adulting

[ChemGal]

Jae's contributions to this thread make me think I've fallen down a rabbit hole. He has been taking care of his mother for nine years - but she is active and healthy and won't need that care if he decides to trot off somewhere else for weeks? The people I know who have needed care for years already are incapable of being totally independent. They may need help with personal care, food preparation and consumption, assistance to medical appointments, supervision of medications and many other things.

I don't know what the situation is with Jae's mother and what he means by care. I think it's moreso one of an interdependent relationship where she isn't reliant on care.

I have required some care from Chemguy for a few years, about 6 months especially. Most of the things you listed weren't the case though, it was mostly to do with medication administration and that was it. Having food brought to me on my really bad days was also appreciated.

 

[KayTheCurler]

I assisted my hubby with post operative care for a while. No way most people I know would describe that as 'her husband needs care'. Hubby doesn't describe doing the heavier household/yard jobs as giving me care. It is what we do for each other instead of paying someone else. Whole different ballgame than giving care for nine years.

 

[Jaebius]

Jae's contributions to this thread make me think I've fallen down a rabbit hole. He has been taking care of his mother for nine years - but she is active and healthy and won't need that care if he decides to trot off somewhere else for weeks? The people I know who have needed care for years already are incapable of being totally independent. They may need help with personal care, food preparation and consumption, assistance to medical appointments, supervision of medications and many other things.

There are different kinds of care Kay.

 

[ChemGal]

I assisted my hubby with post operative care for a while. No way most people I know would describe that as 'her husband needs care'. Hubby doesn't describe doing the heavier household/yard jobs as giving me care. It is what we do for each other instead of paying someone else. Whole different ballgame than giving care for nine years.

That's recovering from surgery.

Doing my IVs for years is different than that. I still get help from him on occasion with them.

 

[DaisyJane]

There are different kinds of care Kay.

As someone who spends a lot of time thinking about care I would be curious to hear you elaborate on this point.

 

[DaisyJane]

I am finding the caregiving drift of this thread interesting. As a mother of a child with significant disabilities one of the challenges for women like me is to differentiate when mothering changes to caregiving.

 

[ChemGal]

I am finding the caregiving drift of this thread interesting. As a mother of a child with significant disabilities one of the challenges for women like me is to differentiate when mothering changes to caregiving.

I think most mothering/parenting involves caregiving as well. The time and effort you have done might be greater than average. I'm sure too that some of the caregiving you have given some of your children wasn't given to Matthew due to differences in needs.

 

[Tabitha]

I have not lived with my parents since I was 16. I was launched early. They moved overseas. I did my gr 12 year with my aunt and uncle in a new prov. and then headed off to post secondary.
In my house you pay rent or go to school after grade 12. 2 are "full adults-with a degree or a red-seal certificate. Number 3 is home again and requires support due to mental health issues.
But all my kids can cook meals, run the dishwasher and do laundry. And all are fine with managing money.

 

[Tabitha]

@ daisyjane The difference is when the activities would decrease for other children.

For example all parents change diapers up to age 3. After age 3 I would consider it caregiving.

At age 11 children can be left at home alone for small periods of time. If , at this age, they need care and supervision 24/7 and you can't run to the store for milk without them, it becomes care-giving.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Yeah. I began paying a bit of rent in grade 12. I worked weekends. Then shortly after grade 12, that summer I moved out. For 25 years the longest I moved back with parents was for 2 weeks during a transition, when I was in my early 20s. Times have been trying since my husband and I split up and I don't have the same physical capacity that I used to. Even less right now.

Their caregiving lately has been to drive me to appointments. Though I have been taking the bus again. I've improved. And the time they helped me up off the floor was caregiving. I acknowledge they are too old to be doing real 'care'. I had a couple of home visits when needed but can manage my bathing myself now. Renting me a room to sleep in, and letting equipment into their bathroom, I guess is parenting? Or is it just family helping out family?

 

[DaisyJane]

@ daisyjane The difference is when the activities would decrease for other children.

For example all parents change diapers up to age 3. After age 3 I would consider it caregiving.

At age 11 children can be left at home alone for small periods of time. If , at this age, they need care and supervision 24/7 and you can't run to the store for milk without them, it becomes care-giving.

I know in caregiving ethics conversations I tend to take part in we also nuance the activity since there is often a qualitative difference. Yes, all infants needs 24 hour care, but not all infants need things like tube feedings, seizure management and so on. Similarly diaper changing is a lot more complicated if your child has a dislocated hip. I had a lengthy conversation with one ethicist about the fact that it isn't simply that I change Matthew's diapers at the age of 19, but that the task is qualitatively more demanding with his special needs.

 

[Tabitha]

Yes this is true as well. \He is heavier, harder transfer to change are etc. And the caregiver during a typical day with him, needs more and different skills than a regular child care provider.

