Another Lulu From Luke: The Unjust Judge (Luke 18: 1-8)

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jimkenney12 said:
his was presented as a story. There no judge or widow though asking questions about them provides avenues for further exploration of a variety of issues.
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Stories are supposed to contain truths. There are judges, of various sorts, just and unjust. It's pretty interesting that Luke has Jesus comparing Godde to an unjust judge. Why not a tired judge, an over-burdened judge?

There are poor widows, metaphorically, crying for justice, either personal or systemic. It is presumed to be good that they persist, despite the fact that it might feel like banging your head against a wall.
 
I don’t think at all that the judge is supposed to be God. I think it is an example on how to deal with the world, which often is unjust and doesn’t care about people or has any moral values. And in dealing with this kind of world, “ the squeaky wheel gets the grease”. What does this say about prayer? Prayer is lived, persistent action against injustice.
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
I don’t think at all that the judge is supposed to be God. I think it is an example on how to deal with the world, which often is unjust and doesn’t care about people or has any moral values. And in dealing with this kind of world, “ the squeaky wheel gets the grease”. What does this say about prayer? Prayer is lived, persistent action against injustice.
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Yes, I agree that the unjust judge is not meant to be God.

However, I think the story draws a parallel between the disciples praying to God and the widow pleading with the judge.

Why would this be? Hard to figure.

The lesson is to persist in prayer. It still seems to me like an odd way for Jesus to make this point.
 
Normal folk just cannot deal with the duality that goes on within a psyche of two parts; on dealt with absolutes and the other alternately deals with things projected in another dimension or time that does not yet exist ... if it comes to that one might call it an abstract in which some deductions are not yet there ...

Thus holes in the space of mind causing hard spots for some to assimilate ... thus that out of here sensation by either side when they face one another ... it is like non-bodily experience when one is dead to the absolute!

Some folk even say the absolute cannot exist without a bit of imagination ... or it wouldn't project on the essence of brain ... a ghost-like perspective in the well of mind?

Denial allows one to ignore such things as a power ... thus opposing powers creating positives and negatives in any stand alone psyche until they decide to pull together with difficulty ... a 2 hoarse situation in the rackets called life!

One might even abstract a hoar's head in bed ... creating curiosity over what is hoar and frosty ... Christmas until a spark is set on the hob ... and sheets containing a fuzzy myth ... well worn? Demands putting a good face on what impact was got ...
 
paradox3 said:
Yes, I agree that the unjust judge is not meant to be God.

However, I think the story draws a parallel between the disciples praying to God and the widow pleading with the judge.

Why would this be? Hard to figure.

The lesson is to persist in prayer. It still seems to me like an odd way for Jesus to make this point.
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I'm curious, the "titles" that are given to Jesus' parables, do they influence us as to how we should regard the message?
When I see the title, The Parable of the Unjust Judge and the Persistent Widow, it seems to automatically feed into my desire for women to be strong in the Bible and of course Jesus is regarded as treating women as equals to some. So we search for the meaning of the parable from the titles reference to her persistence.
I've even found a minister on the internet that thinks that the widow is God and the Unjust Judge represents the world. God is supposedly issuing a warning to the world and those who rule.
I agree, everyone can have a different take on the message but what exactly did God want us to know?
In Mark we are told Jesus spoke in parables so only his disciples would understand and unbelievers or those on the "outside" wouldnt understand.
 
Waterfall said:
I'm curious, the "titles" that are given to Jesus' parables, do they influence us as to how we should regard the message?
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I brought this up in the last BPoTW from Luke 16, pointing our that the titles given that parable in the NIV and another translation were quite different in meaning and that it seemed to me one or both might be using their choice of title to spin the meaning. So, yeah, I think they do, or at least the people who assign them are trying to.
 
This post, in fact:

A Lulu From Luke: Dishonesty Commended? (Luke 16: 1-13)

Somewhat to @Davyc's point, I had an experience when Googling this passage after P3 told me it would be her BPoTW. Below is a snip of a Google search for Luke 16:1-12 that came up with three translations, all on Biblegateway. Each heading has a slightly different meaning and seems skewed to...
www.wondercafe2.ca www.wondercafe2.ca
 
So, starting from the beginning of the Biblegateway translations, we've got (noting that not every translation names the section):

Parables on Prayer (AMP, NASB)
(The) Parable of the Persistent Widow (CSB, EHV, ESV, HCSB, NABRE, NIV, NKJV, NLT)
Justice for the Faithful (CEB)
A Widow and a Judge (CEV)
Pray and Don't Lose Heart: God Will Avenge His People (DLNT)
God Will Answer His People (ERV, EXB, ICB, NCV)
The Parable of the Unrighteous Judge and the Widow (GNV)
God Will Help His People (GW, NOG)
The Parable of the Widow and the Judge (GNT, MEV)
The Parable About the Judge and the Widow (ISV)
Jesus Urges His Disciples to Persist in Prayer (PHILLIPS)
The Parable of the Unjust Judge (LEB)
The Story of the Persistent Widow (MSG)
The Parable of the Importunate Widow (NCB)
Prayer and the Parable of the Persistent Widow (NET)
The Story of the Widow Who Would Not Give Up (NIRV)
The Picture-Story of the Woman Whose Husband Had Died (NLV)
The Parable of the Widow and the Unjust Judge (NSRV)
The Parables of the Persistent Widow and the Tax Collector (NTE)
Jesus Gives a Parable about Prayer (TPT)

Hmmm...interesting, again, what a difference a title might make when you're reading a section.
 
