, the best thing that has happened for West Africa is for the US to go into panic mode.
 
I have had first hand knowledge in helthcare facilities and let me tell you I see breeches of protocol all the time. Doctors and many nurses fail to follow alot of simple guidelines like washing their hands. (doctors are the worst) I can't tell you how manytimes I've observed nurses removing their gloves the wrong way or removing personal protection from isolated rooms, in the wrong order....let alone a hazmat suit. I've even seen some hang their gowns and reuse them upon reentering an isolated room because their aren't enough clean ones. We leave the facilities without showering and washing our clothes or changing our shoes to our street shoes. Simple things really but still it's done all the time. Virus's heighten the awareness, yes, but people are still people.
 
Last edited:
Do you have a link to the article Pinga? Was she exposed to ebola and showed no symptoms so thus was allowed to fly? Why wasn't she under observation until cleared.......if she was exposed?
 
Thanks. 99.5 low grade fever you would think afebrile would be key , especially someone directly exposed.
 
Waterfall said:
I have had first hand knowledge in helthcare facilities and let me tell you I see breeches of protocol all the time. Doctors and many nurses fail to follow alot of simple guidelines like washing their hands. (doctors are the worst) I can't tell you how manytimes I've observed nurses removing their gloves the wrong way or removing personal protection from isolated rooms, in the wrong order....let alone a hazmat suit. I've even seen some hang their gowns and reuse them upon reentering an isolated room because their aren't enough clean ones. We leave the facilities without showering and washing our clothes or changing our shoes to our street shoes. Simple things really but still it's done all the time. Virus's heighten the awareness, yes, but people are still people.
Click to expand...


Certainly there are a lot of breaches in hygiene in hospitals and hand washing is a big one.

In part it was because of the way hospitals were built in the past. Four bed rooms, a bathroom in the corner. It encouraged staff to walk from patient to patient. Single rooms or double rooms helps. The best are when the rooms are built with sinks in the hall

But also in your post is some misinformation.

Often gloves and gowns are not to protect the staff member but to protect the patient. You wear gloves so your hands don't touch and contaminate the wound or IV or whatever you are doing. You are protecting the patient, not the other way around in general

Staff in isolation wards, even any specialized ward in general do change at the hospital and wear scrubs that are laundered by the hospital. Nurses leave shoes in lockers. I have never once worn my shoes or uniform home from work because of the type of units I worked in.

Nurses have in the past worn clothes home but that is changing. Partly it is personal safety. Dont take bugs home but also don't advertise yourself as a nurse on transit.

I have never worked in high isolation so I have never showered at the hospital before changing. If that became routine, it would require a huge rebuild of hospitals. And I am not sure it would assist in anyway. If you have walked from a contamination unit to a locker room to a shower you in theory are spreading germs as you go. And the majority of patients in a hospital are not particularly infectious

I expect that high infection level units have accommodations for showering if required. They certainly have reverse air flow and separate air from the main hospital.
 
Lastpointe said:
But also in your post is some misinformation.

Often gloves and gowns are not to protect the staff member but to protect the patient. You wear gloves so your hands don't touch and contaminate the wound or IV or whatever you are doing. You are protecting the patient, not the other way around in general
Click to expand...

Not sure where I said this? But I would say gloves are to protect healthcare workers and the patients. Gloves do not provide complete protection against hand contamination.

I have never encountered any virus such as ebola or SARS. The only kinds of isolations I've been involved with are C-diff, pneumonia, AIDS, hepatitis, VRE, MRSA, etc...
Even those with more experience in the area of extremely potent viral conditions must be having to learn something new daily. Basically working with what is known and unknown at the same time. I'm not sure I could handle what they are doing. I admire what they are doing. I wonder if this is on a volunteer basis?
 
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/16/health/us-ebola/index.html
To that end, Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings told CNN's Anderson Cooper on Thursday night that about 50 people from Texas Health Presbyterian have signed a document legally restricting where they can go and what they can do until they totally clear of Ebola.

Among other things, they'll be placed on a "Do Not Board list" that would prohibit them from flying commercially like Vinson did. (Frieden

"They can't take public transportation. They must have personal monitoring twice a day," Rawlings said. "Furthermore, they cannot go to public places."
Click to expand...
I hope that these workers were given a choice whether or not to work with someone once an Ebola diagnosis is made, and that they were told it was possible restrictions such as this might be put in place even when they are healthy.

