Bible Study Thread: Luke

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
Status
Not open for further replies.
On one of the other bible study threads, we speculated about why the fishermen would have been so willing to leave their boats behind and follow Jesus. And there was a related thread started by @GordW

The way Luke tells the story, Jesus had a crowd pressing in on him when he went out in the boat and addressed the people on the shore. In this scenario, it might have been an honor for Peter and the others to be asked to follow Him. Peter, who has confessed to Jesus that he is a sinner, is nonetheless invited to follow Him
 
Jae said:
A thing I find interesting paradox2 is that Simon Peter, a professional fisher with his own fishing boat and quite possibly crew, took fishing advice from a carpenter's son.
Click to expand...
So many interesting details in a short little story!

It seems that they had not ventured out into deep enough water. But why hadn't they, if they were experienced fishermen?

Yes, it's curious. I have heard many metaphorical explanations of this story. But what about on a practical level? Why did Peter need fishing advice?
 
paradox3 said:
So many interesting details in a short little story!

It seems that they had not ventured out into deep enough water. But why hadn't they, if they were experienced fishermen?

Yes, it's curious. I have heard many metaphorical explanations of this story. But what about on a practical level? Why did Peter need fishing advice?
Click to expand...

Here is where my belief that actual miracles were taking place kicks in. I think Peter had done the best a skilled fisher could do - on a natural level. I believe Jesus operates here supernaturally.
 
Jae said:
Here is where my belief that actual miracles were taking place kicks in. I think Peter had done the best a skilled fisher could do - on a natural level. I believe Jesus operates here supernaturally.
Click to expand...
Seems to me a lot of these bible stories have a least three possible interpretations: a logical/natural one, a supernatural/ miraculous one and a metaphorical one.

What could be a logical explanation for this one? Let's see . . . maybe Peter's confidence had been shaken for some reason and he just needed encouragement to get back out in the deep water.

A miraculous explanation? Jesus could intervene supernaturally and make the fish appear in the nets.

A metaphorical one? The deeper water is sometimes viewed symbolically. . . the need to challenge oneself and take risks, perhaps.
 
paradox3 said:
Seems to me a lot of these bible stories have a least three possible interpretations: a logical/natural one, a supernatural/ miraculous one and a metaphorical one.

What could be a logical explanation for this one? Let's see . . . maybe Peter's confidence had been shaken for some reason and he just needed encouragement to get back out in the deep water.

A miraculous explanation? Jesus could intervene supernaturally and make the fish appear in the nets.

A metaphorical one? The deeper water is sometimes viewed symbolically. . . the need to challenge oneself and take risks, perhaps.
Click to expand...

Sounds about right paradox3, though I dislike the teaming of "logical" with "natural." I would just call it natural.
 
Jae said:
Sounds about right paradox3, though I dislike the teaming of "logical" with "natural." I would just call it natural.
Click to expand...
Okay, that works. too. We don't want to imply there is something illogical about the alternative explanations.
 
What kind of a story do we think Luke was writing here when he has Jesus telling Peter to go out into the deeper water?

@Jae favors the supernatural explanation.

I am so familiar with metaphorical takes on all the fishing stories that I went there first in my mind. But I wonder if a simpler explanation might make the most sense. For some reason, Peter has lost confidence in himself and is calling himself a sinner. Along comes Jesus saying, "Put out into the deep water and let down your nets for a catch". (v. 4) And he does.

Is the meaning of this story that we can trust Jesus? That he sees our potential and calls us where we need to go? But here I am getting metaphorical again. Most of us do not need encouragement to literally fish in deeper water. :whistle:
 
Jae said:
You've divided off this section in an interesting way paradox3, since Luke 5:12-13 is just the beginning of a certain account.
Click to expand...
Yes, you are correct. Somehow I got the verses wrong. . . I meant to say verses 1 - 11.
 
