An article "The church is killing its gay kids"

[airclean33]

Anything that goes against God's essential character is sin. Some would argue that homosexual behavior is sin, because it goes against God's wisdom for how human sexual relations should be conducted. Since people engaging in it are acting against God, the argument goes, they are separated from God who demands perfect alignment with his ways

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--Jae be careful some may not like this post. Not I though - ,it looks like your waking .

 

[Jaebius]

--Jae be careful some may not like this post. Not I though - ,it looks like your waking .

Waking from what? Waking to what?

 

[blackbelt1961]

why cant you fly instead, worked for her!

 

[airclean33]

First airclean, please don't call me, "Minister." There's no need to be insulting

Second, I don't usually use the terms, "born again," or, "born again Christian," because they have become such clichés.

Third, a born again is, I would say, a broken person who has been saved by God's grace, given a new identity in Christ, and become a co-inheritor with Christ of the Kingdom of Heaven.

-If the term I use bothers you , I will not use it again. It was not meant to be against you.A Minister in the Christian church is not an easy job.You will have soul"s in your hands. You will not be able to make all happy.

Your Idea here of Born again is not bad Jay.--These things I may ad. They are those who have ask Christ to save them . They are those Who"s name is now in the book of life. They receive GODS Holy Spirit to come into there body with them and help them walk with GOD.They have been forgiven all there sins .For you see you cannot walk with GOD and walk in sin. The infilling of the Holy Spirit is GODS sign you have been saved.You are no longer of this earth, but our a son of GOD and are now a part of GODS Kingdom.You flesh is not saved . So you must be very careful not to allow self to do things against GOD

 

[unsafe]

BetteTheRed ----your quote -----Point is, reputable scholars/translation experts can parse that one little phrase in Verse 7 in three distinctly different ways, -----

This is my view ------from the Hebrew ---

Read all here ----http://biblehub.com/lexicon/genesis/4-7.htm

and thou shalt rule
mashal (maw-shal')
to rule -- (have, make to have) dominion, governor, indeed, reign, (bear, cause to, have) rule(-ing, -r), have power.


NASB ©HebrewTransliterationStrong'sDefinitionOrigin
"Ifאִם־im-518ifa prim. conjunction
you doתֵּיטִיב֙tei·tiv3190to be good, well, glad, or pleasinga prim. root
well,תֵיטִ֔יבtei·tiv,3190to be good, well, glad, or pleasinga prim. root
will not [your countenance] be liftedשְׂאֵ֔תse·'et,7613exaltation, dignity, swelling, uprisingfromnasa
up? And ifוְאִם֙ve·'im518ifa prim. conjunction
you do not do well,3190to be good, well, glad, or pleasinga prim. root
sinחַטָּ֣אתchat·tat2403bsin, sin offeringfromchata
is crouchingרֹבֵ֑ץro·vetz;7257stretch oneself out, lie down, lie stretched outa prim. root
at the door;לַפֶּ֖תַחlap·pe·tach6607opening, doorway, entrancefrompathach
and its desireתְּשׁ֣וּקָתֹ֔וte·shu·ka·tov,8669a longingfrom an unused word
is for you, but you must masterתִּמְשָׁל־tim·shal-4910to rule, have dominion, reigna prim. root
it."

4910. mashal►
Strong's Concordance
mashal: to rule, have dominion, reign
Original Word:מָשַׁל
Part of Speech:Verb
Transliteration:mashal
Phonetic Spellingmaw-shal')
Short Definition:rule
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to rule, have dominion, reign
NASB Translation

dominion (1), gain control (1), govern (1), had charge (1), have authority (1), master (1), obtain dominion (1), really going to rule (1), rule (27), ruled (5), ruler (18), ruler's (2), rulers (6), rules (9), ruling (3), wielded (1).

and thou shalt rule
mashal (maw-shal')
to rule -- (have, make to have) dominion, governor, indeed, reign, (bear, cause to, have) rule(-ing, -r), have power.


Parallel Verses -----all same the same thing ------all the same meaning ----Strong's 4910 --look it up

New American Standard Bible

"If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it."

