Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Weird. I missed Campbell on the list I looked at that showed the religious affiliation of PMs. Maybe they forgot her?
Discrimination against a Christian?
- Thread starter Mendalla
- Start date
Welcome to Wondercafe2!
A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!
Weird. I missed Campbell on the list I looked at that showed the religious affiliation of PMs. Maybe they forgot her?
Why should they not be taken seriously?
chansen
Had a point all along
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Kimmio, you ,make a good point that BC is the least religious province. As of 2001, Christians made up less than 50% of the population, and that will only have declined, along with the rest of Canada.
Wait, here is 2011 data. The non-religious have gone from 36% to 44% in 10 years, while Christians have gone from 53% to 45% in that time. With an average population of ~30 million people, BC Christians are declining by about 250,000 per year, while the non-religious are increasing their numbers at about the same rate.
At that rate, in the three years since the 2011 data, the non-religious now very likely outnumber Christians in British Columbia. Astonishing, really. If the trend holds for a few more years, BC will likely be the first province in Canada where the majority are non-religious.
Wait, here is 2011 data. The non-religious have gone from 36% to 44% in 10 years, while Christians have gone from 53% to 45% in that time. With an average population of ~30 million people, BC Christians are declining by about 250,000 per year, while the non-religious are increasing their numbers at about the same rate.
At that rate, in the three years since the 2011 data, the non-religious now very likely outnumber Christians in British Columbia. Astonishing, really. If the trend holds for a few more years, BC will likely be the first province in Canada where the majority are non-religious.
chansen
Had a point all along
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
They're a school that openly discriminates and tells their students not to engage in same sex relationships. This company is in the wrong. The school also is in the wrong. This applicant is about the only person who did nothing wrong here, except perhaps choose a school with a poor reputation.
ChemGal
One with keen eye
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Not in general, yet. There are some out there though, and they do seem to be increasing.
chansen
Had a point all along
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Right, and that's something we have to be vigilant about. But there are a lot of Christian voices out there, saying how persecuted Christians are. In Syria and Iraq, yes. In the US and Canada, no. To suggest "persecution" is not silly, it's disgusting. And it filters down. Even the idea that there is a "general bias" completely ignores that the majority of Canadians self-identify as Christian!
These Scandahoovian yahoos give us a bad name, but most aren't like that. You'd really have to look hard to find more examples of this. Hell, just find me another Viking. That would be something.
These Scandahoovian yahoos give us a bad name, but most aren't like that. You'd really have to look hard to find more examples of this. Hell, just find me another Viking. That would be something.
Hermann
Well-Known Member
Well, the Norse people chose Christianity as little as other European pagans did, or other aboriginals elsewhere in the world, but it is fair to say that some of their kings or chieftains chose it, because it made them kings by divine right, or, as was the case in central and Northern Germany, the chieftains became prince bishops: ecclesiastical as well as temporal rulers over their tribe. Only the Saxons put up a fierce resistance, which was brutally put down by Charlemagne in a decades-long battle.
The ancient Norse gods, Thor in particular, were war-like, fought beside their followers and assisted them in battle. But the Vikings, though they battled others tribes, were strongly egalitarian among themselves and practiced true democracy, which they carried over into Christianity. This was why the Papacy did not sit well with them, and they threw it off at the nearest opportunity and became Lutheran to the last man. This, I think, was a popular choice! But, because the Protestant Reformation embraced the spirit of free inquiry, Scandinavian societies eventually became largely secular while retaining the Viking (and Christian!) egalitarian spirit.
Coming to the topic under discussion, I don't understand why a graduate of Trinity Western would even attempt to seek a job in an organization of rough-and-ready Neo-Vikings? Trinity Western is notorious for its Christian fundamentalism. Their law degrees, for instance, are not recognised by the BC Law Society because Western Trinity graduates are required to believe that homosexuality is evil and goes against God's will.
The ancient Norse gods, Thor in particular, were war-like, fought beside their followers and assisted them in battle. But the Vikings, though they battled others tribes, were strongly egalitarian among themselves and practiced true democracy, which they carried over into Christianity. This was why the Papacy did not sit well with them, and they threw it off at the nearest opportunity and became Lutheran to the last man. This, I think, was a popular choice! But, because the Protestant Reformation embraced the spirit of free inquiry, Scandinavian societies eventually became largely secular while retaining the Viking (and Christian!) egalitarian spirit.
Coming to the topic under discussion, I don't understand why a graduate of Trinity Western would even attempt to seek a job in an organization of rough-and-ready Neo-Vikings? Trinity Western is notorious for its Christian fundamentalism. Their law degrees, for instance, are not recognised by the BC Law Society because Western Trinity graduates are required to believe that homosexuality is evil and goes against God's will.