I would think a metaphorical take on the story would speak to us more than a literal reading. There are likely not too many of us who would go fishing on the Sea of Galilee...
 
Redbaron said:
I would think a metaphorical take on the story would speak to us more than a literal reading. There are likely not too many of us who would go fishing on the Sea of Galilee...
Click to expand...
Can it be both? A story with both a natural explanation and a deeper meaning?
 
So we see in Luke 5 1-11 that Jesus doesn't call People who have Theological training like the Pharisees ---Jesus is calling another group of People to be His Disciples ----

unsafe says -----This Should be a Red Flag Here --to those who think that you need To attend a Grad school of theology to be formally equipped to be a Disciple of Jesus -----

Jesus chose unorthodox people here to follow Him -----Jesus was choosing a different community to represent Him He was choosing Fishermen --tax collectors and other to follow Him -----Jesus wanted to be able to work God into these peoples Lives --that is my view ---this is showing that God has to be present in our Lives first --then we need to Trust Him and Let Him transform our Lives to do His Will --

The Pharisees already thought they were Greater than anyone else ---- but Jesus came to prove to them they are not all that -----

So may times in our lives we think we have it altogether and God says --Oh Ya ----you have many steps to complete before you will ever be who I want you to be -----and The Pharisees are a perfect example of that -----

This shows that He does not Shun Sinners but in Fact invites them to meet God and His healing of Forgiveness -----

We see and understand that Jesus ways are not the ways of the Jewish leaders -----

unsafe says --------I personally believe that Jesus wanted to go deep water here is to fully submerge the net ----- Full submersion in water represented the moment of conversion at that time in the Bible ----

Jesus by doing a Natural Miracle ----Having the net full of Fish ---He actually turns this into what His Mission was going to be ----Fishers Of Men ---for Conversion

unsafe says
We need to notice that when Jesus says to Simon let down your net -----Simon Obeys -----5 Simon answered, “Master, we’ve worked hard all night and haven’t caught anything.F)'> But because you say so, I will let down the nets.”

Simon is Putting His Faith in Jesus and does what He Tells Him to do and he manifests a big Catch ------


Jesus getting into Simon Peter's boat represents the 2 sides of theology in my view GOD AND THE WORLD -----Simon represents the Sinner who feels he is not worthy to experience God and His power -----and this is seen in verse 6-8 ---

6 When they had done so, they caught such a large number of fish that their nets began to break.G)'> 7 So they signaled their partners in the other boat to come and help them, and they came and filled both boats so full that they began to sink.

8 When Simon Peter saw this, he fell at Jesus’ knees and said, “Go away from me, Lord; I am a sinful man!”


unsafe says ----This Scripture is important here cause it shows us that having a big catch can led to a disaster ----the Boat was sinking and that puts lives in danger ------So our Stuff in this world may help us here but we are not always going to be Here forever --- and the Spiritual side of out eternal life is more important than a big catch here in this Physical world which can in fact make our lives a hazard if we are not careful to keep in Check our Greed for more than we can handle ------- which can cause our boat to sink -------

Lots of good Spiritual lessons for us humans in this little bit -------



peter%2Bdepart%2Bfrom%2Bme%2B2.jpg
 
Last edited:
unsafe said:
unsafe says -----This Should be a Red Flag Here --to those who think that you need To attend a Grad school of theology to be formally equipped to be a Disciple of Jesus -----
Click to expand...

I am not sure anyone here believes that, though. A member of a church is just as much a disciple as a minister, at least in Protestant churches. The minister's education is about equipping them to help guide and teach, not making them a "disciple". And, ideally, part of their role is to share their learning, not horde it or use it to elevate themselves.
 
