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Northwind said:
What would you suggest would be an appropriate response to genocide?
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I was writing specifically aboot the Kamloops School claim.

Not any other residential schools actual graves etc etc?

That is one reason we have to be very careful

Until we see actual human remains at the Kamloops School, they aren't human remains

We can feel bad etc at all the other mistreatment etc?

That is why Truth is important. It is so easy to lose that

Trudeau made wrong claims

He contributed to mass moral panic

Tell me how the book goes? :3
 
I think denialism can be a hindrance to truth, and so do many others.
Apparently some denialists decided to trespass and try to dig up the graves to see if there were any bodies. This is highly disrespectful just to serve a curiosity hat amounts to a suspicion. If it ever did pan out there are no bodies there then we face that head on, but right now there is no evidence to suggest that.
Also digging up a suspected grave at night without permissions is totally disrespectful of the tribes ceremonial way of doing such a thing if the bodies are discovered.
I don't think many of us would want our ancestors dug up willy nilly by unsupervised criminals, which is what it amounts to.
When the time comes for proof or not....the denialists will have to wait IMO.
 
Delightful Life said:
I was writing specifically aboot the Kamloops School claim
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So, what are you specifically saying about the Kamloops institution?

I admit extreme bias. I've listened to many survivors, including some who attended that facility. A few were sent there from Fort Nelson First Nations. Look on the map to see how far FN is from Kamloops. Imagine what it might be like to be sent so far from home.

One man said it was easy to see who among the children had attended the school during summers at home. The school kids sat rigidly in a line while the other 10 year olds were regular rangy kids. Hearing that man tell me that was sad.

I have a friend who is a member of Kamloops FN. He spoke of family members who attended the school. He and his wife spoke of the basement there. My friend did not attend that school. Still, you can feel his pain when we were near it. We were on the school property at this point. While they appreciate that is being used in a way that might be restorative, it's still hard to see it. I think both would like it to be demolished.

So, tall me what you believe is the truth here.
 
This research site is dedicated to Residential Schools in Canada for anyone interested.

irsrg.ca

My Life in Two Indian Residential Schools | IRSRG

The past several months have seen a slowly developing re-assessment of the numerous claims concerning the discovery of unmarked (or even “mass”) graves of missing children at former Indian Residential Schools. The most famous of these claims was the Tk’emlúps te Secwépemc (Kamloops) First...
irsrg.ca irsrg.ca

"The commitment of the IRSRG is to uphold the highest standards of research, evidence, and logic in the pursuit of the truth, wherever that may lead. Most importantly, we believe only through truth can there be reconciliation."
 
I haven't read the complete article you mentioned above. I will do that later.

It mentioned that the Indigenous language was spoken. That was his experience. What about the children who we forbidden from speaking their language. I've met several people who were forbidden from speaking Cree at Kamloops residential school. These were people from Fort Nelson First Nation. FNFN. Fort Nelson is at Mile 300 of the Alaska Highway. That's 300 miles from Dawson Creek's mile zero. It is 1,329 kms from FN to Kamloops or a 14 and a half hour drive today. The Alaska Highway wasn't fully paved back in the 50's and 60's so the trip would have taken longer. I have no idea how they transported children from northern BC to Kamloops. It was a long way from home.

Another person spoke of her time in residential school at Sturgeon Lake AB. Apparently there were two schools close to each other. I believe one was for younger children and the other for older children. This person was unable to talk to their sibling even though they could see them in the next school yard.

Then there's the abuse stories I've heard.

I could go on.
 
I've been thinking of this discussion and my reactions to the idea that there was a good side to residential schools. I'm finding it hard to see this. While some people may have benefitted somehow from this institution, the damages were far more severe. The IRS system was a blight on our history and its effects are still being felt.

We can and must do better.

As I've said, I'm not very objective about this after hearing stories from people who attended these facilities, and after knowing people from communities severely impacted.

Thankfully there's some good Indigenous leadership that is helping change the colonialism message. Reconciliation won't happen overnight. Hopefully it will happen. One day.
 
Northwind said:
I'm finding it hard to see this.
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I am, as well, as a big picture. That said, a long time ago, before we had a lot of discussions about the issue, Tomson Highway (playright, composer, etc.) gave a talk to an English class I was taking. He said that without IRS, he would not have been exposed to classical music and he thought that would have been a great loss to him as a person.
 
