Covid 19 Vaccine

[ChemGal]

$1B worth of COVID vaccines likely to expire soon: AG report - National | Globalnews.ca

Canada has tens of millions of doses of COVID-19 vaccines likely to expire soon because of a failure to manage oversupply, a new report from the auditor general says.

globalnews.ca

Unacceptable and not getting people vaccinated is likely contributing to more variants. The longer and higher viral liad someone has the virus = more chances for mutations and those new mutations to spread to someone else.

Especially knowing the bivalent vaccines were coming that should have affected plans or monovalent stock. We need some monovalent doses available here but not the amount we hoarded.

 

[Waterfall]

$1B worth of COVID vaccines likely to expire soon: AG report - National | Globalnews.ca

Canada has tens of millions of doses of COVID-19 vaccines likely to expire soon because of a failure to manage oversupply, a new report from the auditor general says.

globalnews.ca

Unacceptable and not getting people vaccinated is likely contributing to more variants. The longer and higher viral liad someone has the virus = more chances for mutations and those new mutations to spread to someone else.

Especially knowing the bivalent vaccines were coming that should have affected plans or monovalent stock. We need some monovalent doses available here but not the amount we hoarded.

You would think if Canadians are not using them, we should be actively looking to donate the vaccines to countries that will use them, rather then let them expire.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

This blog was posted by a respected bioethicist I trust, written by one of his colleagues. In essence, what’s explained is that science influencers bungled it up from both sides. It’s neither that vaccines are dangerous to everybody, nor that they are not dangerous for anybody - vaccines did produce greater risk for myocarditis in young men, for example, than non vaccinated young men - according to this. But a lot was driven by politics and misinfo. One side pushing vaccines adamantly to all and saying they’re safer than Covid for all - the other saying they’re dangerous for all. They are both wrong.

The Misinformation Police Strike Out

Being able to debunk Jade Eggs does not mean you know how many boosters a 20 year old man needs

sensiblemed.substack.com

 

[Mendalla]

This blog was posted by a respected bioethicist I trust, written by one of his colleagues. In essence, what’s explained is that science influencers bungled it up from both sides. It’s neither that vaccines are dangerous to everybody, nor that they are not dangerous for anybody - vaccines did produce greater risk for myocarditis in young men, for example, than non vaccinated young men - according to this. But a lot was driven by politics and misinfo. One side pushing vaccines adamantly to all and saying they’re safer than Covid for all - the other saying they’re dangerous for all. They are both wrong.

The Misinformation Police Strike Out

Being able to debunk Jade Eggs does not mean you know how many boosters a 20 year old man needs

sensiblemed.substack.com

People often regard people like me who think the truth lies in the middle on things like this as being wishy-washy but the fact is, the truth often lies in the middle. Here, vaccination is safe and effective for MOST people, but there are groups who need to take other factors into consideration and may need to put some thought as to which vaccine to get and even whether to get it. So, there's no blanket "yay" or "nay" but rather individual circumstances matter.

 

[Mendalla]

So, there's no blanket "yay" or "nay" but rather individual circumstances matter.

BUT, if there's no health reason (like myocarditis risk) involved, then "yay" should be a no-brainer.

 

[Carolla]

Well, we are off tomorrow to get our boosters - I'm losing track of what number this is tho! 4th shot I think. We had COVID end of July, so 4 months out we're good to go now.

 

[ChemGal]

You would think if Canadians are not using them, we should be actively looking to donate the vaccines to countries that will use them, rather then let them expire.

Yep, with enough lead time where they can reasonably be administered before they expire.

 

[Mendalla]

Well, we are off tomorrow to get our boosters - I'm losing track of what number this is tho! 4th shot I think. We had COVID end of July, so 4 months out we're good to go now.

Yeah, Mrs. M just got her bivalent and I'll get mine soon. Also 4 months post-infection.

 

[ChemGal]

People often regard people like me who think the truth lies in the middle on things like this as being wishy-washy but the fact is, the truth often lies in the middle. Here, vaccination is safe and effective for MOST people, but there are groups who need to take other factors into consideration and may need to put some thought as to which vaccine to get and even whether to get it. So, there's no blanket "yay" or "nay" but rather individual circumstances matter.

I'm similar on a lot of things I often find though people will often lump me into extremes for it. Ie. If I mention issues with vaccines people who do make blanket pro vaccine statements will start labelling me antivax.

For blanket statements one that has continued to annoy me, especially as it is coming from organizations like AHS - if you're sick stay home. Do I know what they mean by it? Yes. I think it is really dismissive though of what my day to day life is like.

