Covid 19 Vaccine

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Waterfall said:
He probably didnt try to buy them because Canada doesnt just use those types of syringes but the US does. And Canada was just recently made aware from the US that using the dead locks gives you more doses per vial.
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Such is the status quo when saving capital ... folks do not represent capital ... they are disposable ...
 
Ritafee said:
I asked the question seriously ... what exactly is in this experimental injection that makes it different from a flu shot?
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It's hard to take your question seriously for many reasons. I will though answer the question seriously.

A quick Google search (my only source for research today) gives many links. This is one of the first.

Fact check: COVID-19 and influenza vaccines too different to be directly compared

Social media users have been sharing a meme which seeks to undermine COVID-19 vaccinations by casting doubt on whether it is possible to make a 95% effective coronavirus vaccine in 10 months, when the flu vaccine has been worked on for 70 years and is still only 40% effective. However, the two vaccines are different and cannot be directly compared. First, the vaccines are targeting different viruses as, although the flu and COVID-19 share some common symptoms, they are caused by different viruses. Second, the flu vaccine has to combat several influenza viruses which mutate whereas the COVID-19 vaccine targets just one virus. Third, there has been an unprecedented global and collaborative effort to advance the development of the COVID-19 vaccine.
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The article explains these points further if you're interested.
 
Northwind said:
The article explains these points further if you're interested.
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Thanks for that. Actual 'ingredient' differences were what I was after ... specifically with reference to 'gene therapy' as opposed to 'vaccination'. It is all quite confusing to me given that I never understood the 'science' behind vaccination in the first place and now this ... I'll keep looking and listening.
 
This is the kind of information you get when you look up mRNA vaccines.

New Approach to Vaccines​

mRNA vaccines are a new type of vaccine to protect against infectious diseases. To trigger an immune response, many vaccines put a weakened or inactivated germ into our bodies. Not mRNA vaccines. Instead, they teach our cells how to make a protein—or even just a piece of a protein—that triggers an immune response inside our bodies. That immune response, which produces antibodies, is what protects us from getting infected if the real virus enters our bodies.
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From Understanding mRNA vaccines
 
Right, flue vaccine (as the shot, flumist is different) gives the protein directly. Having that in the body allows the few random antibodies that have a bit of affinity for it to attach, that results in the cells that produced those antibodies to replicate, and some mutations in the DNA the codes for the antibodies occurs as those cells replicate, repeat over and over and we get antibodies that bind quite well to the protein..

The COVID vaccines that are being used require extra steps by the body. The mRNA must enter cells. Inside the cell, that mRNA is then used to produce the protein - this is how our proteins are made in general, enzymes connect to the mRNA and link amino acids together based on the code of the mRNA to form proteins. The protein exits the cell - then the step above happen to get antibodies that bind well to the protein. Our cells do not duplicate the mRNA, what gets injected is what we will have at the max. As the cells that had the mRNA in them die off, the protein levels decline.
 
Northwind said:
From Understanding mRNA vaccines
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Thanks ... that linked to Emergency Use Authorization for Vaccines Explained | FDA and is what I was really looking for:

How will vaccine recipients be informed about the benefits and risks of any vaccine that receives an EUA?​

FDA must ensure that recipients of the vaccine under an EUA are informed, to the extent practicable given the applicable circumstances, that FDA has authorized the emergency use of the vaccine, of the known and potential benefits and risks, the extent to which such benefits and risks are unknown, that they have the option to accept or refuse the vaccine, and of any available alternatives to the product. Typically, this information is communicated in a patient “fact sheet.” The FDA posts these fact sheets on our website.

Partners – will use multiple existing vaccine safety monitoring systems to monitor COVID-19 vaccines in the post-authorization/approval period. Some of these systems are the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), the Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD), the Biologics Effectiveness and Safety (BEST) Initiative, and Medicare claims data.

​

 
Is the fact that the body has do more with the mRNA vaccine a reason why they think that someone with a compromized immune system might not be able to mount an immune response?
 
Ritafee said:
FDA must ensure that recipients of the vaccine under an EUA are informed, to the extent practicable given the applicable circumstances, that FDA has authorized the emergency use of the vaccine, of the known and potential benefits and risks, the extent to which such benefits and risks are unknown, that they have the option to accept or refuse the vaccine, and of any available alternatives to the product. Typically, this information is communicated in a patient “fact sheet.” The FDA posts these fact sheets on our website.
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This isn't unusual. Professionals have to ensure their clients/patients are able to give informed consent. That's based on their ability to understand and their being given the proper information. I was in a profession that didn't touch anyone or inject anything into anyone. I was still required to ensure informed consent was given. Whenever we get prescriptions, or even off the shelf meds, we are given the list of every single possible side effect, including the ones that only happened once. Vaccines would require both informed consent and the list of possible side effects. That's good practice. I sure would not want to be given anything without having an explanation of what that involves. I was skeptical about the covid vaccine for a variety of reasons. As I've learned more, I realize this can be kind of cool in the sense of the research that has actually gone into it and the fact it has something new that could be groundbreaking. Of course that's scary too. While I am interested in getting the vaccine, I will only do so with the blessing of my doctor. She is a research nerd and quite brilliant. I am sure she has been doing her research because her patients are likely asking about this every day. She is also part of a topnotch team.
 
