Covid 19 Vaccine

[EasternOrthodox]

I think it's really difficult to estimate right now. With healthcare workers it does seem like many who were hesitant are stepping up after seeing others getting it. I do feel a bit better as people with HAE have gotten it without attacks (although they tend to be less effected, well enough to work in healthcare, don't normally have issues with vaccines, etc). For me with the risk/benefit, if the risks are similar with other vaccines a few days of HAE attacks of their typical severity is worth it as the COVID risk itself is so high. If people who don't normally have issues with vaccines were having issues, then I would be much more concerned what it would be like for me, I plan to keep checking in.

The big issue will likely be with other illnesses - communities where vaccination rates are low. Hopefully most of the general population will be better, we had great flu vaccine turnout this year.

Yes, Let’s hope most people will drop their opposition. The ones I know of are all young. But maybe their parents and grandparents will get it.

 

[Mendalla]

The government WORLD dropped the ball and all they have to offer is wear your mask and be locked down

Sorry, but Trudeau, and we, are not alone in this. The fact is, the scientists and those who support their work like Bill Gates have been predicting a pandemic for years, maybe even decades. After all, history is full of them. And, yet, country after country got caught with its collective pants down. The cuts that left us vulnerable predate Trudeau in many cases and the lack of any effort to prepare for the next one after SARS and H1N1 is as much on the Conservatives heads as the Liberals. Yes, he made some critical tactical errors like relying too much on the vaccine joint venture with China and not trying harder to leverage existing domestic infrastructure. But many strategic errors were made that long predate him, like letting our pharmaceutical industry languish into a bunch of generic manufacturers with no real capacity for R&D for original work. Not setting up and maintaining a national stockpile of PPE and other emergency health supplies and resources was another that was recommended after SARS (ie. long before Trudeau) and did not happen under Harper or Trudeau.

Frankly, I don't think any Canadian party would have handled this well. Our political culture is too focussed on the short term, the 4 years until the next election, to take long-range threats like the next pandemic seriously. And our societal culture is too focussed on being individualistic narcissists to make the sacrifices necessary to prepare society for the next threat, like a quarantine law with actual teeth or actually paying more in taxes to fund things like a national PPE stockpile and a national pandemic monitoring system.

In 20 or 30 years, a new pandemic virus will appear and the cycle will repeat regardless of who is power UNLESS we actually learn from this and make some serious, necessary changes, not just to our laws but to how we view things. We need to look past the next election and, indeed, past our own lifetimes.

So while I think Trudeau is a terrible PM overall and am glad I did not vote Liberal in either election, that's not really about COVID and a lot of the problems people find with his handling of it would have been made by Scheer, O'Toole, Singh, and even May. Our political culture is not really geared to handling this kind of crisis, which means we are probably screwed because the effects of climate change are going to make this look like a walk in the park, and are going to play out over decades, not 4 years. We need someone who takes the long view and we may need to accept things like longer political terms and more centralization of power to deal with it because the current short-sighted, short term outlook is not working.

/RANT

Footnote: Oh, and Gates and those others who predicted the pandemic have, of course, been rewarded with accusations of causing the pandemic for self-benefit. That right there gives me very little confidence in our society's ability to be ready for the next global catastrophe.

 

[Luce NDs]

Sorry, but Trudeau, and we, are not alone in this. The fact is, the scientists and those who support their work like Bill Gates have been predicting a pandemic for years, maybe even decades. After all, history is full of them. And, yet, country after country got caught with its collective pants down. The cuts that left us vulnerable predate Trudeau in many cases and the lack of any effort to prepare for the next one after SARS and H1N1 is as much on the Conservatives heads as the Liberals. Yes, he made some critical tactical errors like relying too much on the vaccine joint venture with China and not trying harder to leverage existing domestic infrastructure. But many strategic errors were made that long predate him, like letting our pharmaceutical industry languish into a bunch of generic manufacturers with no real capacity for R&D for original work. Not setting up and maintaining a national stockpile of PPE and other emergency health supplies and resources was another that was recommended after SARS (ie. long before Trudeau) and did not happen under Harper or Trudeau.

