The Christian Downfall ---The Error Of Balaam

[airclean33]

Transformation is never complete George. Not in this life anyway. We're all imperfect works in progress. But yes, I believe all Christians have begun the process of transformation under the influence of the Holy Spirit. As for fruits of the Spirit, I see them all over. I'm rather sad for you that you apparently don't.

Hi revsdd-- I myself agree with George. Here is one of the verses that help me understand. perhaps it can help you. See what you see rev.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Sama'ria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John,
Act 8:15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit;

Act 8:16 for it had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 8:17
Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

It is also what happend to me. .GOD Bless--airclean33

 

[Neo]

I believe that's the way to best live, too. Can people who are not Christians, live it? I believe they can. And I suppose what I am saying is even atheists and agnostics can. They may not believe in the biblical God. But if they can love peace and support efforts toward peace...that's the essence of Christ, the ideal, as opposed to the label. God will tap them on the shoulder if God needs to. It's not up to me to convert anyone. Wherever there are people working for peace- which includes equality - God's already working and we shouldn't get in the way we should support no matter their religion or not. It's hard to articulate. But I really, really believe it. I feel it in my bones. In my whole being. The smallest examples of it move me. It's just frustrating because there's no consensus that we need to all work together for it. Not yet. We keep competing for our own individual interests. We get in the way of our own better selves.

I agree Kimmio, you don't have to be Christian to be "born again". Christ, I'm assuming, couldn't care less what religion we belong to, or if one is even religious at all. As long as we "love one another", seems to be His primary concern, for only in the unity of Humanity will we find the true Christ Consciousness. The following are a few quotes from the Alice Bailey / Tibetan books regarding the 1st Initiation, which is the Birth of the Christ / Soul awareness within:

FIRST INITIATION: (Birth)

(1) At the first initiation, the control of the Ego over the physical body must have reached a high degree of attainment. "The sins of the flesh", as the Christian phraseology has it, must be dominated; gluttony, drink, and licentiousness must no longer hold sway. The physical elemental will no longer find its demand obeyed; the control must be complete and the lure departed. A general attitude of obedience to the Ego must have been achieved, and the willingness to obey must be very strong. The channel between the higher and the lower is widened, and the obedience of the flesh practically automatic. (1 - 82).

(2) After this (first) initiation the initiate is taught principally the facts of the astral plane; he has to stabilise his emotional vehicle and learn to work on the astral plane with the same facility and ease as he does on the physical plane... (1 - 84).

(3) The first initiation is within reach of many, but the necessary one-pointedness and the firm belief in the reality ahead, coupled to a willingness to sacrifice all rather than turn back, are deterrents to many. If this book serves no other purpose than to spur some one to renewed believing effort, it will not have been written in vain. (1 - 111).

(4) The first initiation simply stands for commencement. A certain structure of right living, of thinking and of conduct has been attained; the form that the Christ is to occupy has been constructed, and now that form is to be vivified and indwelt. The Christ life enters and the form becomes alive. (4 - 352).

(11) The lives of initiates of the first initiation, are beginning to be controlled by the Christ-consciousness, which is the consciousness of responsibility and service... (18 - 571).

(12) The first initiation marks the beginning of a totally new life and mode of living; it marks the commencement of a new manner of thinking, and of conscious perception. The life of the personality in the three worlds has for aeons nurtured the germ of this new life, and fostered the tiny spark of light within the relative darkness of the lower nature. This process is now being brought to a close, though it is not at this stage entirely discontinued, for the "new man" has to learn to walk, to talk, and to create; the consciousness is now, however, being focussed elsewhere. This leads to much pain and suffering until the definite choice is made, a new dedication to service is vouchsafed, and the initiate is ready to undergo the Baptism of Initiation. (18 - 667).

 

[airclean33]

It I also believe by reading about Paul coming to the Lord. Also happened to him. His eyes were opened by the laying on of hands Acts 9:17

 

[revsdd]

Hi revsdd-- I myself agree with George. Here is one of the verses that help me understand. perhaps it can help you. See what you see rev.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Sama'ria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John,
Act 8:15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit;

Act 8:16 for it had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 8:17
Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

It is also what happend to me. .GOD Bless--airclean33

You interpret this as meaning that the people of Samaria were "Christians." I interpret it as meaning that they had heard the word of God and believed that participation in a ritual (water baptism) made them Christians. The apostles then prayed for them to receive the Holy Spirit (to understand that one did not become a Christian by participating in a ritual but by being transformed.) The Holy Spirit then came upon them as their eyes were opened to the fact that what mattered was not outward conformity to a ritual, but inward transformation, characterized by them receiving the Holy Spirit. That was the point at which they came to understand that being a Christian was about following the way of Christ and not about being baptized in water. These were not Christians who had not been born from above; these were people who had not yet become Christians. They had only heard the word and participated in a ritual. That's what the Holy Spirit's telling me anyway. Hope that helps, airclean.

