Bible Study Thread: Luke

[blackbelt1961]

Okay? How so?

In my circles sola scriptura, and scripture interpreting itself, are used interchangeably. What is the difference?

For one you can read all post on how it's been explained that it's a form of hermeneutics and if you like you can also start a new thread on it instead of the derailing this one and we can all join in on your new thread

 

[DaisyJane]

Perhaps we start a new thread.

I am not being snarky here, or trying to be obtuse. I have read your comments thus far. I am genuinely interested. I read hermeneutic philosophy extensively and I am not aware of how sola scriptura and Scripture interpreting itself are viewed differently. It could be (likely?) that this is an area of philosophy of which I am unfamiliar. It could be that the mentors with which I associate view the two as similar. I'd like to hear more.

 

[blackbelt1961]

Perhaps we start a new thread.

I am not being snarky here, or trying to be obtuse. I have read your comments thus far. I am genuinely interested. I read hermeneutic philosophy extensively and I am not aware of how sola scriptura and Scripture interpreting itself are viewed differently. It could be (likely?) that this is an area of philosophy of which I am unfamiliar. It could be that the mentors with which I associate view the two as similar. I'd like to hear more.

Basically

solo scriptura deals with infallibility

Scripture interpreting itself deals with ways of interpretation of passages

But if you want to go more in depth start a thread and we can discuss it

 

[paradox3]

Sounds like a really good idea for a spin-off thread . . . I, too, would be interested in the discussion.

 

[DaisyJane]

Perhaps we should start a new thread.

I have a theological reference in front to me. Sola scriptura is NOT about infallibility. It is about Scripture as the only source of Scriptural interpretation.

 

[DaisyJane]

I will start a new thread.

 

[unsafe]

paradox3 -------Just replying to your post about me -----

Found this ---maybe this will clear it up for you what I believe about who the Bible is for ----you have every right to believe as you wish -and so do I ---


Christianity
Welcome to The Christianity Blog hosted by Pastor Michael Salman. Pastor Michael is a Pastor of the Christian Church. Bible devotions, illustrations and words of wisdom will come through this blog. We pray this will help you grow in Christ.

Christianity: Is The Bible For Non-Believers?
Is The Bible For Non-Believers?

I have been preaching the gospel and reaching out to sinners since I first came to know Christ. I have preached from East Coast to West Coast and have reached many for Christ. I have seen the way my preaching and evangelizing methods have changed over the years. During counseling sessions and talking with people about their problems it is very easy for me to apply the Bible to their life.

The question I really thought about is whether the Bible is for un-believers?
I have heard some of my contemporaries, while preaching in the streets, say something like this, "Jesus has called us to live a holy life." "You need to stop drinking because this is wrong." "God loves you and has promised to bless you." and other statements like this. We try to apply the Bible to unbelievers.
First of all don't take me wrong. I came to Christ from reading the Bible. I am not saying that God does not use the Bible to bring unbelievers to Him. He does! Yet, is the Bible for unbelievers?

1) We must first understand that the promises of God were written to HIS PEOPLE who are HIS CHILDREN. That there is no way you can get the promises of God unless you are HIS CHILDREN.

2) Contrary to the world and spiritualist, we are not all children of God. Only those who are in Christ Jesus are Children of God.

3) The letters by the Apostles Paul, Peter and John and the letters of James and Jude were written to Believers not unbelievers. The instructions and promises were written to believers.

4) The Gospels were written to everyone and anyone.

5) The promises of Christ were given to those who accept HIM. The whole purpose of the Gospel is to call sinners to repentance and accept Jesus Christ.


The number one goal of every Christian when dealing with unbelievers is to preach the Gospel and bring them to Christ through the Gospel, not to spout off promises and such. The call to live a Holy Life and do what is right is to believers not unbelievers.