Frankly, I don't think any Canadian party would have handled this well. Our political culture is too focussed on the short term, the 4 years until the next election, to take long-range threats like the next pandemic seriously. And our societal culture is too focussed on being individualistic narcissists to make the sacrifices necessary to prepare society for the next threat, like a quarantine law with actual teeth or actually paying more in taxes to fund things like a national PPE stockpile and a national pandemic monitoring system.

In 20 or 30 years, a new pandemic virus will appear and the cycle will repeat regardless of who is power UNLESS we actually learn from this and make some serious, necessary changes, not just to our laws but to how we view things. We need to look past the next election and, indeed, past our own lifetimes.

So while I think Trudeau is a terrible PM overall and am glad I did not vote Liberal in either election, that's not really about COVID and a lot of the problems people find with his handling of it would have been made by Scheer, O'Toole, Singh, and even May. Our political culture is not really geared to handling this kind of crisis, which means we are probably screwed because the effects of climate change are going to make this look like a walk in the park, and are going to play out over decades, not 4 years. We need someone who takes the long view and we may need to accept things like longer political terms and more centralization of power to deal with it because the current short-sighted, short term outlook is not working.

/RANT

Footnote: Oh, and Gates and those others who predicted the pandemic have, of course, been rewarded with accusations of causing the pandemic for self-benefit. That right there gives me very little confidence in our society's ability to be ready for the next global catastrophe.

Sounds like a reasonable rant ...

Yet! Can this be acceptable to a society that only accepts matters of the heart ... as free wills meant to run freely? This is so impressed on us as to be sacrosanct!

Then polity is said to be a parallel for extremism ... or as cognate in some nations as radicalization ... not to mention where radicalization of reason results on all reasonable intelligence being out there ... at arm's length.

When I was working in a service career ... management told me if I had something intelligent to say ... I shouldn't ... thus that too went down!

The pits as that pans out ...

Did you know that "pan" once meant all ... like a concept of something being for the better good of all ... a deterrent to oligarchs that would like to control all that is base and common to common Johns. This may translate into avarice ... a distant cool Zen sensation!

This may erupt as a spectra of expressions ... like omigod, Omaha, or even Ochman ... untranslatable to some lines of digestion! So chit being subtle ... and we knows chit ... because that is the goal according to ideals of emotional overtaking! Like AD overtaking Alla Din ... altered chaos ... within the realm of anarchy! Few grasp Ide ... as a root Cos ... Moe logic form ... out there ...

Can a mortal overtly care for intellect in a realm that despises alien intelligence?

Could point to the Stranger of Gall A' Leis ... bile-ish and black ... resembles "phi" lost ...

 

[ChemGal]

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

Some info about a possible explanation for the reactions.
It would be nice if they could do something like scratch tests on the people who have had reactions, with each component of the vaccine in isolation. Very small sample size, and it might not show allergies, especially with it not being all IgE but I know I would be happy to do such testing if I had a reaction like that.

 

[Carolla]

Frankly, I don't think any Canadian party would have handled this well. Our political culture is too focussed on the short term, the 4 years until the next election, to take long-range threats like the next pandemic seriously. And our societal culture is too focussed on being individualistic narcissists to make the sacrifices necessary to prepare society for the next threat, like a quarantine law with actual teeth or actually paying more in taxes to fund things like a national PPE stockpile and a national pandemic monitoring system.

Well stated (as usual!) and I fully agree. All the hindsight blaming is becoming so tedious to me - and harmful to health, both mental and physical.

 

[Luce NDs]

Hindsight is great for learning ... yet some are opposed to learning, knowledge and reading intuit!

 

[Northwind]

Well stated (as usual!) and I fully agree. All the hindsight blaming is becoming so tedious to me - and harmful to health, both mental and physical.

Not to mention the alternative was Scheer. He couldn't even win an election that should have been easy for him to win. I'd hate to think of how he would have responded to the pandemic

 

[paradox3]

Well stated (as usual!) and I fully agree. All the hindsight blaming is becoming so tedious to me - and harmful to health, both mental and physical.

