An article "The church is killing its gay kids"

[LoveGodLoveMan]

G

And yet, God loved David.

God loves the whole world John 3:16

But he does not condone sinfulness. Hence David was punished for his sin which was a loving act because it turned David back to God.

 

[Waterfall]

G

God loves the whole world John 3:16

But he does not condone sinfulness. Hence David was punished for his sin which was a loving act because it turned David back to God.

Did he give up his many wives too? Is polygamy okay, it's in the Bible. Is that fornication IYO?

 

[airclean33]

And of course the answer is I've read it cover to cover, preached from it, and studied it at the Christian university and now seminary level. Yes airclean, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. The question is - what was the activity of the men that brought about condemnation. Some say lust. Some say inhospitality. Some say the desire to gang rape. Whatever it was, it logically could not have been homosexuality as we normatively think of it today

.

This is not true Jae the Bible says.
Gen 19:3 But he urged them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.

Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house;

Gen 19:5 and they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them."
I don't think they were asking to shake hands with them. ,or to tell them of there gods. AS THEY PLAINLY SAID THEY WANTED TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM.

 

[airclean33]

Nice switcheroo there.....Basically the Bible can be misunderstood, by humans, including you or me if we read it through our own bias'

-Waterfall -- This is why I said GODS Spirit is Truth He has given us it to learn not by the mind of man. But by His mind and His way.[/QUOTE]
And the Spirit is perfect. If only we were all the same. Now airclean I would like to ask you an important question. The Spirit, what say you - a force, or a person?

[/QUOTE] This is good question Jae. You have just asked me what man has been asking for at least 6.000 years. What is GOD. You see Jae The Holy Spirit is GOD. I can"t answer your question Jae. I do no that now I am a part of that Spirit" and it a part of me".
May GOD answer your question one day Jae, I know I have often asked the same thing He has said one day we will know.

 

[Luce NDs]

Of course god's mind is only in the head of a few chosen people ... guess who?

How does one know this? Of course some secret force told them! How does one know this voice? Throw your conscience away ... and become unconscionable. What's a scion ... that's something else, strange and hated by the people of god ...

 

[Waterfall]

This is not true Jae the Bible says.
Gen 19:3 But he urged them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.

Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house;

Gen 19:5 and they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them."
I don't think they were asking to shake hands with them. ,or to tell them of there gods. AS THEY PLAINLY SAID THEY WANTED TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM.

Pretty sure God was pissed off with that town and three others (Sodom, Gomorah, Admah and Zeboim), long before this particular event happened as we can see Abraham wrestling with God about the fate of the people BEFORE the angels (disguised as men) came to Lot's house. So I would think that he was going to destroy all of the people in those towns,which included women and children, for another reason other than men having sex with men.

S'dom means: burnt

Amorrah means: a ruined heap

Which suggests these towns were possibly named after they were destroyed.

 

[Luce NDs]

Thus a heap of burning crap in God's mind ... that fragmented part that we share pieces of ... why the parts of god are mostly over heated?

Some dipping may be required in a dirty river --- Nathan! Moody River?

 

[unsafe]

People there are 613 laws that God laid down in the Old Testament for Jewish people only if you were not a Jew you were not included in obeying the laws ----you were considered a Gentile --heathens --lawless people and away from God with no recourse to become reattached to God ----All Gentiles were Hell bound they abandon God and morally went their own way --Did God still love them after they abandoned God --Yes and sent His Son to include the Gentiles in the New Covenant of Grace so you are all arguing about something that only included Jewish People --- Sin can only occur when we break a law ----- If there is no Law there is no sin committed so the Gentiles if they slept with a member of the same sex did not commit a sin as they were not bound by the Laws set -----no man could keep the Laws that is why Jesus came to fulfill the laws ----He is the only person --Human to keep all 613 laws ----

The Gentiles were included in the Covenant to make the Jews jealous to accept Christ and abolish the Laws ---

Romans 11GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

God’s Continuing Love for Jewish People

11 So I ask, “Has Israel stumbled so badly that it can’t get up again?” That’s unthinkable! By Israel’s failure, salvation has come to people who are not Jewish to make the Jewish people jealous.12 The fall of the Jewish people made the world spiritually rich. Their failure made people who are not Jewish spiritually rich. So the inclusion of Jewish people will make the world even richer.