Mendalla ----your quote ------I am not sure anyone here believes that, though. A member of a church is just as much a disciple as a minister, at least in Protestant churches. The minister's education is about equipping them to help guide and teach, not making them a "disciple". And, ideally, part of their role is to share their learning, not horde it or use it to elevate themselves.

unsafe says ---you can believe that if you want to ---but Ministers are Disciples of God ---Any One who Has the Holy Spirit is a Disciple of God and is a Minister of God -----The 12 Disciples did guide --they Preached the Good News --- the Disciples were Ministers but only after they received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ----Jesus did not start His Ministry till the Holy Spirit was on His ----

Scripture is clear that the Holy Spirit is the only one who can teach us the Spiritual things of God ----No worldly training can do that -----

A person without the Holy Spirit can only get the Logos written word from the Bible -----the Holy Spirit gives one the Rhema word --the living word -----these schools can teach you the academics of the Bible ----the history etc ----but it will not give you the Spiritual meaning of what the scripture is saying ------


I have no training what so ever in any theology ----all I have is the Holy Spirit to guide me and a lot of Hunger and Thirst to learn what the scripture is saying by asking direction from the Holy spirit as I read ----just saying ----


Without The Holy Spirit in us we are away from God and that is according to Scripture Not Me ------

Greek word for Minister here ----

1249 /diákonos ("ministry") in the NT usually refers to the Lord inspiring His servants to carry out His plan for His people – i.e. as His "minister" (like a deacon serving Him in a local church).


Anyone with the Holy Spirit indwelling in them will always be a Disciple of God Maturing in His Word and His Ways until we die ------

unsafe says ---I have been doing Just Fine with relying on the Holy Spirit ---so I will stick with That Thanks ------:angel:


1-john-2_27.jpg
 
unsafe said:
Any One who Has the Holy Spirit is a Disciple of God and is a Minister of God
Click to expand...

Right, and many churches acknowledge that by having laity actively involved in all aspects of church governance and even worship, the UCCan being one of them. Really, as I understand it, the only thing laity cannot do in the UCCan is offer communion. They can preach, they can lead prayer, they can lead study groups, and so on. I myself planned and preached services in the UCCan during my late teens and early twenties.

An ordained minister is really just another disciple who has chosen to focus their energies on doing those things and thereby providing more time and expertise to the tasks than a lay person who also has to juggle an outside career. I would probably even agree with you to the point where I would say, yes, an ordained minister is optional for a Christian (or other) church. A church does not need one as long as the laity have the time and energy to do the work. But in my case, oddly, that comes from my UU background where lay leadership is the norm in many congregations and ministers are as much advisors and supports as leaders.

Could the Holy Spirit not be the source of the "call" to seek ordination and be guiding ordained ministers in their education so that the church has the strong leadership it needs to help it pursue the Spirit's call?

Footnote: Once again, I am talking mainly about Protestantism. Obviously, the "priestly" churches like RC and EO require priests due to their beliefs about the authority of the church and clergy.
 
Last edited:
And we are getting off topic again so if @paradox3 wishes, I will happily move this to a thread on ministry in Church Life or something.
 
paradox3 said:
What kind of a story do we think Luke was writing here when he has Jesus telling Peter to go out into the deeper water?

@Jae favors the supernatural explanation.

I am so familiar with metaphorical takes on all the fishing stories that I went there first in my mind. But I wonder if a simpler explanation might make the most sense. For some reason, Peter has lost confidence in himself and is calling himself a sinner. Along comes Jesus saying, "Put out into the deep water and let down your nets for a catch". (v. 4) And he does.

Is the meaning of this story that we can trust Jesus? That he sees our potential and calls us where we need to go? But here I am getting metaphorical again. Most of us do not need encouragement to literally fish in deeper water. :whistle:
Click to expand...
Perhaps issues of fatigue (they worked all night for naught), disappointment/failure, fear of not being able to provide for their loved ones & their community (as fishermen did) and a message from Jesus of persistence & patience, not giving up too soon, that doing things just a little differently can bring different results, to not be afraid of success when it comes. That they lay down everything and walked away from their loved ones & community to follow Jesus is intriguing - I wonder what it would take today for people to do that?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top