Do Americans and Canadians Have Different Ideas on Racism?

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Ferguson aftermath: Protests in Toronto, Ottawa spark debate

Demonstrations held outside U.S. Consulate in Toronto, U.S. Embassy in Ottawa
The Canadian Press Posted: Nov 25, 2014 8:08 PM ET Last Updated: Nov 26, 2014 7:07 AM ET

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ferguson-aftermath-protests-in-toronto-ottawa-spark-debate-1.2850162

A suggestion that white and non-black protesters limit their visibility and "stand behind black folks" at protests Tuesday in Ottawa and Toronto against the fatal shooting of a black teen in Ferguson, Mo., has sparked a heated debate on social media.

Bilan Arte, one of the Ottawa event organizers, says on the vigil's Facebook page that "white/non black allies" should "refrain from taking up space" and "never be the centre of anything."

The same message appeared verbatim on the Facebook page for the Toronto rally, asking whites and non-blacks not to speak to the media, saying "black voices are crucial to this."

Arte's post prompted more than 100 comments, with one man asking,
  • "Is this an anti-racist rally or a pro-segregation one?"
Arte, deputy chairwoman with the Canadian Federation of Students, says on her own Facebook page that she's received upward of 50 messages from "righteous upset white people" taking issue with the post.
 
The International conversation that we should be having is about excessive police violence ... not racism.

The Case for Police Reform Is Much Bigger Than Michael Brown
Conor Friedersdorf Nov 26 2014, 5:46 AM ET

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...s-is-much-bigger-than-michael-brown/383210/2/

The notion that white people have nothing to fear from police is nonsense. The examples are endless. A Georgia police officer with a questionable safety record shot and killed a 17-year-old white teen when he opened the door holding a Wii controller. Long Beach police killed a white guy holding the nozzle of a garden hose.

Sometimes white people are shot without any object in hand. Around the same time police in Ferguson killed Michael Brown, a Utah officer shot and killed an unarmed white guy outside a convenience store. The local district attorney ruled that justified.

One needn't deny the disproportionate harm police abuse does in minority communities to see that it's inaccurate to say that police abuse of whites isn't a problem, too. Racism is far from the only factor here, and eliding that fact is surely counterproductive for reformers. Whites would be obligated to help reduce police abuse even if they were never subject to it, but the cold political reality is that people of every race have a purely selfish incentive to rein in law enforcement—even white people, whether they're being assaulted by police with pepper spray or high-powered pepper plume or tasers ... or literally beaten to death.

So what specific reforms are needed? Too many to list them all in this article. But here are a few measures, beyond video cameras, that would improve policing:
  • Decisions about when to charge officers should be made by independent prosecutors, not regular district attorneys, who rely on police to testify in most of the cases they bring. That gives these district attorneys a perverse incentive to refrain from aggressively prosecuting misconduct.
  • Police unions should be able to negotiate salary, benefits, and nothing else. Firing an abusive police officer should be easy.
  • All police departments should have strong civilian oversight.
  • The War on Drugs should end.
  • Most military-grade police equipment should be returned to the federal government or destroyed.
  • Civil asset forfeiture should be reformed.
  • No-knock raids should stop in almost all cases.
The movement that grew in the wake of Brown's death will need to pursue concrete, specific goals like these if their anger and outrage is to serve any purpose. Supporters with constructive criticism might improve the odds of success. The present course probably isn't sufficient, despite the rhetorical support it enjoys.
 
Undefiniive, do you feel thar article is accurate for Canada? Do you feel that the majority of police shootings are inappropriate? Do you have a concern with police carrying weapons -- ie, are you recommending the British system? What do you think the consequences are if you start to introduce delays in police officers decisions/actions?
 
The stop-and-frisk policy of the New York and Philadelphia police, similar to the "carding" done by Toronto officers, has ired activists ...


In Toronto , groups such as the Toronto Police Accountability Coalition and the Canadian Civil Liberties Association have been vocal opponents of police carding, but discussions of lawsuits have taken place only informally.

“I think lawyers are thinking about the option,” says Joanna Macdonald, a lawyer and member of the coalition. She says activists are watching to see what happens in the U.S.

“There is an active group of lawyers called the Law Union and I know there have been discussions about what to do about this chronic issue,” says Macdonald. It’s “not going away.”

Some activists have told the Toronto Police Services Board that the recent gun violence is perhaps even more reason to limit carding and improve relations with the people who are impacted the most.

“We cannot talk about gun violence, the reluctance of affected community members to speak to police, or the Toronto Police Service proposing a solution to addressing the violence in our communities without also talking about the need for proper non-discriminatory policing that is free of racial bias,” Moya Teklu, a policy research lawyer with the African Canadian Legal Clinic, told the board in July.
 
But despite the loss of two of his officers, Greater Manchester Chief Constable Sir Peter Fahy was quick to speak in support of the status quo.