 

[ChemGal]

I know in caregiving ethics conversations I tend to take part in we also nuance the activity since there is often a qualitative difference. Yes, all infants needs 24 hour care, but not all infants need things like tube feedings, seizure management and so on. Similarly diaper changing is a lot more complicated if your child has a dislocated hip. I had a lengthy conversation with one ethicist about the fact that it isn't simply that I change Matthew's diapers at the age of 19, but that the task is qualitatively more demanding with his special needs.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm minimizing the caregiving aspect.
I just tend to think of caring for children without special needs as being a form of caregiving too. Certainly differences between the 2 though.

 

[DaisyJane]

Not at all bothered.

I tend to jump into these conversations because our tendency to see mothering and caregiving as synonymous is often a problem for parents of very complex children. One of the main goals of the work I do is to deconstruct that narrative, talk about how it is different, and advocate for change/support. Because caregiving is often hidden - done behind closed doors - we often don't really unpack what is going on, how/why it is different, and why there is a definite need for support in complex situations.

Because we see mothering as something that requires little support outside of the family it becomes a problem when mothering a very complex, but also very young, child. All infants require 24 care, but most infants usually sleep in blocks of several hours allowing the mother to sleep. Sure it might be fragmented, but they're sleeping. If you need to suction your child's airway every 10 minutes then that 24-hour care has shifted even though both children, by definition, require 24 hour care. The mother of the complex care child isn't sleeping and nursing support is necessary. I differentiate the two forms of care and usually refer to the complex caregiving as "extreme maternal care" (and, of course, this can take many forms). Once a mother/parent has crossed into the latter outside help is almost always required to keep the mother and family functioning. In extreme situations these are mothers who have to carefully plan when they go to the bathroom or shower. I can remember when organizing when I might shower was a scheduling challenge.

I push back in these situations because my requests for support for were initially dismissed because "infants need 24 hour care so you're not different". It is only in more recent years that we're beginning to understand that, yes, the situations are in fact very different.

 

[KayTheCurler]

It seems that we, as a society, have vastly different takes on the word 'care'. It could be argued that they are all correct! I know someone who makes a lot of effort to remind people that she is the caregiver to her husband. She means she makes his meals, supervises his meds and does any necessary driving, including for medical appointments. Her husband walks himself to local places and is safe alone. Another doesn't describe herself as a 'caregiver' as she gets some regular time off thanks to friends and government programmes. She too makes meals, supervises meds and does the driving. Her husband needs close supervision as he tends to wander away and gets lost.

 

[DaisyJane]

Fair point. But the slippery definition of "care" creates significant challenges for those family members who truly provide complex care. This is why in all the work I do these days I label the forms of care I tend to talk about as "extreme care".

Extreme care is defined as:

The care required by the family member is demanding, unyielding, unending, and provided to an individual with whom the family member has a deep and emotionally intense bond. Parents who provide extreme parental care often live paradoxical lives where they are deeply and wholly devoted to their beloved child to the point of self sacrifice, while simultaneously feeling overwhelmed, exhausted, isolated, and even angry and resentful at times.

 

[KayTheCurler]

I see the difference in degree DaisyJane, and wish no one was faced with such circumstances. Heroes do the impossible without training sometimes. Hugs to you and those you know who have complex caregiving situations to live with.

 

[Mrs.Anteater]

Fair point. But the slippery definition of "care" creates significant challenges for those family members who truly provide complex care. This is why in all the work I do these days I label the forms of care I tend to talk about as "extreme care".

Extreme care is defined as:

The care required by the family member is demanding, unyielding, unending, and provided to an individual with whom the family member has a deep and emotionally intense bond. Parents who provide extreme parental care often live paradoxical lives where they are deeply and wholly devoted to their beloved child to the point of self sacrifice, while simultaneously feeling overwhelmed, exhausted, isolated, and even angry and resentful at times.

Reading this it came to my mind that this definition could also apply to parents with kids with mental health and/ or addiction issues.

 

[ChemGal]

@DaisyJane I like the terms complex caregiving vs. caregiving as you described for infants.

What Chemguy did for me would probably be well described as specialized caregiving. It wasn't all the time, although there were times we both felt uncomfortable without him at least being in the same city. The need for him to be available to me for emergencies regarding home treatment decreased as I got better, but I still wanted that help when on a regular IV schedule to help prevent vein damage so that ongoing it wouldn't become more difficult. It's not something where a random person could easily step in.

 

[Jaebius]

@DaisyJane I like the terms complex caregiving vs. caregiving as you described for infants.

What Chemguy did for me would probably be well described as specialized caregiving. It wasn't all the time, although there were times we both felt uncomfortable without him at least being in the same city. The need for him to be available to me for emergencies regarding home treatment decreased as I got better, but I still wanted that help when on a regular IV schedule to help prevent vein damage so that ongoing it wouldn't become more difficult. It's not something where a random person could easily step in.

Designating complex care vs. care is something I like the idea of too. What we provide for my mom is definitely not complex care. My mom is very independent for someone in their eighties. The kind of stuff we do for her include cooking some meals, doing some driving, shovelling her driveway, doing lawn care, gardening, doing some cleaning, and running some errands. There is also the ministry of presence.