And they're off...the election thread

[BetteTheRed]

Do you know what really confuses me about some of the above? I was trying to figure out the similarities in approach between Kimmio and Jae above, and concluded that it was because they're both MB "feelers". But then I realized that when I did explore my inner "Feelings", I found myself disturbed by Mulcair's eyes, which bothered neither of the Fs...

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

My observations (that have nothing to do with my vote actually) - Harper's eyes are cold as ice often, but it depends on if he looks genuinely happy or serious, Mulcair's are non-descript but I see a twinkle in them now and then (nothing that gives me a bad vibe or changes my opinion positively), and Trudeau is doe eyed but he just was blessed with his mom's good looks, it's genetic, nothing more "feely" than that. I can "think" too. @BetteTheRed

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

I don't like when Mulcair puts on that fake smile. He was probably told to counter the Angry Tom reputation, but a little of that shows his gusto and that he realizes it's a serious job. it's more genuine. Also, he looks awkward when he speaks straight into the camera but when he's not conscious of it he's totally fine.

In the post debate media scrum it was Trudeau I thought seemed more awkward than Mulcair did though. Harper did not make himself available to the press.

 

[ChemGal]

I miss the old debates when all the candidates sat around the table (or stood at their places) and it was available on TV all across the country.

It wasn't on a higher news channel that can be missed? Here something like 123 is a local news channel that's included with the basic package.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Do you know what really confuses me about some of the above? I was trying to figure out the similarities in approach between Kimmio and Jae above, and concluded that it was because they're both MB "feelers". But then I realized that when I did explore my inner "Feelings", I found myself disturbed by Mulcair's eyes, which bothered neither of the Fs...

What similarities? Jae's got a different approach and assessment, and will be, by the sounds of it, voting for a different party from me. The only similarity is we don't want the debate to be too boring? I want, not to see or hear fighting and pointless attacks, but to hear that the leaders are passionate - especially in pointing out things that aren't true and clearing them up. Not just " wahwah-wahwah. Bueller?"

I think that's the only real similarity.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

The biggest difference between the NDP's position and the Liberals is that the Libs are the ones that want to run a deficit for a few years - Justin did a switcheroo for political effect - and Mulcair thinks it's not necessary (I don't care, it's a shell game - as long as the worse off have better opportunities that's what I care about). Mulcair wants to tax rich CEOs by taking away stock options, Trudeau wants to tax them by taxing the personal income of the top 1% more. They are both ways of getting more taxes from the wealthiest - but Trudeau has to stand out as different because he wants himself and the Liberal brand to win. It's just a little bit different idea for doing the same thing, though.

NDP proposes cap and trade on industry that harms the environment - to make way for a clean energy economy- because carbon tax doesn't lower emissions it just makes people pay more money for them. While that may put more money in the purse it doesn't stop environmental damage done.

The Quebec/ Mulcair fear mongering is a red herring. He is not a seperatist. He proposed that 50%+1 is how referendums have always been, and he thinks that is a fair number, not that he wants it to happen. It won't happen if Quebequoise are happy with the Canadian government, anyway. There was a referendum before and seperatists lost, and they are even less of a force now.

The Conservatives are out of touch with what ordinary people need vs. what the most well off want. The old stock comment was a kicker.

Mulcair pointed out Trudeaus recent seitcheroos, including the deficit plan, and C51 because it kind of shows he's making it up as he goes along to try to win the election.
I think that given that the Libs and NDP are only nominally different in economic views, in actuality, Mulcair would make a better leader. Justin's just annoying.

@BetteTheRed I think this post indicates I'm thinking about the issues. I don't know why but I'm a little offended by the suggestion that I'm feeling it through rather than thinking it through. I'm doing both. I think most of us are. How'd you get that from my posts? Other than my gut feeling about Mulcair being different from your gut feeling about Mulcair? And comparing my approach to Jae's? It makes no sense. Is it coming from a feeling place rather than a thinking place that you said that? Because I have given some well thought out analysis as well.