"We are passionate that the British style of policing is routinely unarmed policing. Sadly we know from the experience in America and other countries that having armed officers certainly does not mean, sadly, that police officers do not end up getting shot."

But one thing is clear. When asked, police officers say overwhelmingly that they wish to remain unarmed.

A 2006 survey of 47,328 Police Federation members found 82% did not want officers to be routinely armed on duty, despite almost half saying their lives had been "in serious jeopardy" during the previous three years.

It is a position shared by the Police Superintendents' Association and the Association of Chief Police Officers ... and @UnDefinitive agrees
 
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@Pinga ... ok, I understand that you know how to quote articles.

I quote articles that relay what I am not able to formulate into words fast enough to answer your questions ... Perhaps you are interested in enlightening me on what you actually think as opposed to criticizing and dismissing my posts with sarcasm.

PINGA do you feel that article is not accurate for Canada? Do you feel that the majority of police shootings are appropriate? Do you have a concern with police not carrying weapons -- ie, are you opposed t the British system? What do YOU think the consequences are if you start to introduce delays in police officers decisions/actions?
 
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Eric Garner, a 43-year-old African-American father of six ... murder was videotaped from start to finish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=j1ka4oKu1jo


"This story was strikingly similar to the police killing in Ferguson, where Officer Darren Wilson gunned down unarmed African-American teenager Michael Brown. Both cases involved white police officers using deadly force. Both of the victims were unarmed African-Americans. In both cases, local prosecutors, with close ties to their local police departments, were allowed to control the grand jury.

There were some differences between the cases. Most notably, Eric Garner’s killing was captured on video.
If you look at the video closely, just as NYPD Officer Daniel Pantaleo puts him in an illegal chokehold, you see Eric Garner put his hands up, the international signal of surrender. He is then taken down by a gang of police officers. You hear him repeatedly say, “I can’t breathe!” He says it a total of 11 times before he goes limp and dies.

Where did this video come from? A young man named Ramsey Orta was standing near Garner on that July 17 afternoon when the police moved in. Orta flipped open his cellphone and videoed the whole thing. Pantaleo was caught red-handed. The evidence was there for everyone to see. Well, the grand jury decided not to indict Pantaleo. Only two people were arrested in the wake of Garner’s death: Ramsey Orta, who shot the video, and his wife, Chrissie Ortiz. Chrissie told a local television station that since Ramsey was identified as the videographer, they had been subjected to police harassment. Ramsey was arrested the day after the city medical examiner declared Garner’s death a homicide.

As news spread that Officer Daniel Pantaleo was cleared in the killing of Eric Garner, New York Mayor Bill de Blasio stood with African-American leaders on Staten Island. “Our history requires that we say, ‘Black lives matter,’” he said. Centuries of history, he stressed. Across the city, people gathered in Staten Island at the scene of Garner’s death, and in Harlem, in Times Square, in Union Square. Among the signs: “Ferguson is everywhere.” - Amy Goodman

The protests against impunity are just beginning ...

"In Canada, there have been numerous incidents were the police have been caught on video in their lies and in their abuse of civilians. Some of the more publicized cases include: the beating of Stacey Bond in a police station by the Ottawa police; the multitude of recorded assaults and abuses of power by the Toronto police during the G20 in 2010; the Taser-related death of Robert Dziekanski, a confused, helpless, frightened man in the Vancouver airport; the severe beating of an Edmonton man who was under police control; the unjustified pepper sprayingof protestors by a Montreal police officer; and a Vancouver officer who kicked a high, helpless, half-dressed man several times.

These cases prove two realities: First, that the proliferation of cellphone cameras is increasingly catching those meant to serve and protect us in acts of violence and brutality against us. Second, catching the police red-handed has not stopped police abuse of power.

Videos, law suits, inquests, inquiries and public outcries -- none of these seem to have shaken the intractable police conviction that some civilians deserve to be beaten by the police, and that the police can act with impunity." Dyanoosh Youssefi | Posted 09.22.2013 | Canada Politics
 
The hatred we call racism is just part of a long list prejudices that come naturally to us - all of us. The news media encourages it. during a war we are conditioned to call the enemy names which indicate they are of a lower order than us. Currently, out news media are working on us to hate Muslims and Russians. We are horrified when Muslims kill a western Christian - but really just don't care when western Christians kill Muslims by the million. Class distinction is a close relative of racism. In particular, it gives the very wealthy a sense of entitlement to wield power - and so we have governments all over the world - and very much so in Canada and the US - becoming government by big business. That's what the fuss in the Ukraine is all about. The American people don't want a war - but the news media (owned by the very wealthy) are stoking the fires of hatred. Then they'll come up with an excuse for war - as though they have no choice. Big business in the US is the real government of the US; and it wants war and very soon with Russia because US big business wants control of all the world's markets, and Russia is the major force remaining in the way.
So far, most of us humans have fallen for racism every time.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
Russia is the major force remaining in the way.
Click to expand...


