Are we still able to debate fairly?

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
Status
Not open for further replies.
WhyCzar said:
Climate Clap Trap?

The fact that none of the self-appointed net zero zealots practice what they preach while insisting on foisting taxes on everyone else as a pretext to seize control over every trivial detail of our lives, while pretending to be "saving the planet".
Click to expand...

Then where do we file the information that a 2018 Nobel Prize in economics went to a pair of American economists talking about the economics of climate change and what sort of taxes change behaviours towards lower/zero carbon.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/nobel-prize-economics-1.4854371
 
I think we could argue that some simple/simplistic "solutions" are rubbish without throwing the dilemma of human-caused climate irregularities into the trash as well, commonly described as "throwing the baby out with the bath water".

A problem is a fairly discrete entity. What anthropogenic climate change comprises is a "dilemma" - an intersection of individual problems, the solutions to which often contradict and exacerbate the dilemma as a whole.
 
Laureate William Nordhaus’ research claims that the most efficient remedy for problems caused by greenhouse gas emissions is a global scheme of carbon taxes uniformly imposed on all countries according to his simulations.

I have not read the the Nordhaus research but have heard that it also says that if all countries do not follow it, the countries who do will be disproportionately taxed and it could actually have a negative climate effect.
 
Northwind said:
I'm curious @WhyCzar and @Delightful Life, what is your view about the IRS system?

When I see people focusing on the good that came from them it feels like they are diminishing the bad.

Is that what you're doing or have I got that wrong.

Help me to understand.
Click to expand...
@WhyCzar answered it quite well I think :3

I was specifically writing aboot the 'loops school and the alleged unmarked graves (please see places like the Tyee, Wikipedia, and Indiginous Watchdog site). A kerfuffle should have been caused when the truth aboot the schools came oot. Instead it seemed to come oot around the alleged graves

And I see that Graves book is being attempted to be cancelled by fellow Wokists?

So in addition to you agreeing we have to be careful, we also know we can be on the same side, and still attack each other? Why and what can be done aboot that?

That is something that also adds to this not being able to talk with each other well?

I am glad you are able to talk still. That shows real character :3
 
"Alleged graves" have been part of Indigenous folklore for the generations of people who were incarcerated in these places. Yes, incarcerated. It was the law that children had to go there. They were given substandard food/nutrition, a very basic education and often were physically and sexually abused. Children died of TB and other things. When they died they were not sent home as they should have been.

Since when is it okay to have graves at a school?

There is nothing alleged about the graves. There may be question about how many, but not that they exist.
 
BetteTheRed said:
I think we could argue that some simple/simplistic "solutions" are rubbish without throwing the dilemma of human-caused climate irregularities into the trash as well, commonly described as "throwing the baby out with the bath water".

A problem is a fairly discrete entity. What anthropogenic climate change comprises is a "dilemma" - an intersection of individual problems, the solutions to which often contradict and exacerbate the dilemma as a whole.
Click to expand...
Indeed
Things like Global Weirding is insanely complex. And I agree that the solutions will have to use different thinking than was used for the thinking used to discern the problems. We might even have to adopt some indiginous metaphysics, like acknowledging spirits and non human people and even that it is also important to think the right thoughts, be aware of our thoughts and even to grok how some thoughts are people

I have issues with putting Global Weirding under the CSJ megaumbrella. It isn't just an oppressed people issue and dividing people isn't the best way to do it imho

The issue with it in this thread is it is part of the leading to not helping with communication? Various groups and govts and orgs want things to happen a certain way. The UN is waaay too big of a bureaucracy (like the WHO) and much too slow...we know that various gov'ts have been manipulating us, to change our Oventon Window and so forth...

We have people being people and demonizing and othering whole swathes of people...calling them Deniers or such...even when they aren't...like Bjorn Lomborg...

Corey Doctoraw has shown because of markets, any Carbon Tax and such we end up with is the shittiest one possible...

I also feel for those countries who spent all those resources on following the Paris Agreements, when there was no possible way to meet them, as shewn by the I believe it was the targrts were based on a 50% error estimation of CO2?

I have hope that we will solve this :3

(another name I have come across for all these is the Polycrisis)
 
Northwind said:
"Alleged graves" have been part of Indigenous folklore for the generations of people who were incarcerated in these places. Yes, incarcerated. It was the law that children had to go there. They were given substandard food/nutrition, a very basic education and often were physically and sexually abused. Children died of TB and other things. When they died they were not sent home as they should have been.

Since when is it okay to have graves at a school?

There is nothing alleged about the graves. There may be question about how many, but not that they exist.
Click to expand...
There is. I am using various Indiginous info as well. They are potential until actually exhumed.

So are these various Indiginous colonialist as well?
 
The Tyee mentioned in May of 2023 of the Potential Graves there

Are they insensitive or Colonialist?

Is the original anthropologist who found these sites wrong for stating they are probable burials or targets of interest?