I am a bit surprised they are sending in specialists who have had more than the generic training to come in. Major precautions were taken when flying in sick Americans, I was surprised to see the lack of stringency in comparison once Duncan was diagnosed.

The CDC seemed to want to eliminate any risk possible when they were in control, having the patients brought in. Now, it seems to me because this is the general public, and something that would less directly be their fault, they aren't trying to have anywhere near the same level of precaution.
 
Last edited:
Waterfall, I was referring to your comments about taking off gloves the wrong way.

With this Ebola scare and with SARS , infection control was very different than day to day care.

Removing gloves after a procedure isn't a big deal as the requirement for gloves in general is to protect the patient from the nurse, not the nurse from the patient.

So , I suction a patient using gloves and a sterile suction catheter. Then I pull off my glove inside out and generally I keep the suction catheter inside the glove as I pull it off.

But I am not particularly concerned about touching part of the glove with my clean hand as the patient is not contaminated


That is the routine in most patient situations.

Even an OR. The elaborate gown technique is , in general, not to protect the staff but to protect the patient from random bacteria.

You practice gown ing, masking , gloving and washing in order to keep the patient safe, not the other way around.


SARS and Ebola are quite different

I suspect that has added to the confusion and issues for staff. Unless you work regularly with highly infected patients, you are not used to thinking of the gowns as "self protection"
 
And I agree with others that the CDC appears to have dropped the ball in Texas. They spouted lots of words about containment but seem to have fallen short in follow through

Now the national guard reserves are on standby? For what exactly? The last thing they need is more people muddying the water. They need highly specialized people, who have lots of experience dealing with highly infectious situations to handle the patients.

And they need a very clear policy on what you should do if you have been possibly exposed. It seems pretty hit and miss right now, depending on who you ask for advice from. It is quite stunning that the second nurse, travelled in the first place when she should have been advised not to for three weeks. And then to find out she called for advice after she developed a fever and was told it was ok to fly. Who was that person? Really , any twit would have said "stay where you are, we will come to you, see no one......."


Mainly I wonder why any and all patients have not been transferred to the high containment spot where the two workers from Africa were treated. They recovered and no word that any of their care givers fell ill. I suspect because unlike ordinary nurses like myself , those ones are highly trained to think of the patient as the dangerous item and gown and glove accordingly....
 
Lastpointe said:
Waterfall, I was referring to your comments about taking off gloves the wrong way.

With this Ebola scare and with SARS , infection control was very different than day to day care.

Removing gloves after a procedure isn't a big deal as the requirement for gloves in general is to protect the patient from the nurse, not the nurse from the patient.

So , I suction a patient using gloves and a sterile suction catheter. Then I pull off my glove inside out and generally I keep the suction catheter inside the glove as I pull it off.

But I am not particularly concerned about touching part of the glove with my clean hand as the patient is not contaminated


That is the routine in most patient situations.
Click to expand...

According to WHO

http://www.who.int/gpsc/5may/Glove_Use_Information_Leaflet.pdf
 
Yes, obviously gloves are to stop you getting bodily fluids on yourself.

But I repeat , that in most cases the patient is not infectious and we are working to protect the patient.

Patients acquiring infections while in hospital is a very real risk. Patients come in with one issue and if they are there long enough run into serious risks of developing an infection. Hence the hand washing ........


Gloves remain a very big issue for nurses. I had several of my staff develop latex allergies requiring them to be off work for prolonged periods of timeline for their hands to heal. Non latex gloves were ordered but even those caused issues. The special soap and hand washing issues were huge.

In NICU, with say two patients you would be amazed at how many times you washed and wore gloves. In general a baby would be handled every two hours. A sick infant perhaps would require you much more. You washed before and after each contact. It could be easily be 50- 100 times a shift. Cracked hands were a real reason that nurses could not work in our unit

Nurse health is a big issue. things like getting food poisoning can result in a nurse being off for extended periods of time
 
Just read that a staff member from that Texas hospital is on a cruise ship.

Undoubtably there is no risk but still, now how many more people are going to be frantic
 
I think the biggest danger in this current Ebola outbreak is some suicidal Jihadist maniacs getting hold of the virus and purposely spreading it, as God agents in an act of divine retribution.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top