Interesting comments re the titles of sections of the bible.

Sometimes I wonder about who decided which verses are included in a particular section.

Would we understand this parable differently if our Bibles ended it at verse 5?

Verses 6 - 8 could almost be considered a separate discourse. What if our Bibles labelled it as such?
 
Punctuation .... imagine that in Hebrew ... where there appears to be a void of that sort of thing in Hebrew literature ... This causes the folk of that domain to depend more on spacing as described by the letter "heh" poorly understood by English authority to the delight of James Joyce ... who wrote pages without punctuation, sentence structure or Para graphics ...

This may allowed duality and satyr of great wisdom in the carrying of a intelligence denied by masses ... so thought goes somewhere unseen ...

For the baskets of those cases that didn't wish to know anyhow ... thus darker hearts ... kind 've blind affections?
 
Interesting question. If we titled the parable of the prodigal father the parable of unconditional love, how would that change our interpretation? Call the parable of the Good Samaritan the parable of no boundaries love or live without boundaries. Call the parable of the Sower the parable of abundant seed.
 
paradox3 said:
Jesus tells a parable to show the disciples they should pray always and not lose heart. The story is called either "The Unjust Judge" or "The Persistent Widow".
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Neither title appears in the actual text.

So, I think sometimes we are guilty of reading only the headlines. And imagine what the story is about. More comfortable in our own imaginations than what facts might be shared.
paradox3 said:
The story involves a judge who neither fears God nor respects people. He is approached by a widow seeking justice against her adversary. The judge initially refuses to help her, but in the end, he grants her request so she will stop bothering him. He fears becoming worn out by her unending pleas.
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The character of the judge is a diversion.

The function of the judge is key. The judge is to listen, to hear the pleas of the people not to ignore them.

Maybe the judge has regular office hours, if so he could promise to listen later. Save that the text mentions he has put her off before. He hasn't listened and returned a judgment she disagreed with he has flat out refused to hear her case.

So, she goes to where that deficit is going to elicit some sympathy. To his home where his wife and kids are going to be confronted with the knowledge that their husband/father is not the respectable individual they believe him to be.

Not only will she not give him any sleep he has family members staring at him as if he is somebody they never knew before. That creates a scenario where there will never be any peace. The only way out is for him to hear her case. He grants her justice.

What was she wanting? We don't know exactly. Why? Because it isn't important to the point being made.

What is the justice that the Judge gave to her? We don't know exactly. Why? Because it is also unimportant to the point being made.

What is the point?

Be persistent in prayer?

Is that point made?

I think it is.
 
Is a just psyche inequitable with life and thus ... well supernatural of the other kind?

That dreamy psyche may weight the options more favourably for the down trod side ... a Dunne Kahn? Fired earth ware ... an ochre symbol ...
 
revjohn said:
What is the point?

Be persistent in prayer?

Is that point made?

I think it is.
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Yes I think persistence in prayer is the point being made here. But If the character of the judge is just a distraction, why mention it at all?
 
paradox3 said:
But If the character of the judge is just a distraction, why mention it at all?
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Agreed, on two counts. Firstly, I don't think there are a lot of unnecessary words in the bible, so I'm uncomfortable just ignoring a bit, and secondly, and sorta related, it definitely casts aspersions on the character of Godde.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Agreed, on two counts. Firstly, I don't think there are a lot of unnecessary words in the bible, so I'm uncomfortable just ignoring a bit, and secondly, and sorta related, it definitely casts aspersions on the character of Godde.
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Especially if it is a physical God instead of the essence of an indeterminate god ... incarnate spirit? The way it appears may not be how it is ... just something of a trick stir in space ... causing dimples --- Einstein!

Imagine breaks in space ... difficult spots! Once even described as KAIROS ... reflective Eros ... if Euros there are groups that will throw money at it ...

Diabolical stripping down of thee support system ... efficiency for the military industrial complex that believe they are simplifying our way out ... a portal of indeterminate nature ... rab'd hole ... nebulous to say least ... best to not say much as if it were real ... thus generation of myth ingenuous? Thus departed ... or so it goes ... as the old adage states ... nothing remains ... extensive confinement? Agoraphobia may set it ...

In short what does a mortal really know about extensive matter ... and further immaterial things that are indeterminate?
 
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BetteTheRed said:
Agreed, on two counts. Firstly, I don't think there are a lot of unnecessary words in the bible, so I'm uncomfortable just ignoring a bit, and secondly, and sorta related, it definitely casts aspersions on the character of Godde.
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Agreeing with you about the unnecessary words.

The passage doesn't necessarily cast any aspersions on God (although it could). The parable might reflect a feeling of frustration with prayer and instruct us to keep on praying regardless.
 
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