Covid 19 Vaccine

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Waterfall said:
Just wondering, is there such a thing as too many boosters? Can we build up an immunity to the vaccine?
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My understanding of immunity and tolerance isn't far enough to give a full answer.
I'm pretty sure at first would just come no benefit with a bit of increased risk of adverse reactions.
After some point I think it's possible where the immune system starts to just recognize something as part of the body - tolerance antibodies may come into effect but that's where I get hazy on what is needed. It would require fairly constant amounts of antigen though, so an injection once or twice a year wouldn't do this. Just looking at main groups of antibodies there are different types there and then can be narrowed down so it's not a simple if A then B situation. It's like if A then B, C , D , E, F etc. The immune system is more like a group of systems.

Some of the homeless in AB having been getting numerous doses so people fraudulently get their vaccine proof. It's currently being investigated but apparently a 3rd party is charging $2000 to people who want fake proof and then giving homeless people $100 to go get the vaccine in someone else's name. Some have gotten as many as 7 doses in a short time frame, apparently. They could be a small sample size to look at, but their general health status is specialized too.
 
ChemGal said:
My understanding of immunity and tolerance isn't far enough to give a full answer.
I'm pretty sure at first would just come no benefit with a bit of increased risk of adverse reactions.
After some point I think it's possible where the immune system starts to just recognize something as part of the body - tolerance antibodies may come into effect but that's where I get hazy on what is needed. It would require fairly constant amounts of antigen though, so an injection once or twice a year wouldn't do this. Just looking at main groups of antibodies there are different types there and then can be narrowed down so it's not a simple if A then B situation. It's like if A then B, C , D , E, F etc. The immune system is more like a group of systems.

Some of the homeless in AB having been getting numerous doses so people fraudulently get their vaccine proof. It's currently being investigated but apparently a 3rd party is charging $2000 to people who want fake proof and then giving homeless people $100 to go get the vaccine in someone else's name. Some have gotten as many as 7 doses in a short time frame, apparently. They could be a small sample size to look at, but their general health status is specialized too.
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I know other vaccines sometimes lose their effectiveness, but mRnas?
Would they be a different scenario?
 
Waterfall said:
I know other vaccines sometimes lose their effectiveness, but mRnas?
Would they be a different scenario?
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It shouldn't make a huge difference, as the body isn't really responding to the mRNA for the most part, it's the protein that gets formed that the mRNA has the code for. I guess a big difference though is where the protein exists. With something like the flu shot, it's injected into the blood. With mRNA, viral vector, live vaccines, the protein is made in cells. Some of the other ingredients in the vaccine can also stimulate aspects of the immune system.
 
ChemGal said:
It shouldn't make a huge difference, as the body isn't really responding to the mRNA for the most part, it's the protein that gets formed that the mRNA has the code for. I guess a big difference though is where the protein exists. With something like the flu shot, it's injected into the blood. With mRNA, viral vector, live vaccines, the protein is made in cells. Some of the other ingredients in the vaccine can also stimulate aspects of the immune system.
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Humm, I wonder how the "other" vaccines are doing that aren't Mrna?
I hear Israel is allowing air travel and lessening restrictions. Some are saying because they're now trying for herd immunity, but Israel says no.
 
Welp, looks like Francois Legault is fed up with anti-vaxxers. He is going to charge people who refuse to get vaccinated without a medical exemption a "health fee" though the amount has not yet been announced.


What do you thing? Going too far or is hitting them in the pocket book a legit tactic? One concern in my mind is making sure this money goes straight to healthcare and not into general revenues. If it ends up paying for roads or industrial subsidies or something, it kind of invalidates the idea of it being a health fee.
 
Mendalla said:
Welp, looks like Francois Legault is fed up with anti-vaxxers. He is going to charge people who refuse to get vaccinated without a medical exemption a "health fee" though the amount has not yet been announced.