 

[Jaebius]

What similarities? Jae's got a different approach and assessment, and will be, by the sounds of it, voting for a different party from me.

Actually, my thoughts are on choosing the best local candidate to vote for, and in my opinion the best just so happens to be a Liberal. I'm in no way a die-hard Liberal supporter. In related news, the lawn sign I requested arrived today.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Sorry. I had to point out that I don't know how the heck Jae's and my approach were assumed to be the same like that was a given. Our opinions and explanations for our opinions on this thread have been quite different. We hold some different political views, and approaches to those views.

I'm shaking my head wondering where that came from and why. It's not right because as soon as you do that - and it is assumed we're the same, if one of us says something disagreeable, neither one of our opinions will be considered.

Had to say that and get it out of the way. Sorry for the temporary derail.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Actually, my thoughts are on choosing the best local candidate to vote for, and in my opinion the best just so happens to be a Liberal. I'm in no way a die-hard Liberal supporter. In related news, the lawn sign I requested arrived today.

And I could not care less about a lawn sign. I don't have a lawn anyway. Lol.

Didn't you say a few posts back you were changing your vote to Green? In fact, right after your discussion about the phone call you got soliciting a Liberal vote? So, that was a momentary flip flop?

I'm pretty sure still, I'll vote NDP. ABC, but likely NDP. I have never changed my mind about not voting Green. Not because I don't like them but because it eon't help the ABC factor, imo.

 

[ChemGal]

Sorry. I had to point out that I don't know how the heck Jae's and my approach were assumed to be the same like that was a given. Our opinions and explanations for our opinions on this thread have been quite different. We hold some different political views, and approaches to those views.

I'm confused by the comment too.

 

[Jaebius]

And I could not care less about a lawn sign. I don't have a lawn anyway. Lol.

Didn't you say a few posts back you were changing your vote to Green? In fact, right after your discussion about the phone call you got soliciting a Liberal vote? So, that was a momentary flip flop?

I'm pretty sure still, I'll vote NDP. ABC, but likely NDP. I have never changed my mind about not voting Green. Not because I don't like them but because it eon't help the ABC factor, imo.

In many ways I'd like to vote green. I really like their leader Ms. May, and their environmental focus. That being said - their local candidate here in Etobicoke Centre is an unknown to me, and it is largely a two party race here - incumbent Conservative vs. popular Liberal. I'd rather have Borys as our MP than Ted.

 

[Jaebius]

I'm confused by the comment too.

I'm not totally clear about it myself

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

In many ways I'd like to vote green. I really like their leader Ms. May, and their environmental focus. That being said - their local candidate here in Etobicoke Centre is an unknown to me, and it is largely a two party race here - incumbent Conservative vs. popular Liberal. I'd rather have Borys as our MP than Ted.

Fair enough. I voted in terms of the best local candidate last time but my focus is different this time.

 

[Jaebius]

Do you know what really confuses me about some of the above? I was trying to figure out the similarities in approach between Kimmio and Jae above, and concluded that it was because they're both MB "feelers". But then I realized that when I did explore my inner "Feelings", I found myself disturbed by Mulcair's eyes, which bothered neither of the Fs...

I think an interesting study could be done on the relationship between personality style and behavior/attitude during election season. I hadn't noticed a similarity between Kimmio's and my posts in this thread. What similarities have you noticed Bette? It wouldn't surprise me if there had been some similarities, as Kimmio and I both have introverted feeling as our dominant cognitive function, and extroverted thinking as our inferior. We're both very values-driven. That said, there should be noticeable differences as well between Kimmio's postings (as she's an intuitive feeler) and my own (as I'm a sensing feeler). I doubt that we're the only two feelers here at WC2 though. Another thing I found interesting but true-to-type is when revjohn, a thinking intuitive expressed his desire for debates to truly be proper debates following proper debate rules.

