Alternative facts

[chansen]

"Alternative facts" is the phrase of the day. Trump advisor Kellyanne Conway said in an interview that press secretary Sean Spicer used "alternative facts" in his statements to reporters.

Somehow, that is not causing problems for many conservatives. Other people are losing it, because it's an obvious attempt to legitimize a series of lies.

Here is my concern: I fear that "alternative facts" are acceptable for religious people who have been accepting alternative facts for years. Taking things that are not fact, and treating them as fact, is a common approach in religion. It's normal. Outright lies are accepted as fact because they come from a place of authority and people want them to be true.

I think there is a similarity there that people are not willing to talk about because you can't criticize religion. Even here we see people proclaiming things that have no evidence behind them, and pointing that out is considered rude. I don't think we should consider debunking any claim as off-limits. We can't afford to give one "alternative fact" safe harbour.

 

[Luce NDs]

Take your facts to the alter and question them ... errr ... I forgot in church you're not allowed to question nothing, or everything that bothers demos!

Then of course have these people checked out the derivation and evolution of demos (an old Greek expression ... as damh demons ... thoughtful gods!

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Metaphors for existing facts are not the same as alternative facts...or lies. But when people take the bible literally, and without appreciating nuance..that is dishonest. The bible wasn't written to be an encyclopedia of fact. It is an artistic mirror reflecting truths about the human condition...and it's never rung more true to me than it is now.

I think that is separate though than ignoring an obvious and observable fact...in this case, it was about crowd sizes at the inauguration vs the march the next day... And saying there really are two sets of facts you could choose to believe about an event that took place here and now. That is scary. It makes me wonder what might be ahead - hopefully not a new level of media manipulation and propaganda. In a way though, Conway did the media a favour - she said "this is bullsh*t we're feeding you" without saying it directly - and gave the media the gift of knowing they need to be reporting, parsing out and looking for the real facts. It's the media's chance to redeem itself.

However, maybe if multiverse theory is true, in another world Trump had larger crowds at his inauguration. But not in this observable universe. I'll give him that.

Another thing is... She was probably trying to minimize her boss' tantrum. He seems to be able to make himself believe whatever he says even when it contradicts itself and he probably wasn't happy to be outshined by a protest against him in any way. She's protecting him from an ego meltdown. That might not be such a bad idea for the time being. ????

 

[BetteTheRed]

This is a bit more nuanced than it looks, however. Ask my two children about the same life event, and sometimes, you'd swear they were in different places.

 

[Luce NDs]

Metaphors for existing facts are not the same as alternative facts...or lies. But when people take the bible literally, and without appreciating nuance..that is dishonest. The bible wasn't written to be an encyclopedia of fact. It is an artistic mirror reflecting truths about the human condition...and it's never rung more true to me than it is now.

I think that is separate though than ignoring an obvious and observable fact...in this case, it was about crowd sizes at the inauguration vs the march the next day... And saying there really are two sets of facts you could choose to believe about an event that took place here and now. That is scary. It makes me wonder what might be ahead - hopefully not a new level of media manipulation and propaganda. In a way though, Conway did the media a favour - she said "this is bullsh*t we're feeding you" without saying it directly - and gave the media the gift of knowing they need to be reporting, parsing out and looking for the real facts. It's the media's chance to redeem itself.

However, maybe if multiverse theory is true, in another world Trump had larger crowds at his inauguration. But not in this observable universe.

If one has BS in the AEY of the observer would one aye be blind to negative visions?

 

[Luce NDs]

If one has BS in the AEY of the observer would one aye be blind to negative visions?

An alternative response to other observations that appear just ... crappy?

 

[Mendalla]

This is a bit more nuanced than it looks, however. Ask my two children about the same life event, and sometimes, you'd swear they were in different places.

Memories are iffy when it comes to determining facts. We see that in court all the time. OTOH, if you have a video or photos of the event that show what really happened, would they still cling to their variant versions claiming "alternative facts"? Because that is more or less what we are talking about here.

 

[Mrs.Anteater]

?? As far as I know, the term "Alternative Facts" was used after the pictures proved him wrong. So its simply a Trumpian word for "lie". Not sure what this has to do with religion, as dictators have been manipulating language traditionally without the need of any religious background. I.e. HItler did not use religion to manipulate people, neither did communist east Germany or Russia, but Language was big part of ideology. the US happens to be traditionally christian, so Trump mixes God into the equasion, as , of course, every US President is supposed to be blessed by God. He will use whatever gives him the power.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Even the right wing sites, except for Breitbart, are not impressed with the alternative facts statement.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Trump might end up being a good thing ??? Wake everybody up? Painful but necessary?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

?? As far as I know, the term "Alternative Facts" was used after the pictures proved him wrong. So its simply a Trumpian word for "lie". Not sure what this has to do with religion, as dictators have been manipulating language traditionally without the need of any religious background. I.e. HItler did not use religion to manipulate people, neither did communist east Germany or Russia, but Language was big part of ideology. the US happens to be traditionally christian, so Trump mixes God into the equasion, as , of course, every US President is supposed to be blessed by God. He will use whatever gives him the power.

Hitler did use religion in his rhetoric at times, didn't he? He tried to meld Christian and nazi identity in the minds of the public, and used segments of the church to propagandize, to some extent. Not disagreeing with the main gist of your point, though. They'll use whatever gives them power.

 

[Ichthys]

Alternative facts reminds me of another ridiculous thing that Seventh Day Adventist do. They call it it "Amazing Facts". Just as you might predict, the whole thing is about convincing people how evolution is a lie and that the Bible is to be taken literally when it comes to many things including the Creation story. Never mind there are two conflicting creation stories but that's another story.

 

[Luce NDs]

Are facts swayed by desires ... gravitas affection, or just un connecte' defect?

Like does a dissociative mind see as it wants?

Can wants and needs be prompted and primed by imposition of the hate that I don't have that (whether something needed ... ornot)?

Then there is the TED Talk on Poetry ... sly slips on undesired virtue for an emotionally led populace ... you know those peoples ... demos!

 

[Mrs.Anteater]

Hitler did use religion in his rhetoric at times, didn't he? He tried to meld Christian and nazi identity in the minds of the public, and used segments of the church to propagandize, to some extent. Not disagreeing with the main gist of your point, though. They'll use whatever gives them power.

Here some interesting info on Hitler and religion: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler.

 

[chansen]

Christians talking about the Christian appetite for alternative facts:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2017/january/facts-are-our-friends.html

 

[ChemGal]

Same issue I have with so called 'experts' being given an outlet by major media.
Saw a good comparison between alternative facts and alternative medicine.

 

[Luce NDs]

Same issue I have with so called 'experts' being given an outlet by major media.
Saw a good comparison between alternative facts and alternative medicine.

There is always another side ... but only two if you believe truth is flat out! Now what of the 5th and 6th estate?

 

[KayTheCurler]

I'm running out of patience! The 'alternative facts' are called lies in civilised places. Trump seems to be going for an A+ in impossible scenarios.

"Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
-- Lewis Carroll, Alice Through the Looking-Glass

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

this is about censorship

 

[Luce NDs]

this is about censorship

Thus it is cut out to be ... you can paste it in a dark spot that may be abstract ... a'rabbi'd ole thing? Volute as a twisted funnel ... scrolling out physical being in a vacuous sense ...