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I highly doubt that the company advertised itself as "rough and ready neo-Vikings", Arm. They likely advertising as an outdoor adventure/guiding company looking for guides, an area in which she has experience so she applied.
A school cannot require its graduates to believe anything. Once they are out of the school, it has 0 say over their lives. The issue in question is making students sign a behaviour code that, among other things, requires them to refrain from same-sex relationships because of scripture. The assumption of the law societies is that they will then be taught that gay = evil and somehow become anti-gay because of that. Really, anyone who is anti-gay and goes to Trinity was probably anti-gay going in because of attending a church that taught that viewpoint, not because of going there.
In short, I am not convinced of the rationale for the law society boycott. Someone who believes that gay = evil can just go to any mainstream law school and as long as they keep their mouth shut, become a lawyer. Someone who is cool with gay relationships but is otherwise a devout Christian could go to Trinity and now they cannot become a lawyer even though they might become a very good one. If the law societies want to start vetting the religious and moral beliefs of lawyers, it should be done by individuals, not schools.
Hermann
Well-Known Member
Well, even if they had hired her, she may have quit again soon when she saw them wear Thor hammers for tattoos and pendants and invoke Thor for a wild ride.
They don't endorse same-sex relationships, and that means the quality of education in the subjects they teach is deficient because... Because... Why was that exactly? Chansen, you say they discriminate. On what basis do you think they do so on? There are no doubt homosexuals at TWU, just as there are some at Tyndale.
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
To be fair to Trinity, their code clearly is against all extra/pre-marital sex. The problem comes with their statements on marriage and sex. The wording, "sexual intimacy that violates the sacredness of marriage between a man and a woman" would suggest that a legally married gay or lesbian couple would not be welcome or at least would not be welcome to live as a couple. Gay marriage is the law of the land and saying it isn't welcome in your institution is discriminatory, even if that discrimination is then justified using the Bible and defended as religious freedom.
Private institutions like TWU are well within their legal rights to require their students to meet the behavioral standards which they do. All universities have behavioral standards of one kind or another.
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Right, but that's does not mean that standard is not discriminatory. It just means that under freedom of religion, that discrimination is being given a pass. So long as TWU is not receiving public funding, that discrimination will likely be unchallenged. If it were to receive public funding (and I don't know if it does or not), then it would only be a matter of time before someone challenged that discrimination before the Human Rights Commission and I'm not sure Trinity would win at that point. I can accept them setting discriminatory codes so long as they are spending their own money (e.g. private donations, tuition paid by students) but if public money is involved (which ultimately means the money of people like chansen and I who may oppose their policies) then they should be expected to follow the standards expected of all public bodies, including human rights codes.
(Yes, I know the Separate School system here in Ontario discriminates even though it receives public funding. I am in favour of scrapping that system in favour of a single public system that is governed by the provincial human rights code with no exemptions).
What standard(s) of the Human Rights Code is TWU not following?
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I'm no lawyer, but I'd suggest that "sexual intimacy that violates the sacredness of marriage between a man and a woman" when marriage in Canada can legally be between two men, two women, or a man and a woman would be seen as discriminatory by not recognizing the marriages of other types of couples. What does that mean, exactly? If a legally married gay couple (or one half of one anyhow) somehow got accepted into Trinity (an unlikely event in the first place), they could be expelled or otherwise sanctioned simply for having a normal, intimate relationship because the university, in essence, refuses to recognize that legal marriage? No public institution can get away with a policy like that when human rights codes now prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation. Trinity can only because they are a private religious institution and can cloak themselves in freedom of religion.
Last edited:
Are they discriminating against people based on sexual orientation? Can you provide evidence of that? I would completely agree that that's wrong. Seems to me what they're doing is making rules regarding people's behavior. That's a different thing.
ChemGal
One with keen eye
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
If person A can have sex with a woman, I think it's discriminatory to say that person B can't, just because they have a different gender.
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Trinity Western University said:
Here is another passage where they state that "sexual is reserved for marriage between one man and one woman" (which ignores all the polygamous marriages in the Old Testament, but I digress). It is also made clear in the final section that there are procedures for ensuring accountability, implying that engaging in acts that contravene this could be subject to some kind of discipline. Given that marriage in Canada is not restricted to "one man and one woman" but to "two persons", there is the possibility that a legally married couple consisting of two men or two women could be treated differently than one consisting of "one man and one woman". That's discrimination based on orientation in my books. Whether it is permitted discrimination due to freedom of religion is a separate issue. Permitted or not, it is discrimination.
I'm going to close the books on this discussion, though, unless others want to chime in. Until they are actually tested before an HRC or court (which is unlikely to happen because I can't see that many gay people would actually try to go there) we cannot definitively answer whether it constitutes legal discrimination or not, only give our opinions on whether it meets our personal definition of discrimination.