King James Bible

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto theeshall behis desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Holman Christian Standard Bible

If you do what is right, won't you be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it.

"International Standard Version

If you do what is appropriate, you'll be accepted, won't you? But if you don't do what is appropriate, sin is crouching near your doorway, turning toward you. Now as for you, will you take dominion over it?"

NET Bible
Is it not true that if you do what is right, you will be fine? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at the door. It desires to dominate you, but you must subdue it."


I did look up This Book ----It is a Fictional Book -----written by man who in my opinion is putting his own interpretation on these words ---but this is just my view

Nowhere do I see these words below in these scripture -----it says you must rule over it -----you must subdue it ----will you take dominion over it -and this one which is the second one you posted says -----and thou shalt rule over him.

Do thou" rule over sin - an instruction
2) "Thou shalt" rule over sin - a predestination
3) "Thou mayest" rule over sin - a choice

 

[BetteTheRed]

No, actually, look at your quotes above. I'd say that the NASB is closer to "do thou" - an imperative - you MUST master it.

I would agree that "thou shalt" (the predestination quote) is closest to the translation of KJV, the Holman, the NET.

However, the ISV puts it as a question - will you take dominion over it?, which is most similar to "thou mayest:" - a choice.

Do you see how word choices make a difference?

 

[Delightful Life]

@blackbelt1961 , @Pr. Jae, ty for your responses to my inquisitiveness
i'll have to table my continuing for now -- my brain is wanting to take a break in this particular line/the communication between your HSs & I has taken a break
i can come back to it later
lotsa hugs for being willing to explain & be vulnerable

 

[Delightful Life]

Inanna-- Here once more you and I do not agree. First think what your saying. I didn't come from this world. Oh my body did. but GOD put something in the body that comes through HIM.He calls it the breath of life. I see your understanding is off some what. Start at the beginning and read again slow.If GOD made, you He can and has the right to destroy you dose He not?I live because of His will. I am saved by His Grace. This is my belief. Or perhaps you are a believer you swung out of the trees.Then may be you are right and you really are an animal killer . It is true GOD has ordered some people killed. He even destroyed two city"s turned them to dust(.Are you GOD) that knows what will be?Do you know were the next Hitler will come from? Can you say were the anti christ is today ? God knows all thing's He will chose were, how, and who will be involved and at what time.

airclean33,

sorry, your HSs connection with me is very fuzzy...there must be some interference? i really don't know what you are trying to write here...i'm taking a break from this. take care and don't take any wooden nickels, give them away :3

 

[Delightful Life]

Indeed, a point I try to make whenever I suggest that living by the letter of the law is not what Christian faith is about. Christian faith is about discerning the spirit behind the Word (which is the revelation of God's character) as best we can and being guided by it, depending on the grace of God to cover us when we're mistaken. But if we can't show grace to others, it's hypocritical to claim grace for ourselves.

just wanted to write something regarding this before it disappears forever
i think that a big problem in the World at Large today is people not showing grace, being overly moral, that, being hypocritical might just save us all

(excerpted from a much longer talk)
ty for continuing to be you, revsdd

 

[Jaebius]

-If the term I use bothers you , I will not use it again. It was not meant to be against you...

airclean, the term, "Minister" doesn't bother me. It is just not one we use in the Baptist tradition.

A Minister in the Christian church is not an easy job.You will have soul"s in your hands. You will not be able to make all happy.

Your Idea here of Born again is not bad Jay.--These things I may ad. They are those who have ask Christ to save them...

Really airclean? Where in Scripture do you see Jesus telling people that they must ask him to save them if they want to be born again?

They are those Who"s name is now in the book of life...

Rather, I believe they are those whose names were always in the book of life - those predestined before creation to be saved.

They receive GODS Holy Spirit to come into there body with them and help them walk with GOD.They have been forgiven all there sins.

For you see you cannot walk with GOD and walk in sin.

Do you believe it's possible for Christians to sin airclean?

The infilling of the Holy Spirit is GODS sign you have been saved.