You can read all the 613 laws here ----http://www.gospeloutreach.net/613laws.html

These are God's laws for--- sinful Relations for Israel God's People ---the Jews---so this is a command
see law 21 ----A man must not have sexual relations with another man. (Leviticus 18:22)

Sinful Relationships

1. • A man must not have sexual relations with his mother. (Leviticus 18:7)
   • A man must not have sexual relations with his father's wife. (Leviticus 18:8)
   • A man must not have sexual relations with his sister. (Leviticus 18:9)
   • A man must not have sexual relations with his half-sister. (Leviticus 18:11)
   • A man must not have sexual have relations with his son's daughter. (Leviticus 18:10)
   • A man must not have sexual relations with his daughter's daughter. (Leviticus 18:10)
   • A man must not have sexual relations with his daughter. (Leviticus 18:10)
   • A man must not marry a woman and her daughter. (Leviticus 18:17)
   • A man must not marry a woman and her son's daughter. (Leviticus 18:17)
   • A man must not marry a woman and her daughter's daughter. (Leviticus 18:17)
   • A man must not have sexual relations with his father's sister. (Leviticus 18:12)
   • A man must not have sexual relations with his mother's sister. (Leviticus 18:13)
   • A man must not have sexual relations with his father's brother's wife. (Leviticus 18:14)
   • A man must not have sexual relations with his daughter-in-law. (Leviticus 18:15)
   • A man must not have sexual relations with his brother's wife. (Leviticus 18:16)
   • A man must not have sexual relations with one wife in the dwelling of another. (Leviticus 18:18)
   • A man must not approach a menstruous woman for sexual relations or in any way to become ritually unclean by her. (Leviticus 18:19)
   • Do not commit adultery. (Leviticus 18:20)
   • A man must not have sexual relations with an animal. (Leviticus 18:23)
   • A woman must not have sexual relations with an animal. (Leviticus 18:23)
   • A man must not have sexual relations with another man. (Leviticus 18:22)
   • A man must not have sexual relations with a woman betrothed to another man. (Leviticus 19:20)
   • A man must not lust after any woman forbidden to him. (Leviticus 18:16)
   • A man must not have sexual relations with a woman until he has lawfully acquired her in marriage. (Exodus 22:16-17)
   • Do not allow your son or daughter to marry a godworshiper (a worshiper of false gods) who refuses to repent. (Deuteronomy 7:3, 23:2)
   • Do not allow your daughter to play the harlot, allowing her to commit fornication. (Leviticus 19:29)
   • A man must not have sexual relations with a woman who returns to him after having sexual relations with another man. (Deuteronomy 24:4)
   • A childless widow must not marry anybody outside of her husband's family. (Deuteronomy 25:5)
   • A man must not divorce a woman he married after having raped her. (Deuteronomy 22:29)
   • A man must not divorce a woman he married after having slandered her. (Deuteronomy 22:19)
   • A man must not allow himself to be castrated. (Deuteronomy 23:1)
   • A man must not divorce a woman, unless she committed premarital fornication. (Deuteronomy 24:1)

 

[Jaebius]

This is not true Jae the Bible says.
Gen 19:3 But he urged them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.

Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house;

Gen 19:5 and they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them."
I don't think they were asking to shake hands with them. ,or to tell them of there gods. AS THEY PLAINLY SAID THEY WANTED TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM.

Agreed that they expressed a desire to have sex.

 

[Luce NDs]

Thus a'mon originates from his mother's wish to relate to the father with the son entangled in the developing matter expressed through a soiled womb? Is that a fecund comment-airy or what?

A UN Official said the world is loosing soil ... or perhaps the dirt on how mankind survives in a hostile place ... cloes to the land? There's a time for you when laid out ... on the mount and dead to the whorled? A great metaphor of pilloried ...

Laws are for people who refuse to think ... gnoe knowledge thereof and thus called Gnostic ... as that was eliminated by laws of nostalgia ... whereas everything remains the same ... stoop if eyed like polity. The poitics thereof are referred to as Romanticism ... where people Luce ID through Lucid sects ... or relating to obscure scripture that is deep so they really don't have to know ... if they don't desire to ...

Moses bore a Gnoestic (sometimes called know stick) called Cain ... so those not paying attention to detailing could be whacked by the rod of Moses ... later known by Romans as Ca Duseus and thus in the sisterhood it was done again and someone was whacked out of their mind ... an err of life? Thus hommoephobia and the fear of learning whats paegan or commonly out there ... beyond the numb door ah bi!

It is something that you must get over or pas bi ... like the threshold of wisdom ...

