An article "The church is killing its gay kids"

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RitaTG said:
Thank you for your patience Bette ..... but these are the very sort of persons I need to share with.
This is the sort of thing that does so much damage to LGBTQ persons and their families that are stuck in churches that think like this.
These are the persons that lead such thinking and they need to be made aware of the damage they are doing.
This is hard difficult work .... it would seem I am called to it.....
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I've given my ideas on this in Bette's thread.
 
BetteTheRed said:
I cannot read this bulls**t over and over and over again.

Can't we have a dead soldiers area where we can let people with 2000 year old, bad, hurtful, stupid opinions, like airclean and unsafe, battle it out with those who have enough stomach for it?
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You mean you only want to see what you post? First wound"t that become very boring ?
 
airclean33 said:
You mean you only want to see what you post? First wound"t that become very boring ?
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I didn't read BetteTheRed's suggestion in that way.

My understanding is that she would want all threads where "dead horses" are being beaten moved to a dead horses thread.

So, in context of this thread the idea that homosexuality is sinful and needs to be addressed spiritually would be a dead horse. Why? Because there is no resolution to that particular notion. You, for example, are not going to budge and say it isn't sinful and BetteTheRed, for example, is not going to budge and say that it is. Neither of you are going to agree to disagree you will both simply say the same things over and over and over again.

So . . .The idea has been proposed that when threads get to that kind of no it isn't/yes it is loop the thread gets shuffled off to a dead horse forum and those with the strength to keep beating it can do so at their leisure.

A discussion has been started here: http://www.wondercafe2.ca/index.php?threads/dead-soldiers.1813/ if you want to catch up and offer an opinion.
 
No, airclean, there's lots of worthwhile things to argue and discuss.

I'm very interested in a discussion about how to reduce the suicide rate of LGBTQ kids. Your opinions on the subject add nothing to the discussion, except to point out why we need to have it.
 
Rita, what are the youth saying to you? What do they want to see put in place for them in the churches?
 
revjohn said:
I didn't read BetteTheRed's suggestion in that way.

My understanding is that she would want all threads where "dead horses" are being beaten moved to a dead horses thread.

So, in context of this thread the idea that homosexuality is sinful and needs to be addressed spiritually would be a dead horse. Why? Because there is no resolution to that particular notion. You, for example, are not going to budge and say it isn't sinful and BetteTheRed, for example, is not going to budge and say that it is. Neither of you are going to agree to disagree you will both simply say the same things over and over and over again.

So . . .The idea has been proposed that when threads get to that kind of no it isn't/yes it is loop the thread gets shuffled off to a dead horse forum and those with the strength to keep beating it can do so at their leisure.

A discussion has been started here: http://www.wondercafe2.ca/index.php?threads/dead-soldiers.1813/ if you want to catch up and offer an opinion.
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Thanks Re John . I will have a look.
 
Waterfall said:
Rita, what are the youth saying to you? What do they want to see put in place for them in the churches?
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Hello Waterfall ..... the youth are in no position to really know what to say .... they are too beaten.
What I am asking for is that the church takes the time to do 2 things:
1. To carefully consider what they say and to not make the young ones feel condemned and unclean.
That means stop the shame.
2. In the light of the Exodus International experience ... to carefully look at their doctrine and take the time and effort to really see if what we have been saying is true. The Exodus International experiment was such an astonishing failure that has clearly shown the "traditional doctrine" does not work. Since that is so then at the very least there should be a very thorough and honest analysis as to why and take the time to explore something that does work. Perhaps dialogue with some of the more progressive churches that have seen their LGBTQ members blossom into wonderful christians would be in order.
 
