Deconstructing and Recistructing

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
Been asking myself if I respect Rebecca's courage in deconstructing her earlier faith. I guess so but I don't think it can be assumed everyone needs to do this. I think it depends on the nature of that faith to begin with and how much freedom you were given to ask questions, wrestle with doubt, and so on.

Rebecca left behind a career as a pastor to become a spiritually seeking writer. Now that is one gutsy move!
 
unsafe said:
Carolla -----your statement here -------- the message, as I understand it, was 'love your neighbour as I have loved you'

Well I say you are right here -----But -just want to put things here in order ---we need to understand that that is the Second Command -----we cannot skip the First Command and just go to the Second ----
We need to adhear to the First Command first -----Love God with all your mind --heart and soul ---only then can you property as God wants us to ----Love your neighbour ----
Click to expand...
HOwever 1 John 4:20-21 makes it clear that if you are not doing the second you can not be doing the first so I think it is false to even say they are two separate commandments
 
paradox3 said:
Just as an aside, I think the phrase "God is Love" from John's gospel is often taken out of context.
Click to expand...
I think it is often used as a bit of a simplification.
(As an aside my memory is that the phrase itself come from the 1st Letter of John, not the Gospel -- although I would argue it fits well with the theology of John's Gospel)
 
Right you are it's the 1st letter. Agreed that it is sometimes used as a simplification.
 
GordW said:
HOwever 1 John 4:20-21 makes it clear that if you are not doing the second you can not be doing the first so I think it is false to even say they are two separate commandments
Click to expand...
I was also pondeering that GordW, thinking that if we believe (and not everyone does) that God is within each of us, then it seems that loving neighbour IS loving God.
 
GordW ----you said ----
HOwever 1 John 4:20-21 makes it clear that if you are not doing the second you can not be doing the first so I think it is false to even say they are two separate commandments

I say --

I think GordW you are misunderstanding what this scripture is meaning ------this scripture is talking about Believers who don't support another Believer ----

1 John 4:20-21​

Amplified Bible​

​

20 If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates (works against) his [Christian] brother he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should also [unselfishly] love his brother and seek the best for him.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 22:37-39 definitely says ---these are 2 separate commands there GordW ------

Context
The Greatest Commandment
…
…37Jesus declared, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment

39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’…

I say
You cannot do the second Command without doing the first ----as the Love here is talking Agape not human Love ------and Agape is a fruit of the Spirit -------
 
If one actually reads the text as it is, without the Amplified Bible's unnecessary and often misleading interpretations and interjections, (which, by the way, DO NOT EXIST in the original Greek text), one may find that the actual text tends to support GordW's reading.

In other words, it is not GordW who is misunderstanding the text.
 
I do find it encouraging, that after the author left pastoral ministry, she was able to find a position and profession where, I believe, God can work with her, and through her.
 
Redbaron said:
If one actually reads the text as it is, without the Amplified Bible's unnecessary and often misleading interpretations and interjections, (which, by the way, DO NOT EXIST in the original Greek text), one may find that the actual text tends to support GordW's reading.

In other words, it is not GordW who is misunderstanding the text.
Click to expand...
So exactly what is the Amplified Bible, please? Can someone explain?

Not wanting to sidetrack us but this seems like it could be important.
 
Redbaron ---Matthew 22 that I quoted isn't from the AMP Bible ---it is from the Berean Bible ---

this is from bible getaway sight --read here
www.biblegateway.com

Amplified Bible (AMP) - Version Information - BibleGateway.com

www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com

AMPLIFIED BIBLE (AMP)
Publisher: The Lockman Foundation

Version Information​


For this update to the Amplified Bible (AMP), the goal of the translation team was to enhance the appeal of the Amplified Bible by refreshing the English and refining the amplifications for relevance and clarity. The result is an Amplified Bible that is easier to read and better than ever to study and understand.
The Amplified Bible of 2015 includes more amplification in the Old Testament and refined amplification in the New Testament. Additionally, the Bible text has been improved to read smoothly with or without amplifications, so that the text may be read either way. The same feel and style of amplification has been maintained, so that those who read the classic Amplified Bible will be able to easily transition to the new text.
The AMP was the first Bible project of The Lockman Foundation. Its goal was to take both word meaning and context into account to accurately translate the original text from one language into another. The AMP does this through the use of explanatory alternate readings and amplifications to assist the reader in understanding what Scripture really says. Multiple English word equivalents to each key Hebrew and Greek word clarify and amplify meanings that may otherwise have been concealed by the traditional translation method. The first edition was published in 1965.

The AMP is based on the American Standard Version of 1901, Rudolph Kittel’s Biblia Hebraica, the Greek text of Westcott and Hort, and the 23rd edition of the Nestle Greek New Testament as well as the best Hebrew and Greek lexicons available at the time. Cognate languages, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and other Greek works were also consulted. The Septuagint and other versions were compared for interpretation of textual differences. In completing the Amplified Bible, translators made a determined effort to keep, as far as possible, the familiar wording of the earlier versions, and especially the feeling of the ancient Book.
The Amplified Bible Classic Edition (AMPC) present on Bible Gateway matches the 1987 printing.
 
@unsafe You quoted 1 John 4:20-21 from the amplified Bible. That is what I referred to. I said nothing about Matthew 22.
 
here is 1 John 4 in the expanded Bible ----there Redbaron ----not the AMP Bible --it is saying the same as the AMP --this scripture that GordW quoted is about believers supporting believers ----it has nothing to do with unbelievers Loving their neighbours ------YOU cannot Love your neighbour without first loving God and having Christ in you ----Agape is a fruit of the Holy Spirit not the human Spirit -----

1 John 4:20-21

Expanded Bible

​

20 If people say, “I love God,” but hate their brothers or sisters [C fellow believers], they are liars. [L For] Those who do not love their brothers and sisters [C fellow believers], whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have never seen. 21 And ·God gave us this command [L we have this command from him]: Those who love God must also love their brothers and sisters [C fellow believers; John 13:34].

Your grasping at straws trying to make the Scripture say what you would like it to say and want to ignore what it really says cause you don't like what it says -----
 
It isn't me who is grasping at straws.
And it isn't GordW who is misunderstanding the meaning of the text.
 
Expanded Bible? What is this? I have never encountered it until now.

Forgive me but I can't help but wonder if folks are reaching for the translation/ interpretation which best supports the ideas they hold already.
 
Of course I probably do the same. I am partial to the NRSV, The Message and the NET.

And I still like the KJV and the NKJV.

I have a NIV study Bible which gets some use, too.
 
I try to cast my net wide when it comes to translations, but I do have three "go to"s. And these are the three I use when I participate in our Wednesday morning bible study. I do not like paraphrases, or expansive type translations. So I don't like the AMP version, but I similarly dislike The Message. And I've found the bias (anti-feminist, anti-LGBTQ, pro-status quo theology) in the NIV to be irritating. My first favorite is The Inclusive Bible. It's a full translation, led by a Jesuit group, of both scriptures, including the Apocrypha, which makes serious, generally hugely well-done, efforts to translate in a manner that is inclusive of gender, race, orientation. It's got its flaws, but it's always worth a look. My second favourite, just for the Gospels, is The Five Gospels, by the Jesus Seminar. It appears to be a very accurate translation; whether you are interested in the "likelihood of the words of Jesus" or not. It's also got a TON of interesting commentary, and it ALWAYS puts together the references for the same story in different gospels. My third and standard, research, favourite is the Oxford NSRV with Apocrypha. It's not terribly poetic, but it is beautifully annotated.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top