 

[Jaebius]

-- Once more Jae I thought this one would need an explanation. Heres GODS word Jae.

1Th 4:17 then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Amen brother - but that's not flying,

 

[Neo]

Amen brother - but that's not flying,

It's an elevated awareness that makes it "appear" one is in the air.

 

[blackbelt1961]

I remember years ago reading a book about a Hindu minister in India, someone asked him do you believe in Jesus, the Hindu replied, I know exactly who Jesus is the son of God, but God himself has place me here amongst the Hindus because God loves them also

 

[airclean33]

Kimmio said: ↑
I believe that's the way to best live, too. Can people who are not Christians, live it? I believe they can. And I suppose what I am saying is even atheists and agnostics can. They may not believe in the biblical God. But if they can love peace and support efforts toward peace...that's the essence of Christ, the ideal, as opposed to the label. God will tap them on the shoulder if God needs to. It's not up to me to convert anyone. Wherever there are people working for peace- which includes equality - God's already working and we shouldn't get in the way we should support no matter their religion or not. It's hard to articulate. But I really, really believe it. I feel it in my bones. In my whole being. The smallest examples of it move me. It's just frustrating because there's no consensus that we need to all work together for it. Not yet. We keep competing for our own individual interests. We get in the way of our own better selves.

I agree Kimmio, you don't have to be Christian to be "born again". Christ, I'm assuming, couldn't care less what religion we belong to, or if one is even religious at all. As long as we "love one another", seems to be His primary concern, for only in the unity of Humanity will we find the true Christ Consciousness. The following are a few quotes from the Alice Bailey / Tibetan books regarding the 1st Initiation, which is the Birth of the Christ / Soul awareness within:

Kimmio and Neo---I was thinking I won't post on this because we are getting a bit off thread. But I just can't let what your posting go by.
First I don't think Kimmio is talking about being Born again. I believe she means different faiths. But then she can tell you that.
Neo as far as I can understand the Holy Spirit is given through Christ Jesus. So how other faiths can become born again , I have no Idea. I would say you both mite want to read about the early church and see how they worked.
Did they preach that you could hold onto there old faith?
Did they not say to them the Man called Jesus" The Christ was The only way?
Do either of you, have verses and chapters to show the Apostles where thinking or teaching another way than what I just said.?
If what you"v posted is your belief . Then we are very far apart. My Belief is only the true son of GOD can help us. To me as a Christain that name is Jesus The Christ I am His follower. I will kneel to no other so called god . Nor will I accept any that do. . As Tomas said He is my LORD and my GOD. I agree they have every right to believe what ever they wish. That ofcouse is there choice".We all must make one.----airclean33

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[Kimmio Laughterlove]

I agree Kimmio, you don't have to be Christian to be "born again". Christ, I'm assuming, couldn't care less what religion we belong to, or if one is even religious at all. As long as we "love one another", seems to be His primary concern, for only in the unity of Humanity will we find the true Christ Consciousness. The following are a few quotes from the Alice Bailey / Tibetan books regarding the 1st Initiation, which is the Birth of the Christ / Soul awareness within:

I don't think Christ cares what religion we belong to either. He gives examples in the Bible of looking at the heart of the person not their religion. The good Samaritan and the Pheonecian woman are the two examples that always stand out in my memory. We either care about humanity and want peace, or we don't. That's the thing we have to have our hearts set on.

The thing with the excerpt you posted above, although it's interesting to read, it is also quite a strict doctrine - and in essence it talks about unity - but I am not sure that we're not making it too complicated with all the many doctrines that exist.

 

[airclean33]

Hi rev sdd-- I tell you what Steve you don't cut my post off where you want them . I won't do the same to you.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Sama'ria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John,
Act 8:15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit;

Act 8:16 for it had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 8:17
Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

AIRCLEAN--Can you show me where you think there not saved?
Can you show where they came to preach to them?
Myself Rev I only see where they prayed for them .Because they where already baptized in the name of The Lord Jesus.
I see they came to lay hands on them, so they then recived The Holy Spirit. Now I know you may not like this or want to agree . But thats what it says. God Bless---- airclean33

 

[airclean33]

I remember years ago reading a book about a Hindu minister in India, someone asked him do you believe in Jesus, the Hindu replied, I know exactly who Jesus is the son of God, but God himself has place me here amongst the Hindus because God loves them also

--I am sure He dose Brother. As John 3:16 says GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD. Have you forgotten?

 

[airclean33]

It's an elevated awareness that makes it "appear" one is in the air.

--Is that like when Christ Jesus left and was take up into heaven? Or how He shell return?
You do understand eagles fly high in the sky? God Bless ---airclean33

 

[Neo]

The thing with the excerpt you posted above, although it's interesting to read, it is also quite a strict doctrine - and in essence it talks about unity - but I am not sure that we're not making it too complicated with all the many doctrines that exist.