RitaTG said:
Hello Waterfall ..... the youth are in no position to really know what to say .... they are too beaten.
What I am asking for is that the church takes the time to do 2 things:
1. To carefully consider what they say and to not make the young ones feel condemned and unclean.
That means stop the shame.
2. In the light of the Exodus International experience ... to carefully look at their doctrine and take the time and effort to really see if what we have been saying is true. The Exodus International experiment was such an astonishing failure that has clearly shown the "traditional doctrine" does not work. Since that is so then at the very least there should be a very thorough and honest analysis as to why and take the time to explore something that does work. Perhaps dialogue with some of the more progressive churches that have seen their LGBTQ members blossom into wonderful christians would be in order.[/QUOT


You posted RitaTG---"traditional doctrine" does not work.
Airclean-- What is it you mean by this?
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airclean .... look into the Exodus International experiment and what they believed and what they had others do to combat their being gay. The "pray away the gay stuff" ... the "trust God , give it to God" stuff .... all the diligent stuff .... the usual.
And keep in mind these were very devout christians .... both counsellors and clients...
That is what I mean ..... please have a look....
 
There was also a huge suicide risk within the Exodus clientele, too. Self-admitted on the announcement that they were a) shutting down and b) apologizing. And these were adults.
 
Hi RitaTG-- OK I read some of the paper you you were asking me to. First I find the one who wrote it. Mia Norton is gay.She also writes for Huff Post.Don't have time tonight to tell you all I found. It the mean time why don't you post on this.
You posted RitaTG---"traditional doctrine" does not work.
Airclean-- What is it you mean by this?
 
The above videos, what does this have to do with this thread?
The kid who made them is an x Muslim, who is very good at articulating the truths of the bible and that it is actually one coherent message from God.

Only Jesus can save the young ones, or old ones for that matter. The message of the gospel may be lost in some churches who choose to pursue inclusion as the focus instead of Jesus. Maybe those are the churches that are killing the young ones?
 
Pontifex Geronimo 13 said:
The above videos, what does this have to do with this thread?
The kid who made them is an x Muslim, who is very good at articulating the truths of the bible and that it is actually one coherent message from God.

Only Jesus can save the young ones, or old ones for that matter. The message of the gospel may be lost in some churches who choose to pursue inclusion as the focus instead of Jesus. Maybe those are the churches that are killing the young ones?
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The focus of the Church, I feel, should be on participating in the Missio Dei - God's mission to lovingly redeem all of humanity unto himself. That mission should properly include doing ministry with everyone who wants to get involved. Sorry - don't know how to turn the "bold" off using my Windows Phone.
 
RitaTG your quote -----I feel sorry for you .... that you feel that your being gay is a curse ...... I feel sorry for you indeed

These are just my thoughts on your statement to me -----

No need to feel sorry for me RitaTG ----I found the One who could actually free me from depression ---guilt ---condemnation ---and anything else that could come against me and accept me and give me a great life ---It is I who feel sorry for you indeed --- and all the LGBTQ individuals who refuse to accept or are ignorant of the Truth and Grace that has been offered to all people no matter who they are ----for it is not about the sexual side of it as it is the acceptance of the One who can free us from the guilt and condemnation that sexual side creates within ourselves ----We are our own worst enemies -----We blame all others --- the Church ----the straight society -----God -----God's moral laws ----God's word ----homophobic people and groups ----instead of accepting the Truth and the Freedom from the One who can free the guilt and condemnation we personally deal with because of being different which is the culprit that is Killing the young ones not the church ------Until the LGBTQ gets this they will be depressed ----feel unworthy and not accepted ------and unfortunately feel the need to rid themselves of this worldly society -----who by the way Satan is in charge of ----not God -----

Satan job is to kill --steal and destroy us -----and he is doing a good job -------


Pontifex Geronimo 13 ---Your Quote ------this needs repeating ------Only Jesus can save the young ones, or old ones for that matter----

Amen !----Amen ! and Amen ! -----
 
airclean33 said:
Hi RitaTG-- OK I read some of the paper you you were asking me to. First I find the one who wrote it. Mia Norton is gay.She also writes for Huff Post.Don't have time tonight to tell you all I found. It the mean time why don't you post on this.
You posted RitaTG---"traditional doctrine" does not work.
Airclean-- What is it you mean by this?
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ummmmm ..... I explained what I meant about the traditional doctrine in my last post .... please reread...
Thanks
 
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