What do you thing? Going too far or is hitting them in the pocket book a legit tactic? One concern in my mind is making sure this money goes straight to healthcare and not into general revenues. If it ends up paying for roads or industrial subsidies or something, it kind of invalidates the idea of it being a health fee.
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I would rather it see be linked with income, could potential be done with provincial taxes. One of the big complaints I still see in Alberta is that we really haven't done everything possible to get everyone vaccinated. Until everyone can be met where they are, there are barriers for some just in terms of accessibility.
I don't think barriers are that large, as transportation options were made available through the province, but still they are there.

I want to like the idea, and without giving it deep thought I do.
For the Johns and Judiths from Barrhead AB - see ref link below - yes! I am for it.

For the unvaccinated not antivaxxers - I have concerns there.

There is also the problem with medical exemptions. I know someone who had a severe HAE reaction after her first dose. It's not just her decision, her doctor has advised her to not get any more. She doesn't actually qualify for a medical exemption though. I think we need to look into expanding those, and maybe even having tiers. It's one thing to say someone who had a bad reaction can't go to a public swimming pool, it's something else to say they need to pay a fine.

edmonton.ctvnews.ca

'Erratic' vaccine delivery, concerns and conspiracy theories tying up small town Alta. distribution

As the number of Albertans who have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine continues to grow, so too does the discrepancy of that number between Alberta's more rural North Zone and the rest of the province.
edmonton.ctvnews.ca edmonton.ctvnews.ca
 
Mendalla said:
Welp, looks like Francois Legault is fed up with anti-vaxxers. He is going to charge people who refuse to get vaccinated without a medical exemption a "health fee" though the amount has not yet been announced.


What do you thing? Going too far or is hitting them in the pocket book a legit tactic? One concern in my mind is making sure this money goes straight to healthcare and not into general revenues. If it ends up paying for roads or industrial subsidies or something, it kind of invalidates the idea of it being a health fee.
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Going to far in my opinion. There should be other options, like antiviral meds approved and vaccines that are NOT Mrna for those who dont like them. Not everyone gets the flu shot and the flu kills too.
 
Waterfall said:
vaccines that are NOT Mrna for those who dont like them
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Except many of the anti-vaxxers won't take those either. Look at the other vaccines they avoid that have no mRNA option. I hear very few people arguing against just mRNA vaccines. Most of them didn't take AZ or J&J either. And won't take Novavax if/when it is approved.

And I am not sold on Legault's plan, but do think that accommodating people whose only reason for not getting vaxxed is social media fear mongering has its limits. But if we are going to go after someone, maybe suing the fearmongers and the social media who refuse to rein them in would be better.
 
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Mendalla said:
Welp, looks like Francois Legault is fed up with anti-vaxxers. He is going to charge people who refuse to get vaccinated without a medical exemption a "health fee" though the amount has not yet been announced.


What do you thing? Going too far or is hitting them in the pocket book a legit tactic? One concern in my mind is making sure this money goes straight to healthcare and not into general revenues. If it ends up paying for roads or industrial subsidies or something, it kind of invalidates the idea of it being a health fee.
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Going to far. He doesn’t charge smokers despite the high risk of lung Cancer or obese people who have all kind of risk factors. Its also not right to put unvaccinated people in the same pot as anti vaxxers.
And even antivaxxers will be treated in the health system the same as vaccinated people. To be honest, with Omicron, it very much looks like we will all end up getting it sooner or later and therefore also unknowingly spreading it despite precautions. Vaccination helps to keep you as healthy as possible, but it will not stop the spread.
 
Waterfall said:
Going to far in my opinion. There should be other options, like antiviral meds approved and vaccines that are NOT Mrna for those who dont like them. Not everyone gets the flu shot and the flu kills too.
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J&J is available. I'm not sure what the currently supply is like. I think it could be advertised better.
The issue with medications is that still requires PCR testing once pills are approved too. Curretnly the system cannot keep up.
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
And even antivaxxers will be treated in the health system the same as vaccinated people.
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No, people who are unvaccinated actually have looser criteria to PCR testing and antibody treatment due to their high risk factors.
I think that's really shitty but the alternative is to not treat people quickly and then they may be taking up a hospital bed for someone else.
 
