And they're off...the election thread

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
From what I have seen on TV, while Harper is successful in keeping all but the most trusted of supporters out of any venue where he is campaigning people are showing up to line the street with protest signs and chants.
Are any of the other parties experiencing this in any great numbers?
Years ago, probably in Harper's second election, my son suggested that each ballot not only have a spot to vote for your favourite but also a spot to vote against the one you most didn't want to win. Then say Candidate A gets ten votes for and six against, he is credited with 4 votes. Candidate B gets 8 votes for and only two against for 6 votes. Candidate C gets 2 for and none against. Candidate B wins.
An alternate way would be for voters to rank their choices: Candidate B - first choice, C - second choice. A - third choice. Give 1st choice 3 points, 2nd choice 2 points, 3rd choice 1 point - then add the points.
 
Trudeau faced some protesters here and elsewhere - I think it was about pipelines - and wasn't well received here for his C51 position. Recently, I saw in the news, he let a protester make a statement/ ask a question into the mic, and he answered it. Not fully to the protester's liking, but at least he answered it. I don't think Harper would've done that. He has protesters escorted out. I think, but I could be mistaken, had a protester who was protesting about the Syrian refugees following the toddler drowning, arrested for disturbing the peace or something. I think I read that he was arrested but released. The guy showed up with a protest T-shirt on under his jacket, and almost got into a photo op.

Mulcair told a crowd who was protesting at one of his events to hush and be more respectful.

Like I said, none of the candidates is perfect. Trudeau has his good points I'm just not sure I trust him to be solid with his policies, or even some of the positions he's taken. He is too rookie to be PM. He's going to be here on Thurs. I considered checking the event out - but, alas, I have an appointment around the same time.
 
Trudeau is a rookie????

Does Harper with his silver spoon background know experience when he sees it???

Good Lord help us discern ... but then if we depend on other powers ... what's the chance ...
 
@Luce NDs Yeah, I think Trudeau is a rookie. He has a political family background - got dragged along by his dad as a kid - but he doesn't have much of a political career background. He became a drama teacher while his dad was alive. (Hmm. Drama teacher...on second thought...:p) I think he's got his mom in him more strongly. And he also had a silver spoon background.

Harper has had a bit of trouble with his appointees hasn't he? But I'm not voting for him anyway.

Mulcair does have political experience and seems okay. But just okay, not fantastic.
 
Maybe you're right. It's just that when Trudeau says, "Maybe I was naive" about supporting something several prominent and educated people, including past PM's, have spoken out adamantly and urgently against - I believe him. It was naive. And unfortunate, because he lost a lot of support - especially out here, I think.

But, in his mind, it was a "naive" political move - rather than a naive ethical decision.
 
Do we earn from naïveté? One might be required to be standoffish to see it ... outlander? That lost horizon scheme ... when you see :) ... peaking over it ... as PAC man ... stuffed full of light ... generated in a dark core if you believe science on rendered light in a very heavy spot ... a gravid point source?
 
What I like about Trudeau is that he isn't afraid to say what he thinks or feels. What concerns me most about Trudeau is that he appears to feel more than he thinks. Not a problem if he is confident enough in his self to appoint others with more chops to work on stuff that might be a shade over his head.

I also like that Mulcair is also not afraid to say what he thinks or feels. I get the impression that Muclair does a better job of balancing thinking and feeling and while I don't always agree with how he thinks he doesn't scare me.

My problem with Harper is that he is unabashedly Machiavellian. He will say or do anything to keep the reigns of power. I perceive that he thinks more than he feels and I really do not like the way that he thinks. His entire run as Prime Minister has been laced with attack ads against political rivals. I cannot remember anything so brazenly partisan in Canadian politics in my lifetime outside of an actual election campaign.

My problem with May is that at this point the greens are just sound-bites. I haven't been able to see them as the official opposition or the government I have no idea what they are actually capable of.

At this point I'd take someone naive over the incumbent I cannot trust at all.
 
I agree. I'd rather Trudeau than the incumbent. I watched/ read transcript of the two latest Mansbridge interviews. Harper, then Trudeau. Neither were all that unexpected, although I did think Harper seemed more humble than in past interviews. Probably because he's not a shoo-in, and he knows it. Trudeau did explain his C51 position satisfactorily but I still am not happy with him for taking that position. I expect Mulcair's interview with Mansbridge will be next. I'm not happy with recent revelations about Mulcair's past support of water exports. May is the one I am least unhappy with - even despite junk science (I don't think they're hugely important issues or positions she's set in stone about) and giddy dinner gaffes - she speaks truth to power. I have read her Twitter feeds from sessions of Parliament - she truly is an honest politician and quite a powerhouse herself - but a humble and real one - for her little party. But, like I keep saying, I feel like I shouldn't vote Green because she is absolutely not going to be PM - not this time around. It's going to be Lib or NDP for me - likely NDP, but I don't know for sure now.
 