Is it is strict doctrine? Perhaps, but to me it's a much more scientific approach to religion.

I admit, it can be hard read sometimes Kimmio. I totally remember when I first started read these books, it usually requires a second, third or more reading to even begin to grasp what the Tibetan is saying, but it can eventually generate intuitional flashes of insights, (which is your Soul speaking to you). People react differently when they read the words of a Master, but as the old teachings say, when a Master speaks the student should listen. It is the same with how people read the Bible, flashes of inspirational illumination floods the mind, and the aspirant attributes the whole experience to an external God or Holy Spirit. But it's through the Soul that we reach God.

As much as we are a reflection to the Mind the Soul, so is the Soul to God pure Energy. Religion has nothing to do with these flashes of insights, it is the evolution of the eternal Mind that leads is on. Religion is man's attempt to deal with this interaction between body and spirit.

 

[revsdd]

Hi rev sdd-- I tell you what Steve you don't cut my post off where you want them . I won't do the same to you.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Sama'ria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John,
Act 8:15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit;

Act 8:16 for it had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 8:17
Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

AIRCLEAN--Can you show me where you think there not saved?
Can you show where they came to preach to them?
Myself Rev I only see where they prayed for them .Because they where already baptized in the name of The Lord Jesus.
I see they came to lay hands on them, so they then recived The Holy Spirit. Now I know you may not like this or want to agree . But thats what it says. God Bless---- airclean33

First I didn't cut off your post. I quoted your words in their entirety, so I'm not sure what you mean by "don't cut my post off where you want them." It's all there.

Second - and this is the basis of the whole disagreement with unsafe - I'm not saying that the Scripture says that. I'm saying that its my interpretation of the Scripture. I acknowledge that I could be in error. But that is what I believe. Now, if unsafe had merely said from the start of the discussion about Cain and Abel that it was her interpretation of the Scripture and that she could be in error I would probably not have even bothered replying to her. I am curious, though. Why do you accept the opinion of unsafe as accurate when what she says has no explicit foundation in Scripture, but reject what I say when what I say has no explicit foundation on Scripture?

As to why I believe what I believe, it's because Acts 8:16 seems to highlight the fact of a water baptism; seems to suggest that they believed that water baptism was sufficient and nothing else was required. On the surface at least while they had heard the word of God, all that they seemed to have taken from it was - you must be baptized with water. They were therefore placing their faith in a ritual rather than in Christ, and not allowing themselves to be transformed, because they didn't believe transformation was necessary since they had engaged in the ritual. Outward adherence to ritual without inward transformation does not make one a Christian. Thus, my interpretation of the text in question.

 

[Neo]

First I didn't cut off your post. I quoted your words in their entirety, so I'm not sure what you mean by "don't cut my post off where you want them." It's all there.

AC, you have to click on the fading words in the quote box, it'll open the whole post.

 

[airclean33]

I remember years ago reading a book about a Hindu minister in India, someone asked him do you believe in Jesus, the Hindu replied, I know exactly who Jesus is the son of God, but God himself has place me here amongst the Hindus because God loves them also

-Hi Blackbelt---I am sure GOD did Love them an still dose, would that mean there saved ? I don't think so , or have you forgot John3:16. GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD.Dose this mean the world is save?--airclean33

 

[Delightful Life]

intuitional flashes of insights, (which is your Soul speaking to you).

I have unintentionally frightened my wife with some of those

It's amazing what connexions can just occur, naturally, when reading something...concepts I would never have considered before just pop into view...usually it happens I think in a collective sense, the book linking up with other books etc I have experienced

Just like what will happen to you during that The Theoretical Minimum course...things that you will have never considered will pop into view, new existences will become real...

Oh, the marvels of education :3

 

[airclean33]

Hi revsdd--you are right . It was covered up by the quote box . Please accept my apology steve.
Then I must ask did you not get anything from 8-16 or 8-17?

 

[airclean33]

My thanks to you Neo. airclean Gord.

 

[Neo]

Neo as far as I can understand the Holy Spirit is given through Christ Jesus. So how other faiths can become born again , I have no Idea. I would say you both mite want to read about the early church and see how they worked.
Did they preach that you could hold onto there old faith?

Are you suggesting that Christianity predates the old faiths like Hinduism? And besides, it's not a matter of holding onto old faiths, it's a matter of not throwing the baby out with the bath water when it comes to what to believe and what not to believe. All of the religions have pearls of wisdom that we need to extract and the greater the understanding on our part we more we get to be taken up into a world of light and love and understanding.

Did they not say to them the Man called Jesus" The Christ was The only way?
Do either of you, have verses and chapters to show the Apostles where thinking or teaching another way than what I just said.?

As I've said AC, the Christ is much bigger than the Christian religion that followed Him. The Christ Consciousness includes the Oneness of Humanity (and beyond), which is why Christ said this, at the end of the last supper; He said: "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." This is the Oneness of Humanity, not just of Christians.