ChemGal said:
No, people who are unvaccinated actually have looser criteria to PCR testing and antibody treatment due to their high risk factors.
I think that's really s**tty but the alternative is to not treat people quickly and then they may be taking up a hospital bed for someone else.
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Does anybody who gets a positive PCR test actually get a treatment? Here you are told to isolate and watch your symptoms. What treatment are you talking about?
Besides, people over 50 also get a PCR test here due to increased risk.
I am very happy that our healthcare is not like a health insurance in the US where risk factors or pre-existing conditions would exclude you from treatment.
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
Does anybody who gets a positive PCR test actually get a treatment? Here you are told to isolate and watch your symptoms. What treatment are you talking about?
Besides, people over 50 also get a PCR test here due to increased risk.
I am very happy that our healthcare is not like a health insurance in the US where risk factors or pre-existing conditions would exclude you from treatment.
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Monoclonal antibodies, there are different ones for trying to prevent a severe case and for after already being hospitalized due to COVID. For the former it's Sotrovimab

For vaccinated people in AB it's available to those with cancer/chemotherapy, using systemic immunosuppresants and those who have had organ transplants.

For the unvaccinated it's those as well as people who are pregnant, who have moderate to severe asthma, who have diabetes, etc.

These criteria are also used for PCR testing, along with some other eligible groups due to things like workplace settings, about to start chemotherapy but not on it yet, etc.
 
From the AB government site -
Free PCR testing at AHS Assessment Centres is available for:

  • People with symptoms who may be eligible for Sotrovimab (monocolonal antibody treatment)
  • People with symptoms who are household contacts of a person who works in continuing care or acute care
  • People with symptoms who are pregnant
  • Returning international travellers who become symptomatic within 14 days after their return to Canada
If you do not fall into the above list, you are not eligible for COVID-19 PCR testing from AHS.

otrovimab is for use in patients who have a RT-PCR confirmed COVID-19 infection if they can receive the treatment within five days of symptom onset AND they are:

1. Unvaccinated and are:

  • Age 55 and older
OR

  • Age 18 and older with a pre-existing health condition including
    • diabetes (taking medication for treatment)
    • obesity (BMI >30)
    • chronic kidney disease (estimated glomerular filtration rate, <60 ml per minute per 1.73 m2 of body-surface area)
    • congestive heart failure (New York Heart Association class II, III, or IV)
    • chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, and moderate-to-severe asthma
OR

  • pregnant
OR

2. Immunocompromised, due to one of the following reasons (vaccinated or unvaccinated):

  • have received a transplant
  • is an oncology patients who has received a dose of any IV or oral chemotherapy or other immunosuppressive treatment since December 2020
  • has an inflammatory condition (e.g. rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, inflammatory bowel disease) receiving a dose of any systemic immunosuppressive treatment since December 2020.
 
So yes, I am pissed off a 56 year old who choose to not get vaccinated can get a PCR test and treatment at home while someone with CVID and is vaccinated cannot be tested nor get treatment despite their high risk factor (primary immunodeficiences were not conditions used when studying the drug).

I also understand keeping that 56 year old out of the hospital is good for anyone else who needs hospital treatment.

So unless we say antivaxxers don't get hospital treatment when it's needed it's best to get them treated at home if there is at least another risk factor.

I think we may get to the point where that criteria can't be met for everyone though. PCR testing is already delayed.
 
Are excise taxes for folks like political excess ... Top Guns?

Will they get this ... blindly ... or only the wee people see it? Entitled avarice ...

Does ill health drive medicine to get rich or to resolve the enigma of why the populace is stressed out? Lack of resources at the top produces inhumanity ... thus intelligence falls ... smouldering diabolical myths?

These may list 9 muse and three fates ... some are just not cut out for democracy due to excessive passions!
 
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Maybe threatening to put in big fines is a good idea. Can only get away with that so many times though.
 
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