Yes there's lots of fingerpointing taking place. Ford was blustering about the federal government and airports today.

And some of the shaming gets directed at citizens, too.

 

[Mendalla]

And some of the shaming gets directed at citizens, too.

To be fair, some citizens aren't exactly going out of their away to avoid doing shameful things. We had another party that violated current restrictions on the weekend. But, yeah, those of who are doing things right deserve some recognition, I think.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

As for Ford. He's a Ford. Y'all knew his Fordisms would come out eventually. But he was elected premier. That's what you get when you elect a Ford premier. Not as bad as Trump but bad enough you could see trouble coming. Yet, Ontario elected the guy.

 

[Northwind]

I'm disappointed in Ford. He seemed to be showing leadership skills at the beginning of this. They didn't seem to last. But then, I never was a Ford fan and was willing to be pleasantly surprised. Alas

 

[ChemGal]

I'm disappointed in Ford. He seemed to be showing leadership skills at the beginning of this. They didn't seem to last. But then, I never was a Ford fan and was willing to be pleasantly surprised. Alas

I don't know if it was Ford but I thought what happened in ON was a mess in the spring. Kenney did surprising well then minus sticking with the healthcare cuts. The downfall here was this didn't kill enough Boomers to keep him caring as numbers went up when school was back in.

 

[Northwind]

I don't know if it was Ford but I thought what happened in ON was a mess in the spring.

My memory may be based on the superficial. My Ford-hating friend in Toronto was surprisingly pleased with him during that time, at least for awhile

The downfall here was this didn't kill enough Boomers to keep him caring as numbers went up when school was back in.

Are you looking to have Boomers killed off?

 

[ChemGal]

My memory may be based on the superficial. My Ford-hating friend in Toronto was surprisingly pleased with him during that time, at least for awhile



Are you looking to have Boomers killed off?

Ontario was doing odd things like ticketing people for walking their dog.
I think Kenney was concerned early on that this would have a severe impact on Boomers. When it was mostly 'just old people ' dying he stopped caring. I think the numbers we have had this fall have been severe enough I would have put in restrictions earlier. Only Boomers I would want to kill off would have been someone Kenney was close to in the summer, not that I would want anyone to die but that 1 death would have likely lead to the prevention of many more along with serious long term health problems.

 

[Lastpointe]

So Fords dust up with Trudeau about the airport got a strange response

he is complaining about the 64,000 people arriving weekly to Pearson.

the response? The federal government is working on a pilot project to test international travellers

huh? A pilot project to test travelers? After 11 months we are trying to figure out how to test passengers?

what the hell?

 

[Waterfall]

So Fords dust up with Trudeau about the airport got a strange response

he is complaining about the 64,000 people arriving weekly to Pearson.

the response? The federal government is working on a pilot project to test international travellers

huh? A pilot project to test travelers? After 11 months we are trying to figure out how to test passengers?

what the hell?

Agree....what the hell.
Also if the UK virus arrives, or has already, how would we know?

 

[Waterfall]

Lets sèe if Ford follows through with testing, if there are tests available.

 

[Mendalla]

Agree....what the hell.
Also if the UK virus arrives, or has already, how would we know?

That likely takes labwork, I think. A basic PCR test may not distinguish strains, though I have not looked into it. Probably someone would need to pull some random samples for more detailed analysis.

 

[Luce NDs]

Boomers have to go ... it is the rule with all old and ancient cognates!

Dear Lord I'm ready to leave this mess to those that believe they know how to deal with it ... although their belief may be flawed!

Thus the crack in the eternal Wahl ... from a blow, boomer or Big Bang?

Makes no sense? Isn't that the scheme of those into anarchy and against chaos in the pan? Flat out collapse (nemesis)!

Alas ... those without sight of the hynd ... are blind tow it ... in drag!

 

[Waterfall]

It's not just the airports that will bring contagions, our factories are hotbeds for Covid too.....they should also be closed for 28 days.