Is she Colonialist?

Were the Tk'emlúps te Secwèpemc chief Colonialist for mentioning potential burial sites?

See?

As far as I know they haven't been exhumed. With various proper Indiginous authorities wanting to and being prepared
 
To remind aboot the book's attempt to be cancelled by fellow Wokists

A Monty Python Take on the Quesnel Book Banning | IRSRG

A Monty Python take on the Quesnel book banning Hymie Rubenstein April 9, 2024 There have been growing calls for Quesnel, B.C. Mayor Ron Paull to resign following the discovery that his wife had been handing out free copies of Grave Error: How the Media Misled Us (and the Truth about...
irsrg.ca irsrg.ca

(So it isn't just a simple Colonialist/Not Colonialist thang...we Wokists can't agree on even this...and this contributes IMHO to not being able to talk with each other...even Obama begged us not to engage in this Circular Firing Squad)
 
Northwind said:
How would they be colonialist?



No I don't see.
Click to expand...
All those actual examples are people saying alleged graves.

So if you have no problem with them

You should have no issue with my writing "alleged graves"

Because they are similar

Now do you grok?
 
Last edited:
Since the confirmation of community knowledge of suspected unmarked graves in Kamloops, First Nations across Canada have located evidence of the remains of more than 2,300 children in suspected unmarked graves at or near former residential schools and Indian hospitals, according to the report.
Click to expand...

Denialism and disrespect exacerbate the pain and trauma of survivors and community members trying to grieve and search the grave sites, Murray said.

Citing international experts, Murray called denialism "the last step in genocide."

"Denialism is violence. Denialism is calculated. Denialism is harmful. Denialism is hate," Murray said.
Click to expand...

From: Residential School Denialism.

If you read this article you will see they say "suspected graves", not alleged. Big difference. They also have good reasons to suspect there are graves.

See also : Truth and Reconciliation chair says final report marks start of 'new era'

Senator Murray Sinclair is worth a listen. I had the great honour of hearing him in person in Whitehorse. He's a wise man.
 
Northwind said:
From: Residential School Denialism.

If you read this article you will see they say "suspected graves", not alleged. Big difference. They also have good reasons to suspect there are graves.

See also : Truth and Reconciliation chair says final report marks start of 'new era'

Senator Murray Sinclair is worth a listen. I had the great honour of hearing him in person in Whitehorse. He's a wise man.
Click to expand...
I don't see a big difference?

And all those words I quoted above I can give you sources. Those people said yhe things they said. They said other things as well.

We are now talking aboot you and your preferences and I see you dragging other concepts in (I.hope you aren't saying the Tyee, CBC and the Tk'emlúps te Secwèpemc chief isn't a Rez Skool denialist or are cobtributing to them?)

Suspected is same as alleged and potential. All are "we will hold judgement as to real.or unreal until shown"

I am not trying to win here. I hope you aren't either. And I hope you are able to communicate well and not other or denonize no matter what
 
Northwind said:
There is evidence to believe they are real. I stand by my statement.
Click to expand...
then your statement also goes toward all those people i stated, including the Tyee

ty for letting us know how you truly feel

you are illustrating what i am writing aboot quite well. i think you would fit in with those trying to cancel that Graves book.

Now I don't want to waste too much of what time I have left on Earth on this relatively pointless thing



LETS PARTY!!!



what is this wonderful substance we are breathing? and what is this wonderful stuff we are walking on? what are these vibrations coming through our face holes? omg! magic
 
I come late to this discussion, but have read many posts here.
How much do we actually know about how many children died at these schools and how they died?
Did these children have other realistic options to get a decent school education?
 
Delightful Life said:
We are now talking aboot you and your preferences and I see you dragging other concepts in (I.hope you aren't saying the Tyee, CBC and the Tk'emlúps te Secwèpemc chief isn't a Rez Skool denialist or are cobtributing to them?)
Click to expand...

I am not saying those people are denying residential schools and their effects. I'm saying that's what you appear to be doing.

You used the term "kerfuffle" in reference to this. You've also used other terms in the name of humour or satire or whatever. That is incredibly disrespectful.

Imagine that as a six year old you're visiting friends on Vancouver Island and you're from Saskatchewan. The RCMP come to take you to the institution on the island because it's the law. You and your mother protest that you are not from the island, etc. That doesn't matter. It's the law. So you get there. Your beautiful long hair is cut. You're stripped naked and scrubbed clean. Maybe given some delousing treatments. You are there for awhile and make a few friends. One night, your best friend is gravely ill. They remove him from his bed and that's the last you see of him. The stories are that he died. Then the time comes when you leave the facility. You go home only to find your community is deep in grieving. Your mother has found comfort in the bottle because that's the only way she can cope with the grief of losing her child(ren) Fast forward all these years. How do you imagine it would be to see someone calling the graves "alleged" and using the term "kerfuffle". It wouldn't feel good.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top