 

[Waterfall]

Is there a legitimate study that mask wearing over the last 2 years has caused an increase in RSV and the flu in young children and the elderly?

 

[Mendalla]

Is there a legitimate study that mask wearing over the last 2 years has caused an increase in RSV and the flu in young children and the elderly?

I suspect it is not so much the mask wearing as them being isolated and then going back into school and getting exposed. But, no, I don't know of a study specifically on this issue.

 

[ChemGal]

Is there a legitimate study that mask wearing over the last 2 years has caused an increase in RSV and the flu in young children and the elderly?

I'm not sure about a specific study or even the specific infection controls. In general though, based on the data I think it's safe to say things used to reduce Covid spread reduced other respiratory infection such as RSV and flu. Mask wearing, distancing, people avoiding others when showing symptoms, etc.

I see nothing that suggests mask wearing increases RSV and flu.

 

[Waterfall]

I'm not sure about a specific study or even the specific infection controls. In general though, based on the data I think it's safe to say things used to reduce Covid spread reduced other respiratory infection such as RSV and flu. Mask wearing, distancing, people avoiding others when showing symptoms, etc.

I see nothing that suggests mask wearing increases RSV and flu.

Well the "immunity gap" stated in Kimmios article suggests that the increase in RSV and the Flu this year, was caused by the increased use of masks during the last two years, as the children and elderly didnt develop a normal environment for immunity to occur.
What I want to know is it opinion, fact or just that it "seems that way". So a scientific study?

 

[Waterfall]

I suspect it is not so much the mask wearing as them being isolated and then going back into school and getting exposed. But, no, I don't know of a study specifically on this issue.

Neither do I.

 

[jimkenney12]

Not getting sick for two years from most respiratory illnesses seems to have lowered the alertness of immune systems. This might be a factor in the greatly increased number of cases of Strep A in children in the UK where 9 children have died already this fall.

 

[Waterfall]

I'm also curious about our health crisis.....
How many walk in clinics are in you town or city?
In my town there are 3.
All 3 are not opened on the same day. Only one at a time, and sometimes the one that's opened is only for half a day.
Maybe it's time to lure the retired docs back to practice like theyre asking the retired nurses?

 

[ChemGal]

Well the "immunity gap" stated in Kimmios article suggests that RSV and the Flu was caused by the increased use of masks during the last two years, as the children and elderly didnt develop a normal environment for immunity to occur.
What I want to know is it opinion, fact or just that it "seems that way". So a scientific study?

If it does exist it's due to their withdrawal not their use.
I don't know how well we can tease out all the factors, another I forgot is reduced travel. If an illness isn't circulating in a community and no one brings it in, that also prevents spread.

For me the question I have about the 'immunity debt' is what it actually is. People are using the term differently. Lets say without covid we know a particular chld would have had RSV as a baby snd at ages 2 and 4. Due to Covid prevention measures they didn't get it at age 2. Are they sicker with it at age 4 because they didn't get it at age 2?
Or to look at it another way - has the % of serious RSV compared to total RSV infections increased?

 

[Waterfall]

Not getting sick for two years from most respiratory illnesses seems to have lowered the alertness of immune systems. This might be a factor in the greatly increased number of cases of Strep A in children in the UK where 9 children have died already this fall.

But do you/scientists have any other theories besides this one?
We also have seen other problems with health emerge because of having had Covid....as in long Covid.

 

[Waterfall]

If it does exist it's due to their withdrawal not their use.
I don't know how well we can tease out all the factors, another I forgot is reduced travel. If an illness isn't circulating in a community and no one brings it in, that also prevents spread.

For me the question I have about the 'immunity debt' is what it actually is. People are using the term differently. Lets say without covid we know a particular chld would have had RSV as a baby snd at ages 2 and 4. Due to Covid prevention measures they didn't get it at age 2. Are they sicker with it at age 4 because they didn't get it at age 2?
Or to look at it another way - has the % of serious RSV compared to total RSV infections increased?

Exactly...we should know because we may be placing less importance on masking our kids without this knowledge.

 

[ChemGal]

But do you/scientists have any other theories besides this one?
We also have seen other problems with health emerge because of having had Covid....as in long Covid.

Yes, there is another. What we are seeing now is the opposite of flattening the curve. So instead of kids being hospitalized over the past 2 years with RSV with a fairly consistent although slight ebbs and flows we saw drastically reduced rates for a while and a huge wave now. Add in medication shortages, increased multiple infections and not fully recovered from past infections making that worse. Oh and flu vaccination rates are low too.

I suspect it falls somewhere in between. Ie. I don't think the cumulative numbers are as high as some people seem to be suggesting. I do think some exposure that would have occurred without COVID did have some protective effect.