God is not calling to sinners to live holy or "DO WHAT IS RIGHT", rather God is calling sinners to Repent of their sins and Accept and Him and then and only then they can do what is right and live Holy and then Partake of the promises of God!

unsafe says
So if you don't agree with this then that is your right --just like it is my right to believe and agree with what this pastor is saying ----

Now back to your bible study -----Luke 6

 

[paradox3]

Luke 6:43-45 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
A Tree and Its Fruit
43 “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit; 44 for each tree is known by its own fruit. Figs are not gathered from thorns, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush. 45 The good person out of the good treasure of the heart produces good, and the evil person out of evil treasure produces evil; for it is out of the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaks.

Luke 6:43-45 The Message (MSG)
Work the Words into Your Life
43-45 “You don’t get wormy apples off a healthy tree, nor good apples off a diseased tree. The health of the apple tells the health of the tree. You must begin with your own life-giving lives. It’s who you are, not what you say and do, that counts. Your true being brims over into true words and deeds.

 

[paradox3]

Reflection Luke 6: 43 - 45

So much to unpack in a few short verses. Rather than attempt a summary, I have posted two versions of the text.

A tree is known by its fruit. This makes sense, right? In the case of human beings the fruit is our words and our deeds. I really like the line "figs are not gathered from thorns, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush." It has me thinking about all the times we keep hoping for something different from someone in our lives.

The text would suggest nothing is ever going to change & the sensible thing to do would be to stop hoping to harvest those grapes from a bramble bush. But are people never capable of change? This seems like a very pessimistic view of human nature.

Good comes from good and evil comes from evil. This, too, makes sense to me. But are human beings really this much of a dichotomy?

"Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks," scripture tells us today. Yes, I believe we have a basic character or inner self that presents itself over and over.

Lots to ponder here.

 

[unsafe]

Verse 45 --Give the context of this scripture ------It is a Heart issue -----AMP Bible here

45 The [intrinsically] good man produces what is good and honorable and moral out of the good treasure [stored] in his heart; and the[intrinsically] evil man produces what is wicked and depraved out of the evil [in his heart]; for his mouth speaks from the overflow of his heart.

unsafe says
The Pharisees and scribes are a good example of this ---They claimed to be with God but ignored what Jesus was trying to tell them the wrongs they were doing and because they had hardened their hearts against Jesus and His Teachings they spoke what was in their Heart which was anger --resentment and disrespect ----The Pharisees and scribes allowed their emotions to get the best of them and they bore bad fruit from the bad root which was in their Heart -----

To bear Good Fruit there needs to be a Heart change ------For out of your Mouth the Heart will speak ------

To Have a Heart Change Now one must Receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour -----Jesus is the only way for the bad tree to become a good tree and Produce Good Fruit -----

The Sin Nature that we are all Born with is very strong to the craving of it Nature and without help to over come we will keep producing the bad Fruit -----

unsafe posting From Mark 7

Mark 7:21-22 (AMP)
21 For from within, [that is] out the heart of men, come base and malevolent thoughts and schemes, acts of sexual immorality, thefts, murders, adulteries,22 acts of greed and covetousness, wickedness, deceit, unrestrained conduct, envy and jealousy, slander and profanity, arrogance and self-righteousness and foolishness (poor judgment).


We have been given Free Choice -----we can change our Heart if we want to -----and God tells us How -----


unsafe says --so what exactly is a Hardened Heart ----this is the Greek word ------

4641. sklérokardia ►
Strong's Concordance
sklérokardia: hardness of heart

Definition: hardness of heart
Usage: hardness of heart, perverseness, obstinacy.

HELPS Word-studies
4641 sklērokardía (from 4642 /sklērós, "hard because dry" and 2588 /kardía, "heart") – properly, hardness of heart because of a lack of moisture (lubricant); an obstinate, hard heart which lacks the oil of the Holy Spirit and hence implies rebellion – i.e someone refusing to be receptive (obedient) to God's inworking of faith. See 4642 (sklēros).


unsafe says ---This statement here-----i.e someone refusing to be receptive (obedient) to God's inworking of faith ------is Important because this Faith only comes by way of Reading or Hearing God's Word ----God's Word Inbirths Faith in us as we spend time in His Word -----

unsafe posting here
https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/hardening-hardness-of-heart.html