Economically speaking, I think China is actually in a stronger position that Russia given how much economic influence they have built up in the developing world, so if the US thinks getting Russia out of the way is going to give them control of the world's markets, they are likely wrong. OTOH, it is harder to pick a fight with China who are fairly careful to keep that influence at the economic level (ie. they rarely send military forces outside their borders, or at least what they recognize as their borders). The Russians' aggressive approach to foreign policy does make them a rather easy target.
 
What aggressive Russian foreign policy? The trouble in the Ukraine was sparked by American interference in staging a coup against the elected government. Ever since, Russia has been reacting to American threats. The American complaint against Russia - and the reason for US interference in Syria and Iran - is that those countries have responded favorably to Russian imports. It's the same sin as Cuba. But the US - and it has said so - is working on dominance of all world economies.

Militarily, Russia is probably the stronger one right now in terms of equipment and strategic position. Defeating it would also place the US in a stronger position to take on China - if we all last that long.
 
Calls to mind Bob Marley:

We no know how we and dem a-go work this out, oy!
We no know how we and dem a-go work it out.​

Also Chief Justice of the Canadian Supreme Court, Beverly Mclachlin, who, in a Baldwin Fontaine lecture, on CBC, suggested that the primary challenge of our time will consist in our capacity for the negotiation of difference.

Pogo comes easily to mind: "We have seen the enemy and the enemy is us."

There is one fractured human being manifest as a battle of each against all. In this game the achievement of power is the great motivator. This power considered a hedge against the vulnerability of human being in the world of nature.

Let me eradicate in my own being what I judge in the being of my neighbour. Let me begin with intolerance of difference. Then go on to embrace opportunity manifest as difference.

Perfect love casts out all fear. This matters where the whole world is dominated by those who manipulate the fear of death to serve political and economic objectives.

I worked twelve years providing intimate personal care for chronically or terminally ill persons. A rich opportunity for a participant observer. Based on hundreds of case narratives, I noticed a consistent strand of soft racism in the mature adult population from French and English roots. A deeply ingrained sense of superiority in relation to other peoples and places.

There are many manifestations of one human being in and through the natural order. Where there is agreement there is order. Where there is disagreement, confusion takes root to bear fruit as chaos.

Agreement is contradicted where it is coerced.

George




 
Racism is commonly the justification for exploitation, slavery, and imperialism. Churchill was at least as racist as Hitler. Racial superiority was the excuse for Britain ruling other countries. Ditto with the US and Central America. The US killed over two million in Vietnam - probably far more. But few in the US (or Canada) were shocked by it. Those people were of an inferior race. (But there would have been horror if Vietnamese had raided California, and killed even one person. The news media and the politicians (and big business) use that as the excuse to kill Muslims. News reporting commonly puts Islam into a racial category.

Devout Belgians, for the same reason, felt justified in killing Congolese by the million

Empire built a tremendous racism in Britain. You can see a good deal of it in the writing of John Buchan.
 
We are profoundly racist, and quite ignorant of it. We are infuriated when Muslims kill a dozen or so people in Paris. We think nothing of it when our side tortures and murders millions in countries of people who look different from us. In Canada, people who are not white get paid less for doing the same job as a white person. We are worse that racists. We are hypocrites.
 
Race-ism; the belief of the overly emotional ... too quick!

When perhaps we should adhere to the old axiom ... be still and know ... kinda brings the emotional to a stop ... period? That damned dot !
 
Canada seems to be ahead of America on many social issues - or is it more backslidden?
 
RitaTG said:
How about your view? .... is Canada more backslidden?
I would very much like to know your view
Click to expand...
RitaTG said:
How about your view? .... is Canada more backslidden?
I would very much like to know your view
Click to expand...

Now that's an interesting question Rita. For what reason are you in particular desirous of my view? Well - anyway - here's how I ser things ---

Dark powers such as ageism - sexism - and racism - hold both nations in their grasp. They tend to show themselves more openly in America - but they have Canada kidnapped as well.

Generally speaking - Americans are quicker to demonize other Americans than Canadians are their fellow Canucks.
 
Thank you for the answer Jae ...... I will take that as Canada being less backslidden ..... for whatever that is worth...
I too am concerned about the attitudes that are seeping over the border.
 

For some years I have been observing a substantial erosion of the 49th parallel. This has to do with the many and diverse partnerships of Evangelical Christianity which pursue common goals on both sides of the separating boundary.

In Canada, we have a strong conservative political agenda being expressed, with the blessings and encouragements of diverse fundamentalist Christian denominations. This movement is growing in discipline and numbers. It is essentially a hybrid deriving from the intercourse of Calvinism and Capitalism.

Here, in the small prairie city where I live, the evangelical fundamentalists are working to fill political seats with members loyal to the denominational agenda. Provincial and Federal Conservative members of parliament are publicly esteemed and encouraged by this politicizing evangelical movement.

This movement may not be racist but it is clearly xenophobic.

George
 
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