Class war?

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PilgrimsProgress said:
This comment of mine was a general one -it wasn't specifically addressing you........ What I'm trying to get at is that there are lots of folk working hard on very low wages in menial jobs.. when the job ends -often due to technological changes - they don't have many choices available to them that pay a decent wage. Further education requires money -and also ability. (We like to think that everyone has the same ability - but I don't believe it's true.)
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Further education does not always require personal money, maybe that's where I need to go into some of the information I provided earlier.
I know someone with a degree who had a good paying job, currently has household income and is getting more education that is government-funded due to the unemployment rate in his field.

Everyone doesn't have the same ability, but I mentioned disability earlier and I think beyond that everyone has the capacity for skilled employment.
 

'Everyone doesn't have the same ability, but I mentioned disability earlier and I think beyond that everyone has the capacity for skilled employment.'

Dreaming doesn't make it so......... I know binaries are popular - but the reality is there's more than just disability/ability......
 
I agree with PP, here. For whatever reason, some people's abilities are very limited. There's a real nice guy in our congregation who is an unskilled general farmhand and will never be able to do anything more complicated than that. I believe he is entitled to a 'living wage' - which is what minimum wage should be. Enough to minimally house (a room, or a tiny house, or a bachelor flat, etc.), clothe, feed a decent diet, provide a little entertainment. Enough to float you a little over the poverty line.
 
Perhaps if we took equality and equity with a 10% differential ... the hands wouldn't get so heavily greased?

Tis an aspiration only a dream ascribed by some centered states of mind ... all shot full of holes ... by Sam ... δ' heh*m'n showing the lady of the Shadow what can be done to plug it ... is religion you can't say the wholly word ... tis a hairy situation of gorse ... thus go L' phi 'n ... a game of holes in det urf ...
 
BetteTheRed said:
I agree with PP, here. For whatever reason, some people's abilities are very limited. There's a real nice guy in our congregation who is an unskilled general farmhand and will never be able to do anything more complicated than that. I believe he is entitled to a 'living wage' - which is what minimum wage should be. Enough to minimally house (a room, or a tiny house, or a bachelor flat, etc.), clothe, feed a decent diet, provide a little entertainment. Enough to float you a little over the poverty line.
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And you don't think he has any type of disability?
 
No, he has poor intellectual abilities, but he's strong as a small ox, takes clear/simple directions well, happy fellow, always wanting to be of assistance. Why would his hard and necessary labour be worth less than the poverty line?
 
And why when someone retires and is able to receive pension and has investments that are

hidden assets, I would say, is eligble for low income supplement? Is this fair?
 
BetteTheRed said:
No, he has poor intellectual abilities, but he's strong as a small ox, takes clear/simple directions well, happy fellow, always wanting to be of assistance. Why would his hard and necessary labour be worth less than the poverty line?
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Sounds like he likely does have a disability.
 
If you have money and there are supplements ... people try and get them because they are there ... there are moral roles that are offered by great powers.

Some will say there are no corruptive influences from higher powers ... but these are widely distributed in all kinds of classes ... like ... some strong intellects are found in crooks. Does it make a social difference? Take a guess ...
 
ChemGal said:
Sounds like he likely does have a disability.
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If you insist that there is just a matter of "ability" and "disability" - then I will argue that everyone has some ability -and everyone has some disability...... Bette, imo, is correct -everyone deserves a modest living standard.

There is a huge range in folk's intellectual abilities -just as there are in physical abilities. I'll never be able to run a hundred metres in ten seconds or become a brain surgeon - but I was capable of playing a reasonable game of tennis and being a clerk in the Public Service.
 
PilgrimsProgress said:
If you insist that there is just a matter of "ability" and "disability" - then I will argue that everyone has some ability -and everyone has some disability...... Bette, imo, is correct -everyone deserves a modest living standard.

There is a huge range in folk's intellectual abilities -just as there are in physical abilities. I'll never be able to run a hundred metres in ten seconds or become a brain surgeon - but I was capable of playing a reasonable game of tennis and being a clerk in the Public Service.
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I haven't suggested anywhere that people don't deserve a modest living standard.
I think most people are capable of gaining some type of skill. If not, I would be shocked if they don't have some type of disability that can fit within at least some of the current classification systems.
 
But chemgal, there are menial jobs that need doing. People that you might describe as "disabled", like Jeb, are very capable of doing them. Do they not deserve a living wage for their labour, just because someone considers it "unskilled"?
 
BetteTheRed said:
But chemgal, there are menial jobs that need doing. People that you might describe as "disabled", like Jeb, are very capable of doing them. Do they not deserve a living wage for their labour, just because someone considers it "unskilled"?
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Why do you think I don't think he deserves a living wage?
 
Because you implied above that "minimum wage" needn't be a liveable wage. That people should have skills to get past minimum wage.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Because you implied above that "minimum wage" needn't be a liveable wage. That people should have skills to get past minimum wage.
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For those who fit within a norm or exceptional skill set and ability, yes. It's why I pointed out exceptions in my post.
 
I hear socialism praised lots - give everyone what they need. The other aspect of it often goes forgotten - take from what people are capable of providing.

I don't think we need to go to extremes with the taking, but I think there's a certain level that's needed.
 
I will also add that the majority of people with disabilities are capable of acquiring and utilizing a skill with employment too.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Because you implied above that "minimum wage" needn't be a liveable wage. That people should have skills to get past minimum wage.
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I looked back at what I wrote, I never even said that those who don't fall within the exceptions shouldn't get a liveable wage if doing a 'minimal' level job. I think a fair bit of that depends on lots of factors, if it's possible to pay everyone a living wage regardless of what they do no matter their capabilies, that's great, it's just not always possible.
 
OK, but why can't we just pay a worker who performs a needed service, whether skilled or un-skilled (such as those categories are - brute force is often a "skill" occasionally) a living wage? If the work is important, it should be paid, right?
 
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