The heart, in effect, is the whole person in all of his or her distinctive human activity as a thinking, planning, willing, feeling, worshiping, socially interacting being. And, of course, when the person is not living according to God's will, it is the heart that is described as darkened, rebellious, callous, unfeeling, or idolatrous. It is within the heart that God works; hence the human heart may be tender and soft or as hard as stone

Hardness of heart thus describes a negative condition in which the person ignores, spurns, or rejects the gracious offer of God to be a part of his or her life.


unsafe says ----
Todays Scripture can also be applied to False Prophets who corrupt their Church because their hearts are unchanged and they Preach false Doctrine to their Church and lead them into the danger of eternal punishment ----

Foe me Personally this is the worst ---it is one thing to reject a Change of Heart for one's self --it is another to drag a whole Church into keeping their hardened Hearts in the Dark and dragging and deceiving them because the one teaching has Rejected the Truth of Scripture ---Talk about self righteousness and arrogance --well for me this is the worst -----

 

[Carolla]

Yes - lots to ponder here!

It has me thinking about all the times we keep hoping for something different from someone in our lives.

I really like this thought of yours - it's so common for us to do this, or at least I have seen it, and done it. Once one can reconcile the nature of the tree & the fruit, it gets easier I think to manage/modify expectations and thus improve relationships. It's a common thing to spend a lot of energy being exasperated at the other, based on our own expectations.

The text would suggest nothing is ever going to change & the sensible thing to do would be to stop hoping to harvest those grapes from a bramble bush. But are people never capable of change? This seems like a very pessimistic view of human nature.

I think it's more simplistic than pessimistic - and definitely dichotomous. I'm thinking about how we don't really know what 'tree' somebody else started as - we can only see what they are when we encounter them. Perhaps they have developed their thorns & brambles from their struggles in life, from trauma encountered, illness or injustice suffered. This is kind of where the metaphor breaks down a bit for me. The passage does occur in a section where Luke is writing about judging others (and ourselves) ... so I must ponder that more.

from The Message passage - Your true being brims over into true words and deeds.

While I generally agree with this, I do know at times in my life I have spoken & acted in ways that do not reflect my whole core nature - but certainly did reflect an aspect of myself and my own pain at those challenging moments in time. This helps me cut some slack to others when I encounter behaviour in them that I would see as uncharacteristic.

 

[paradox3]

Summary: Luke 6: 46 - 49

Jesus goes on to say, "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not do what I tell you?"

He speaks of those who come to him, hear his words & act on them. This is compared to building a house on a foundation of rock. When a flood rises, it cannot shake this house.

Those who hear and do not act are like building a house without a foundation. When the river bursts against it, this house falls immediately and great is its ruin.

 

[paradox3]

Reflection: Luke 6: 46 - 49

Reading these few verses surprised me this morning, because they don't say what I was expecting them to say.

I was thinking of the hymn, How Firm a Foundation. It begins:

"How firm a foundation, you servants of God,
Is laid for your faith in God's excellent word."

But Jesus is saying here that both His words and acting on them form the foundation needed to weather those floods. Interesting that He did not say hearing the words and believing them was what counts. He stresses action or behavior in this message. Faith must be lived out, I think Jesus is saying in today's text.

And I am chuckling about my memory of the hymn. I must know it from childhood, because here are the words I remember:

"How firm a foundation, ye saints of the Lord,
Is laid for your faith in His excellent word."

 

[unsafe]

Quote from Above Post ----
Interesting that He did not say hearing the words and believing them was what counts. He stresses action or behavior in this message. Faith must be lived out, I think Jesus is saying in today's text.


unsafe says ---Just to clarify -----Faith is belief in what you are acting out -----and there is only one Faith that produces good Fruit and that is Faith that comes from the Belief in what God says in His word Jesus spoke what He was told to Speak by His Father -----you act cause you believe ---you trust and you have confidence in what you are acting on and This Faith always Gives God the Glory ---Not Us Humans for the action that is taken ---


Greek word for Bible Faith

Strong's Concordance
pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Definition: faith, faithfulness
Usage: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

Just to clarify --Human Instinctual Faith is not the same as God's inbirthing Faith that comes from hearing and reading His Word -----

read all about God's Bible Faith here

Strong's Greek: 4102. πίστις (pistis) -- faith, faithfulness

The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).