"Thankfully there's some good Indigenous leadership that is helping change the colonialism message." - Northwind

If native people use this opportunity to show that they are capable of seeing beyond hurts and invasions and rampant disregard for our lives and future, we show our neighbours that the heart of us was never broken, that we were never conquered, that we have not and will never be assimilated, and that we have retained our dignity despite everything that might have happened to us.

Tell all of the stories. The good along with the bad. Lead by example and use this opportunity to create harmony, to create a more balanced future for all of us.

Such is honesty. Such is truth. Such is the foundation of forgiveness and such are the bones of reconciliation.

Richard Wagamese
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I'm curious @WhyCzar and @Delightful Life, what is your view about the IRS system?

When I see people focusing on the good that came from them it feels like they are diminishing the bad.

Is that what you're doing or have I got that wrong.

Help me to understand.
 
"There's lots of good information out there to balance the "truth" - Northwind

Before engaging in this thread I was not aware that there was a good "truth" story side to the IRS.

In no way am I trying to make a case for the good outweighing the bad.

What I am discovering that it was not all bad.
"All we hear is the negative stuff, nobody's interested in the positive, the joy in that school. Nine of the happiest years of my life I spent it at that school. I learned your language, for God's sake. Have you learned my language? No, so who's the privileged one and who is underprivileged?

"You may have heard stories from 7,000 witnesses in the process that were negative," he adds. "But what you haven't heard are the 7,000 reports that were positive stories.

www.huffpost.com

Cree Storyteller Has Surprisingly Positive Take On Residential Schools

"There are many very successful people today that went to those schools and have brilliant careers and are very functional people, very happy people like myself."
www.huffpost.com www.huffpost.com
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No one should ignore the need to call out abuses in human life, wherever found.

Balancing the truth about IRS would not suppress the positive testimonies either.

I will read more tomorrow about Senator Lynn Beyak who has been vilified and demonized for collecting letters of praise for Canada’s residential schools from Native people who loved, and clearly benefited from, their school experience.

“Letters to Senator Beyak .. Uncensored,” in C2C Journal (April 16, 2018) by Toronto Journalist and author Robert MacBain
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Lynn Bayek is a very controversial figure with her racist remarks and claims to be Metis because her parents adopted a Metis child.
 
Thanks for the heads up on Lynn Bayek Waterfall.

I see that she retired (with a full pension?).

In her official letter of retirement to the Senate Monday, Beyak defended both her 2017 speech and her choice to share the letters she received.

She wrote she was attacked by “those with an agenda for power and control, and an aversion to honest debate,” with the help of some in the media.

“The fact that a senator dared to speak the opinions of millions of Canadians frightened those same few people, and their fear has been evident every day since, as they have constantly attacked me in Ottawa with unconstitutional motions and costly inquiries, all in an effort to stifle freedom of expression,” she wrote.

“Not only has it been my duty as a senator (who constitutionally cannot be expelled), but it has been my privilege, to weather those attacks on behalf of Canadians who value freedom of expression,” she continued. “I will treasure the many thousands of letters I have received from all across the country in support of my efforts for the rest of my life.”

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My memory of that senator was that she was not acknowledging the horrors of the IRS system when she was saying they were good.

It's a balancing act to have that discussion isn't it.

Thanks for your response @WhyCzar.
 
And now I have discovered that the book Grave Errors is being branded as racist denialism.

A Monty Python Take on the Quesnel Book Banning | IRSRG

A Monty Python take on the Quesnel book banning Hymie Rubenstein April 9, 2024 There have been growing calls for Quesnel, B.C. Mayor Ron Paull to resign following the discovery that his wife had been handing out free copies of Grave Error: How the Media Misled Us (and the Truth about...
irsrg.ca irsrg.ca

Yes @Northwind - the balance is hard to find.

I have learned a lot in pursuing this topic.

At this juncture my sympathy is still aligned with the ongoing suffering of the survivors that are being denied access to the records of the deaths of their loved ones lost.

I am now inclined to follow up further on the Canadian Residential Schools sad legacy and I have chosen this website as my best source of truth to that end.

 
But denial is so easy ... you just eliminate the truth part as a naked lie! There it is flat out ... beyond the horizon ... an enigma!
 
WhyCzar said:
Other space-time events that for me check the boxes of this fine thread - Delightful Life

Climate Clap Trap?

The fact that none of the self-appointed net zero zealots practice what they preach while insisting on foisting taxes on everyone else as a pretext to seize control over every trivial detail of our lives, while pretending to be "saving the planet".
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That one fits as well

A lot of excess energy and chaos and othering and demonization and excess politicization and concept creep around this one as well

Thank you
 
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