Alas the brute forces still hate Ehyore when well thought out ... that's your smart ass personified!

 

[RitaTG]

So here we see a lot of Religions do not accept Homosexuality in their practice of their Religion -----seems Christianity is no different -----Religion is killing young gay people in my view -----

My goodness! ..... well said unsafe!! ... well said indeed!!

 

[RitaTG]

Religious people may be hurting young persons with same sex attractions but God loves them. Anyone with a true relationship with God should love them as well.

And exactly what does that "love" mean????
I have heard that so very often when beaten over the head with this issue...

 

[RitaTG]

No. What I believe is sinful is irrelevant. The Bible repeatedly affirms what sexual activity is sinful. Also, there is a distinction that needs to be made between desires and actions. We all have desires that go against our own morality that we have to subjegate to our will. We control those desires and don't act on them. To have a desire is not necessarily sinful in scripture. It is to give into that desire/temptation that is sinful.

Good grief Charlie Brown .......
Heterosexual persons are urged to marry to control their desires and "not sin" by them.
Homosexual persons are held to a much higher standard ...... we are "not to give in" .... but they are not???
Kinda stinks to me .......
As long as it does not infringe on what the heterosexuals do then it is ok to impose such....
Yep ... smells like hypocrisy to me....

 

[RitaTG]

What about humans who desire to murder? Or hurt children? Or take what does not belong to them? These are all human desires and are certainly not justified simply be being a human desire.

Of course ... equate homosexuality with whatever other outlandish perversion you can .....
Well ... given that .... I could far more justify the notion that to be a pastor is akin to desiring to be a pedophile.
I would not ever do so but there is far more statistical evidence for that notion.
How about putting your feet on the ground and stop alluding to homosexuals being more inclined and in the same camp as the extremes.

 

[RitaTG]

Agreed that they expressed a desire to have sex.

NO .... NO NO NO .......
Why have you disregarded what Isiah said about the SIN of Sodom and Gomorrah?
Why is it so hard to see that sex in the outrageous form of rape was used as a tool of oppression and control?
Actually ... I would submit that the "church" still uses sex as a tool of oppression and control.
So much for fair minded acceptance hospitality.
At this point I feel it is far too much to ask for love.....

 

[RitaTG]

It seems some here are more concerned with bashing Christian beliefs or religion in general than discussing treating gay youth with compassion and dignity.

Then I suggest you leave the youth alone ....
What you have said so far is what kills

 

[airclean33]

I believe that "the world" can corrupt God's word with the wrong translation through ignorance.

.

--So were do you take your teaching . Are the books you now read not of man?

[/QUOTE]-Really Waterfall you see I follow a living GOD . So tell me who there is that can corrupt GODS living Holy Spirit?[/QUOTE]

Nice switcheroo there.....Basically the Bible can be misunderstood, by humans, including you or me if we read it through our own bias'

.[/QUOTE]-Your last part of the post is right Waterfall.The Spirit of GOD must teach us the meaning.Then don't believe what I say ask GOD to show you.You do understand at the end time many false prophets will come and try to lead you astray. Listen to your Brothers of old. Did not The Apostles Paul say. If some one comes to you teaching different than I . Then they are not of GOD but satan.

 

[Jaebius]

NO .... NO NO NO .......
Why have you disregarded what Isiah said about the SIN of Sodom and Gomorrah?
Why is it so hard to see that sex in the outrageous form of rape was used as a tool of oppression and control?
Actually ... I would submit that the "church" still uses sex as a tool of oppression and control.
So much for fair minded acceptance hospitality.
At this point I feel it is far too much to ask for love.....

They expressed a desire to have sex RitaTG. I stand by that statement. That's what they said. Now, why have you chosen to disregard the fact that I gave three other interpretations of what their sin in truth was?

 

[RitaTG]

They expressed a desire to have sex RitaTG. I stand by that statement. That's what they said. Now, why have you chosen to disregard the fact that I gave three other interpretations of what their sin in truth was?

I have now read you other posts Jae and that has added a lot of understanding.
I had not read them before posting my comment as I was working through the thread from oldest to newest.
THANK YOU....
It would seem that we have quite a similar understanding.

 

[airclean33]

And if you were a youth who was being told that they could never enjoy the benefits of marriage and commitment, how loved would you feel?

--Here waterfall you say you like it.. What is posted here by BetteThe Red is a lie and we in Canada all know it. Gays may be married here and can live as a couple. I don't believe schools here teach different do you?