An Hypothetical.
- Thread starter Pavlos Maros
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Fear of hell keeps you from robbing banks?
I wonder what the proportion is of bank robbers who believe in hell vs those who don't. Anyone?
Most people don't rob banks because that would be stupid and would ruin their life.
@pontifexgeronimo13, by that logic - born again Christians are all saved from hell (that others don't believe in), so they would all be robbing banks because they're all going to heaven no matter what. Are there any stats on that?
Ritafee
Is Being Human
The natural human being is a living soul -- consisting of -- spirit, mind and body (flesh).
There are two opposing facets of human nature — 'flesh' and 'spirit'.
The spirit facet of our human being is naturally aware of a spiritual reality and naturally attempts to “connect” with that dimension.
This spiritual side of our natural being desires to connect with 'God' because, as Jesus pointed out, “God is spirit”.
Spirit Lives. The kingdom of heaven is within. Hell is a temporary state of mind. Flesh dies.
In awesome wonder ... that 'IS' the 'God' (for lack of a better word) that I worship (through a glass darkly).
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Pavlos Maros
Well-Known Member
No it doesn't it limits you, how is that free. There is no such thing as true freedom.
Pavlos Maros
Well-Known Member
99.9% because 0.1% of prisoners are atheist.I wonder what the proportion is of bank robbers who believe in hell vs those who don't. Anyone?
Pavlos Maros
Well-Known Member
What is consistent with human nature? [/quote]That when justice breaks down so will the populous.
Next time, do a google search or looking in dictionary, if you don't know the meaning of a word.
is a concept on law and ethics that requires that people behave in a way that is fair, equal and balanced for everyone and the common good.
Next time, do a google search or looking in dictionary, if you don't know the meaning of a word.
Mrs.Anteater
Just keep going....
That when justice breaks down so will the populous.
is a concept on law and ethics that requires that people behave in a way that is fair, equal and balanced for everyone and the common good.
Next time, do a google search or looking in dictionary, if you don't know the meaning of a word.
[/QUOTE]
This is a discussion site. Look it up in the dictionary. If you don’t allow others to ask questions back to you ( or others), you should refrain from participating or starting threads. Personal attacks like this do not improve the quality of discussion. What part in you is satisfied when treating a fellow human like this?
Do you find that a fair, respectful, “ just” action? Would you not have done it if you believed in a punishing god?
Do you have atheist beliefs that supports treating fellow humans respectfully and not degrading, and if so, on what base?
I read that they often get converted during prison, and often to more extreme belief systems. This is anecdotal, and doesn’t mean they were believers going in.
Still, I don’t know of a dramatic number of atheists, specifically, who have robbed banks.
I think it’s funny though, that if born again Christians are saved from the hell they believe in...but if a potential eternal inferno keeps them from robbing banks...by PG13’s logic, unsafe and him would be Bonnie and Clyde.
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Pavlos Maros
Well-Known Member
This is a discussion site. Look it up in the dictionary. If you don’t allow others to ask questions back to you ( or others), you should refrain from participating or starting threads. Personal attacks like this do not improve the quality of discussion. What part in you is satisfied when treating a fellow human like this?[/quote]Wow! I have answered the questions posed, I'm merely suggestion they do a google search in future.
How is it a personal attack.
Get of your high horse.
Doesn't follow.
Would I not have done what?
I'm a humanist.
I'm only atheist, which is a negative label seen from a theistic perspective. because I don't believe the claims made that a god exists. In fact my morals are superior to a religious person. because they are my own I haven't adopted the morals of another, without question. If I were to act like they then that would degrade my morals. it would make it an act that is only done in the hope of a reward or for fear of punishment.
Wow! I have answered the questions posed, I'm merely suggestion they do a google search in future.
How is it a personal attack.
Get of your high horse.
Doesn't follow.
Would I not have done what?
I'm a humanist.
I'm only atheist, which is a negative label seen from a theistic perspective. because I don't believe the claims made that a god exists. In fact my morals are superior to a religious person. because they are my own I haven't adopted the morals of another, without question. If I were to act like they then that would degrade my morals. it would make it an act that is only done in the hope of a reward or for fear of punishment.
[/QUOTE]
Have you never met more liberal Christians than you describe? You make lots of assumptions. I completely understand aitheists’ cynicism about religion. I also don’t think it’s logical that there is no reason for being here - humans were not the original creators of existence because that makes no sense but the God we assign human characteristics to always just happens to be just like we are...so it was decided that we can be a better and more compassionate collection of humans...thus it was writ that a compassionate human who does not have our flaws would show us the way, would forgive us of our sins (as we forgive those who trespass against us)...and we should strive for a just world. And at some point...”Death and Hades will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.” I interpret that to mean, “Hell is permanently closed. Thank you for your contributions all these years.”