 

[unsafe]

correction ---that should be Human intellectual Faith ---in the above post

 

[GordW]

But Jesus is saying here that both His words and acting on them form the foundation needed to weather those floods. Interesting that He did not say hearing the words and believing them was what counts. He stresses action or behavior in this message. Faith must be lived out, I think Jesus is saying in today's text.

Reminds me of a couple of pieces from the letter of James:
But be doers of the word, and not merely hearers who deceive themselves. For if any are hearers of the word and not doers, they are like those who look at themselves in a mirror; for they look at themselves and, on going away, immediately forget what they were like. But those who look into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and persevere, being not hearers who forget but doers who act—they will be blessed in their doing (James 1:22-25)

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill,” and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. (JAmes 2:14-18)

It is worth noting that Martin Luther heartily disliked JAmes (called it an epistle of straw). I think Luther would see in these two passages examples of works righteousness, which he found to be problematic. What I see in these passages and in the piece from Luke is an acknowledgement that unless our faith plays out in our life it is meaningless.

 

[BetteTheRed]

And I'm gonna add that "finger action", like typing out your beliefs in an on-line forum, is not the kind of action that Luke and James have in mind...

 

[paradox3]

The Explorer (pre CGIT) motto: Be doers of the word and not hearers only.

 

[unsafe]

This is the scripture for today -----

Luke 6:46-49 (AMP)
A Secure Foundation
46 “Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not practice what I tell you?47 Everyone who comes to Me and listens to My words and obeys them, I will show you whom he is like: 48 he is like a [far-sighted, practical, and sensible] man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and yet could not shake it, because it had been securely built and founded on the rock.
49 But the one who has [merely] heard and has not practiced [what I say], is like a [foolish] man who built a house on the ground without any foundation, and the torrent burst against it; and it immediately collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great.”


unsafe says -----This Scripture is talking about building a secure Foundation in Christ so that when the Storms comes we remain Standing as we have our Faith Grounded and Rooted in God's Word -----verse 47 gives us what we are to do ------

47 Everyone who comes to Me and listens to My words and obeys them,


unsafe says ---So we see we have to Come to Jesus and we have to Listen to His Words and Obey Them -----then it describes who the person is like who does verse 47 ------We see in verse 48 -------

48 he is like a [far-sighted, practical, and sensible] man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and yet could not shake it, because it had been securely built and founded on the rock.


unsafe says ----So then we see what happens when we do not Come to Jesus ---Listen intently to His Word and Obey Them -----in verse 49

49 But the one who has [merely] heard and has not practiced [what I say], is like a [foolish] man who built a house on the ground without any foundation, and the torrent burst against it; and it immediately collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great.”


unsafe says ---This scripture is talking more about getting one self Grounded and Rooted in their Bible Faith so that when the Storms of Life come the person can withstand the turmoil and chaos by and through their being Grounded and Rooted in relying on Jesus and His Word of Faith so that we carry out the Right Action which will provide us with that Perfect Peace which surpasses all Human Understanding when all is not well in our lives ------


The Parable of the Sower ----Gives us our Foundation ----God's word is the Seed ----Faith is the manifestation and right action by keeping the weeds out makes us stable and secure when the Storms come -----

 

[paradox3]

unsafe says ---This scripture is talking more about getting one self Grounded and Rooted in their Bible Faith so that when the Storms of Life come the person can withstand the turmoil and chaos by and through their being Grounded and Rooted in relying on Jesus and His Word of Faith so that we carry out the Right Action which will provide us with that Perfect Peace which surpasses all Human Understanding when all is not well in our lives ------

I appreciate that this is your faith conviction, unsafe. But when Jesus was alive there was no Bible Faith in existence other than the Hebrew scriptures. You know this, right?