Northwind said:
Is the fact that the body has do more with the mRNA vaccine a reason why they think that someone with a compromized immune system might not be able to mount an immune response?
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No, I think it's just studies. Generally, we're good at making proteins as they are part of almost everything in the body - enzymes are proteins, everything we need to function is a protein. There was the discussion about one of the babies with a mitochondrial disorder where the machinery to go from mRNA to protein wasn't fully functional - someone like them shouldn't get an mRNA vaccine I think is fairly safe to say.

Sometimes it's just easier to get some antibodies to proteins that work and the right dosing/timing can vary. It more depends on the vaccine if we compare injecting protein vs. injecting mRNA when it comes to those with immune issues. There may be factors I am unaware of those, like we know people feel unwell in general just because of the delivery system for the mRNA - the fats, and it's assumed that's what's causing allergic reactions, so it's possible if the immune system (which is complex and involves way more than antibodies) is turned on elsewhere and less 'focused' on antibodies it's possible. I haven't seen anything that suggests that though.
With the mRNA vaccine there is a difference in timing - we aren't getting all the protein the antibodies will bind to all at once. It's being made over time by the cells that took up the mRNA. That timing could be a factor, I think if anything that would be better for people who are slower to produce antibodies.

I think right now the big reason to say we don't know is just lack of data.
 
Oh I will put out, in the past the big concern we always had for vaccines was the live ones - those have either RNA (that is capable of going to DNA due to extra stuff that's encoded) or DNA that does duplicate, and allows the virus to then go onto new cells. For those with healthy immune systems, no biggie, they are weak viruses, they get killed off. For those with compromised immune systems, many more cells end up infected.
 
Northwind said:
This isn't unusual. Professionals have to ensure their clients/patients are able to give informed consent. That's based on their ability to understand and their being given the proper information. I was in a profession that didn't touch anyone or inject anything into anyone. I was still required to ensure informed consent was given. Whenever we get prescriptions, or even off the shelf meds, we are given the list of every single possible side effect, including the ones that only happened once. Vaccines would require both informed consent and the list of possible side effects. That's good practice. I sure would not want to be given anything without having an explanation of what that involves. I was skeptical about the covid vaccine for a variety of reasons. As I've learned more, I realize this can be kind of cool in the sense of the research that has actually gone into it and the fact it has something new that could be groundbreaking. Of course that's scary too. While I am interested in getting the vaccine, I will only do so with the blessing of my doctor. She is a research nerd and quite brilliant. I am sure she has been doing her research because her patients are likely asking about this every day. She is also part of a topnotch team.
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Oh another thing too, I have been seeing recommendations for people to get down to the lowest doses that are reasonable for their conditions of immunosuppressants. Obviously changing doses isn't going to work for all, but some can do it for a while. With the steroid injection I got, if it was just a normal vaccination like a flu shot that I was planning on getting shortly after, I would probably be recommended to wait a few weeks to get the vaccine.
 
Ritafee said:
Thanks ... that linked to Emergency Use Authorization for Vaccines Explained | FDA and is what I was really looking for:

How will vaccine recipients be informed about the benefits and risks of any vaccine that receives an EUA?​

FDA must ensure that recipients of the vaccine under an EUA are informed, to the extent practicable given the applicable circumstances, that FDA has authorized the emergency use of the vaccine, of the known and potential benefits and risks, the extent to which such benefits and risks are unknown, that they have the option to accept or refuse the vaccine, and of any available alternatives to the product. Typically, this information is communicated in a patient “fact sheet.” The FDA posts these fact sheets on our website.

Partners – will use multiple existing vaccine safety monitoring systems to monitor COVID-19 vaccines in the post-authorization/approval period. Some of these systems are the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), the Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD), the Biologics Effectiveness and Safety (BEST) Initiative, and Medicare claims data.

​

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The Canadian monographs have a decent amount of information I find. More detailed than the typical info given prior to consent for those who want it.
 
ChemGal said:
Oh another thing too, I have been seeing recommendations for people to get down to the lowest doses that are reasonable for their conditions of immunosuppressants. Obviously changing doses isn't going to work for all, but some can do it for a while. With the steroid injection I got, if it was just a normal vaccination like a flu shot that I was planning on getting shortly after, I would probably be recommended to wait a few weeks to get the vaccine.
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I'm going to ask my doctor if taking a break from my medication would be a good idea or feasible. It is the primary reason my immune system is compromised. I suspect I wouldn't have to take too long a break. It is a med that I take for 21 days then rest for 7. She will know the answer to that.
 
Northwind said:
I'm going to ask my doctor if taking a break from my medication would be a good idea or feasible. It is the primary reason my immune system is compromised. I suspect I wouldn't have to take too long a break. It is a med that I take for 21 days then rest for 7. She will know the answer to that.
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Hopefully you can get a good scheduling between the 2 doses of vaccine and what makes the most sense with the medication.
 
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