Covid 19 Vaccine

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Northwind said:
While I do see it as selfishness in most cases, a good mandate makes sure the vaccine (or whatever is mandated) is accessible. Some people say the mRNA vaccine is not accessible to them. Taking a completely black and white, authoritarian approach won't win converts.



I agree
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Imagine a situation where 100 people are stranded for a few months on an island. They have food. 1% have an allergy to peanuts. 10% don't care for peanuts. There are enough meals for all 100. 5% are special meals without peanuts.

How do you distribute the meals? Do people with important roles get to pick if they get a meal without peanuts? Or do you start by making sure the 1% with an allergy are able to eat?
 
ChemGal said:
Imagine a situation where 100 people are stranded for a few months on an island. They have food. 1% have an allergy to peanuts. 10% don't care for peanuts. There are enough meals for all 100. 5% are special meals without peanuts.

How do you distribute the meals? Do people with important roles get to pick if they get a meal without peanuts? Or do you start by making sure the 1% with an allergy are able to eat?
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Picky, picky on the care of the other ... alternately if those have special skills ... well that too went down the hole ...

That is said to be dark ... as those taken over by pure emotions are somewhat blinded! The lost thrown under the carpet ... maybe a tapestry!

Well woven fabrication if truth and virtue denied ... how lies are formed ... to obscure truth!

The weaving of the slinky one into the story for those that work at the unravelling all the collective lies ... Asclepios is off base ... because the lie cuts both ways ... Caduceus did you see that swing?
 
I don't mind giving health care workers priority access, but when it comes to picking and choosing, I think anyone who medically needs one vs. the other should be ensured they will have what is needed. I also think the federal government should have just gone ahead with J&J earlier than this even if provinces said it wasn't necessary, as when so much varies in terms of what's in it, dosing, etc. variety is typically going to increase accessibility.
 
What if we erred on the side of grace? Are we supposed to be vengeful and punish choices we don't like. Vaccines are no longer a scarce commodity. I don't see how the peanut allergy meals analogy applies here
 
The bottom line is we want all health care workers to be vaccinated. J&J potentially will help accomplish that.
 
Northwind said:
What if we erred on the side of grace? Are we supposed to be vengeful and punish choices we don't like. Vaccines are no longer a scarce commodity. I don't see how the peanut allergy meals analogy applies here
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It applies because some people can't get what has been available. All I'm saying is for those who haven't had a choice give them priority- then open it up.

Just like the peanuts, I would give those with the allergy the safe meals first. Then for those who don't like them those could be made available.

It sounds like here people support the idea we may not have J&J vaccines for those who can't get mRNA ones because we allow those who could get mRNA ones to choose not to - plus we are giving them priority.
 
Northwind said:
What if we erred on the side of grace? Are we supposed to be vengeful and punish choices we don't like. Vaccines are no longer a scarce commodity. I don't see how the peanut allergy meals analogy applies here
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Hiw is making sure everyone has access to at least 1 type of vaccine that is safe for them vengeful?
 
ChemGal said:
Hiw is making sure everyone has access to at least 1 type of vaccine that is safe for them vengeful?
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By saying health workers made their choices and therefore should not have access to this vaccine you sound vengeful. "Take it or leave it" I'm also thinking of our FB discussion and I suppose that colours my perspective.

We don't know why the approximately 2% of workers who aren't vaccinated made their decision. I am comfortable if they choose the J&J because it brings us closer to having all health workers vaccinated
 
Northwind said:
By saying health workers made their choices and therefore should not have access to this vaccine you sound vengeful. "Take it or leave it" I'm also thinking of our FB discussion and I suppose that colours my perspective.

We don't know why the approximately 2% of workers who aren't vaccinated made their decision. I am comfortable if they choose the J&J because it brings us closer to having all health workers vaccinated
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That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying when it's a ridiculous choice - they get the leftovers when one is in short supply. Those where it isn't a choice make sure they aren't relying on hopefully there's enough leftovers.

If anything is vengeful it's not giving access to those with medical reasons access first. And for something they rarely have control over
 
@Northwind I don't get the vengeful thing from Facebook either. I think a women and baby with serious health issues and others not getting treatment for non Covid conditions tragic. Not f***ing wonderful news that there was an improvement in serious condition when the condition wouldn't have occurred if 2 adults just followed the advice they have been told for months.

I think the most vengeful thing I have said was with Trump when he had Covid .i don't remember exactly what. I did hope for him to have some long term, not necessarily permanent annoyance health issues from it that tends to be brushed off. Like if he lost his sense of taste and smell for a year. May have said I wouldn't be all that upset if he died, although I wasn't hoping for that.

So sure my attitude about Trump, vengeful. The woman who had a Csection I'm mad about, especially because so many are missing medical procedures right now. I didn't want for her to be harmed. So i don't follow through with the vengeful. What I do see is a lot of other people being hurtful to those with medical problems, both with attitudes and with decisions that harm them further.
 
ChemGal said:
Not f***ing wonderful news that there was an improvement in serious condition when the condition wouldn't have occurred if 2 adults just followed the advice they have been told for months.
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Why is it not a good thing the woman is improving and may survive? She's a person who is loved. She paid dearly for her terrible decision.

I've expressed my opinion, I'm not going to continue
 
Northwind said:
Why is it not a good thing the woman is improving and may survive? She's a person who is loved. She paid dearly for her terrible decision.

I've expressed my opinion, I'm not going to continue
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You expressed your opinion and then put a horrible one onto me and somehow it's also vengeful when I think a need should trump a choice with prioritization policies.

I never said it was a bad thing she survived.
 
Northwind said:
You said her improvement should not be celebrated.
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Not quite what I said, although I see how it could be taken that way. You brought up do I think she deserves to die before that though and then followed that up with it sounds like I hopes she dies.

Am I judgmental? Yes. I empathize way more with people who are harmed due to nothing they have done or negative consequences weren't reasonably foreseeable. There are very few I wish harm on though.
 
As for treatment? I hope everyone is able to get good medical treatment if they want it.
When we have to pick and chhose who is getting it though. I am for prioritizing people who are vaccinated or unvaccinated for good reason.

I also don't want the ridiculous unvaccinated choiced people to spread covid to others in hospital.

With no limits? Fully staffed and equipped hospitals for both groups with covid positives people separated well from others. When we have to resort to field hospitals and triage the way I would prioritize people would look very different from the current protocols. I would hope it was needed.

I'm not even pro vaccinate no matter what. I think it sucks we're in a situation that vaccinating is so important. I think most of wish COVID wasn't a problem. Would have also been great if it could have been contained., and the only people who really needed to be vaccinated were healthcare workers in covid positive wards plus family if they wished to have in room visits.
 
Do rotten tomatoes teach us anything about what to put in your basket case? (sometimes known as in sane psyche, a*sol that works transparently and thus you don't see it ... but they're out there; contemplation)
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
I am still wondering how the news that Johnson/Johnson is now given to healthcare workers allows the conclusion that it isn’t given to others…..
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It's the prioritization aspect. I think we need to ensure those who are limited in what's suitable can get what is good for them. It's an issue with two things. Getting them doses timely, they are already 6+ months behind with access, they shouldn't be pushed back further with access. And with limited doses making sure they have a dose.
 
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