It would certainly be a sign, yes. No Christian is always filled with the Spirit.

You are no longer of this earth, but our a son of GOD and are now a part of GODS Kingdom.

Some are daughters of God.

You flesh is not saved...

It will be resurrected when Christ returns.

So you must be very careful not to allow self to do things against GOD

That almost makes it sound like you're legalistically obeying God out of fear.

 

[Luce NDs]

God in the form of Hebrew black scribbles is a force that can flatten the pool of the mind ... so light can Dan's on it!

Thus the peaks of emotions and pitz of eLLe-ish thoughts are equilibrated and the mind settles below a generally emotional horizon expected of mortals. Any mortal that can see the invisible is capable of the impossible ... that's the BS put forward by a fine old axiom constructed to keep the mortal pool bubbly! Beyond that ... in adepts ... lesser powers observing humbly!

"Good God" they think "it must be awful to be out there" ...and thus the dore is closed in the end ... and the learning session is over ... make sure you gather well while here ... get a grip on things you might need in never-never land ... where as part of the infinite you'll be back alone again where all thoughts are scattered!

 

[Jon71]

I don't get how anyone who knows God could believe that homosexuality is a sin. People are born gay or straight or bi just like people are born black or white or Hispanic, tall or short, cis gendered or not-cis gendered, right handed, left handed or ambidextrous. It's not comparable to a sin which is a decision to disobey God. God made people gay, he never made anyone a drunkard, a murderer, an idolater, etc. The acerbic non sequitors that are often tossed do not reconcile with the loving nature of God.
This is what no one will ever lead away from believing. God is the author of creation. God is inerrant. God loves us. Those three truths drive me to support my gay brothers and sisters as fully as I can.

 

[RitaTG]

I don't get how anyone who knows God could believe that homosexuality is a sin. People are born gay or straight or bi just like people are born black or white or Hispanic, tall or short, cis gendered or not-cis gendered, right handed, left handed or ambidextrous. It's not comparable to a sin which is a decision to disobey God. God made people gay, he never made anyone a drunkard, a murderer, an idolater, etc. The acerbic non sequitors that are often tossed do not reconcile with the loving nature of God.
This is what no one will ever lead away from believing. God is the author of creation. God is inerrant. God loves us. Those three truths drive me to support my gay brothers and sisters as fully as I can.

My goodness!!!! ... well said indeed! .... a keeper for me
Thank you Jon

 

[airclean33]

Hi Jae one is John 3-16 Did you not read this?
Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

 

[Jaebius]

Hi Jae one is John 3-16 Did you not read this?
Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

One what, airclean? One Bible verse? Yes, I agree, that's a Bible verse.

 

[airclean33]

airclean said:
They are those Who"s name is now in the book of life...
Rather,

Jae- post-- I believe they are those whose names were always in the book of life - those predestined before creation to be saved.




Gezzzzzz--Jae -- GOD knows who"s names are in the book of life. Do you also know?Or like the rest of us must be forgiven are sins . Then receive the Holy Spirit as His sign your name is there.

 

[Jaebius]

Gezzzzzz--Jae -- GOD knows who"s names are in the book of life. Do you also know?Or like the rest of us must be forgiven are sins . Then receive the Holy Spirit as His sign your name is there.

airclean - I find this a strange post. I have never claimed to know the list of names that are in the book of life. (I have received God's Spirit - which is a different statement than saying I'm forever Spirit-filled).

 

[RitaTG]

Jae ...... airclean has so much of the Holy Spirit that he knows far far more than the rest of us
I suggest you just nod your head and back away slowly LOL

 

[blackbelt1961]

airclean - I find this a strange post. I have never claimed to know the list of names that are in the book of life. (I have received God's Spirit - which is a different statement than saying I'm forever Spirit-filled).

Pr Jae , for $19.95 you can probably purchase the book off late night TV

but you must act now!

 

[RitaTG]

Pr Jae , for $19.95 you can probably purchase the book off late night TV

but you must act now!

do you get a magic prayer cloth with it or a vial of miracle water!!!