 

[Luce NDs]

Jae likes the ultimate debate ... it comes with and end to itself... the Dark Lass of War ... sometime an arc angel like Joan ... or John if you allow symbolic redactions and switches. Who controls this ... the un-conscious?

 

[Jaebius]

Jae likes the ultimate debate ... it comes with and end to itself... the Dark Lass of War ... sometime an arc angel like Joan ... or John if you allow symbolic redactions and switches. Who controls this ... the un-conscious?

Yes - the ultimate debate. West tiff Luce. It Gould be a battle Royale to the finish. If all survives the lirpa, the battle halls continue with the ahn woon.

 

[Seeler]

I found the debate online and finally got to watch it last night - interesting to watch after hearing/reading so much commentary on it.

I watched for it but couldn't fault anything about Mulcair's eyes. He did tend to turn towards Trudeau or Haarper if he was adddressing them, but this was a heaad and shoulders turn, not just the eyes. He would then reemeember to turn back to the camera. Actually I found turning towawrds the others seemed 'real' to me. I too look at the person to whom I am speaking.

Unlike those who enjoy a good fight, I found it a real turn-off when two (or three) people all try to out-shout one another. At times Trudeau and Mulcair seemed willing to continue at it forever. Sometimes Harper and one or the other. In a three way shout Harper tended (wisely I thought - even if I don't like him) to stop in mid-sentence and let the other two deck it out. A good moderator should have stepped in much earlier in many cases. I'm there to listen to what they have to say, not to who can sustain a shouting match the longest.

(sorry about the bad typing - it takes awhile for my medication to kick in most mornings.)

 

[Jaebius]

On the subject of the candidate's eyes - Mulcair's seem serious yet warm. Trudeau's gentle yet weak. Harper's cold and steely. May's... ah, May's eyes... I could melt in them...

 

[BetteTheRed]

Didn't mean to offend you, Kimmio, and it's hard to pinpoint a single post each that highlights what I meant, but it's a word here and there that seemed to make it clear that you and Jae come to very different conclusions, but using similar mechanisms. For some reason I had gone back a few pages to look at something, so I'd kinda skimmed a bunch of posts, and saw a pattern there, I thought.

Really just a rather careless comment. Carry on.

My problem isn't with the eyes per se. It's a disconnect between his eyes and the rest of his expression; could just be a serious effort to overcome "Angry Tom", as you say.

I'm almost surely going to have to vote Liberal in my riding, which is a disappointment. It's much nicer when it's clear that my vote will have NO effect and I can vote Green, but we've had some riding changes.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

I found the debate online and finally got to watch it last night - interesting to watch after hearing/reading so much commentary on it.

I watched for it but couldn't fault anything about Mulcair's eyes. He did tend to turn towards Trudeau or Haarper if he was adddressing them, but this was a heaad and shoulders turn, not just the eyes. He would then reemeember to turn back to the camera. Actually I found turning towawrds the others seemed 'real' to me. I too look at the person to whom I am speaking.

Unlike those who enjoy a good fight, I found it a real turn-off when two (or three) people all try to out-shout one another. At times Trudeau and Mulcair seemed willing to continue at it forever. Sometimes Harper and one or the other. In a three way shout Harper tended (wisely I thought - even if I don't like him) to stop in mid-sentence and let the other two deck it out. A good moderator should have stepped in much earlier in many cases. I'm there to listen to what they have to say, not to who can sustain a shouting match the longest.

(sorry about the bad typing - it takes awhile for my medication to kick in most mornings.)

Yeah, I think it was near the beginning when all three were yelling overtop of each other. It wasn't good form but it made me chuckle as I thought, "Uh oh. Is the whole thing going be like this?"

I did like it when Mulcair spoke up loudly over Harper and the moderator to correct a mistruth Harper was telling about Mulcair selling out Canadian jobs. I think it was pertaining to pipelines.