Verses like “There will be a time and the time is now...” are sort of like “War is over. If you want it.”
Seeler
Well-Known Member
Many years ago, I heard a study done with school children. How would they behave if the rules and controls were taken away? They were divided into groups. One group had a very strict and well disciplined classroom where the teacher taught the rules and enforce them with punishment. Her classes ran smoothly, the children very well behaved and obedient. Another group had a teacher with very relaxed rules – children were permitted to move about the room, check quietly with one another, choose to work together or alone. The teacher was very available to the students, moving about the room, offering to help and guidance where needed. Occasionally he asked for attention when he taught a new concept were introduced a new subject. The children were busy – the classroom often noisy and apparently disorganized.
Then the teachers of both rooms were removed and replaced by substitutes who passed out assignments and then simply sat at the front desk and waited for the children to approach them. They expected that the children from the well disciplined classroom would continue on with their studies and behave as they had been taught was correct, knowing the rules. And they expected the other classroom would be chaos.
They found just the opposite. Discipline soon broke down among the children who had followed rules for fear of punishment,
While those who are flexible with the rule that makes sense to them, continued on pretty much as before – working on projects, reading books, etc. and asking for help when they needed.
(Don't ask me the source of the study. I I don't remember. Nor am I sure I have all the details right. But the general conclusion was that children given guidance will do better at self-discipline than those who follow strict rules for fear of punishment).
If this is true of children, I think it would also be true of adults. I don't believe there is a literal hell, but I do believe that we should treat all of creation with respect and love.
Responsibility for anything other than a closed self ... a type of gourd!
Those in an inclosed gourd ... will look for loopholes to escape and become lawyers! This may end at mid Nyx!
These folk need rules because they don;t know anything of variance ... thus not a scrap of learning from beyond the dirt of their soul ...
These may be restricted in clay Tuns ... mus jarring vessels prone to acting bad! It is an eruptive expression like a pile of word to some folk is a pile of crap ... nothing on the surface to learn!
Superficial lawyers are like that ... fairy sees!
Those in an inclosed gourd ... will look for loopholes to escape and become lawyers! This may end at mid Nyx!
These folk need rules because they don;t know anything of variance ... thus not a scrap of learning from beyond the dirt of their soul ...
These may be restricted in clay Tuns ... mus jarring vessels prone to acting bad! It is an eruptive expression like a pile of word to some folk is a pile of crap ... nothing on the surface to learn!
Superficial lawyers are like that ... fairy sees!
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Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
You must be capital c Catholic. That is not the biblical view.
You should read Determined to Believe by John Lennox. Your head might explode, but he tries to do it as gently as possible.
Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
That’s just you not understanding what the gospel is. I would guess that zero percent of born agains rob banks.I read that they often get converted during prison, and often to more extreme belief systems. This is anecdotal, and doesn’t mean they were believers going in.
Still, I don’t know of a dramatic number of atheists, specifically, who have robbed banks.
I think it’s funny though, that if born again Christians are saved from the hell they believe in...but if a potential eternal inferno keeps them from robbing banks...by PG13’s logic, unsafe and him would be Bonnie and Clyde.
It is not because of hell. The hypothetical makes God unto a liar. And His moral code no longer moral.
Why would it upset you if God changed his mind about hell, @Pontifex Geronimo 13? Do you really want hell to be true? If not, then why don’t you pray for God to cancel hell... God changes his mind in the bible about a few things, so why not now? or do you think people should burn in hell? Hell-fear, is not an impetus for the fruits of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is supposed to lead to a bunch of good things, not to clinging to a fearmongering belief that non believers will fry for eternity.
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Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
Nobody wants he’ll to be true. Nobody wants gravity to be true when they lose their footing on the side of a mountain.
I hold a biblical worldview. I believe it is reality. So I study to learn more about reality. The more I learn, the sharper my understanding of reality. I may be wrong about a lot of things and unsafe may be wrong about a lot of things. But we are striving toward the same goal.
I have listened to, I don’t know, 50 or 100 Geofee sermons. Not once acknowledging the gospel. He uses the word gospel to sound religious, but the gospel is not there. That is likely true at most UCCs.
Good news is freedom from bad news. Without bad news there is no good news.
I hold a biblical worldview. I believe it is reality. So I study to learn more about reality. The more I learn, the sharper my understanding of reality. I may be wrong about a lot of things and unsafe may be wrong about a lot of things. But we are striving toward the same goal.
I have listened to, I don’t know, 50 or 100 Geofee sermons. Not once acknowledging the gospel. He uses the word gospel to sound religious, but the gospel is not there. That is likely true at most UCCs.
Good news is freedom from bad news. Without bad news there is no good news.