Last edited:
Kimmio said:
@Luce NDs Yeah, I think Trudeau is a rookie. He has a political family background - got dragged along by his dad as a kid - but he doesn't have much of a political career background. He became a drama teacher while his dad was alive. (Hmm. Drama teacher...on second thought...:p) I think he's got his mom in him more strongly. And he also had a silver spoon background.

Harper has had a bit of trouble with his appointees hasn't he? But I'm not voting for him anyway.

Mulcair does have political experience and seems okay. But just okay, not fantastic.
Click to expand...

You've really bought into Conservative propaganda about Trudeau. He has vastly more experience as a Member of Parliament than Harper did when he became Prime Minister. Of recent PMs, he's also had more time in Parliament than several others who've become PM (Kim Campbell, Brian Mulroney, Joe Clark and - yes - Pierre Trudeau had the same or less experience than Justin when they became PM) and Trudeau was NOT a drama teacher. He was a French and math teacher. He filled in as a drama teacher when a colleague was on sabbattical as I understand it. And even if he was a drama teacher - what's wrong with being a drama teacher? Harper on the other hand (aside from working in an oil company mail room for a few years) has been an assistant to an MP, an MP, and the head of a lobby group, before becoming Prime Minister. I'd say Trudeau has vastly more life experience than Harper.

Mulcair? He's OK. He's been a very effective Opposition Leader, and if the trends seen in recent polls hold (but there is still a long way to go) he'll continue being a very effective Opposition Leader but facing off against Trudeau rather than Harper. But it is hard for me to see Mulcair as a real "progressive" if only because he used to be a Liberal, served in a Liberal government in Quebec headed by a Premier who used to be a Conservative before he became a Liberal.
 
revjohn said:
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/comm...nservative-not-the-christian-thing-to-do.html

Well when this man decides to burn bridges he goes about it very deliberately.
Click to expand...

As I posted on Facebook, my only real quibble with Coren is that I'm not sure I'd approach this from such an overtly partisan perspective, but I do think that people of faith need to be guided by faith in their politics as in anything else. From a Christian point of view it seems to me that the current obsessions over lowering "my taxes" and making "me" prosperous and focussing on "my" rights and making "me" afraid for "my" safety (and it's not just one party doing it) are the antithesis of the gospel. As a Christian I think I should vote to support those policies that I believe will have the most benefit for the most people, and especially for those with the most need, rather than just for my own self-interest. We may not as Christians agree on which party's policies do that, but that principle should guide our decisions.
 
revsdd said:
You've really bought into Conservative propaganda about Trudeau. He has vastly more experience as a Member of Parliament than Harper did when he became Prime Minister. Of recent PMs, he's also had more time in Parliament than several others who've become PM (Kim Campbell, Brian Mulroney, Joe Clark and - yes - Pierre Trudeau had the same or less experience than Justin when they became PM) and Trudeau was NOT a drama teacher. He was a French and math teacher. He filled in as a drama teacher when a colleague was on sabbattical as I understand it. And even if he was a drama teacher - what's wrong with being a drama teacher? Harper on the other hand (aside from working in an oil company mail room for a few years) has been an assistant to an MP, an MP, and the head of a lobby group, before becoming Prime Minister. I'd say Trudeau has vastly more life experience than Harper.

Mulcair? He's OK. He's been a very effective Opposition Leader, and if the trends seen in recent polls hold (but there is still a long way to go) he'll continue being a very effective Opposition Leader but facing off against Trudeau rather than Harper. But it is hard for me to see Mulcair as a real "progressive" if only because he used to be a Liberal, served in a Liberal government in Quebec headed by a Premier who used to be a Conservative before he became a Liberal.
Click to expand...
No. I haven't at all. I don't think I've watched a single Conservative attack ad - don't have cable. I've only read about them, but critiques of them. I don't pay much attention to their partisan attacks at all. I have thought that about Trudeau, that he's a rookie, after listening to him in interviews and news clips, for ages. Absolutely no outside influence from anyone - he just has given me that impression.

Nothing's actually wrong with being a drama teacher - and maybe a bit of acting's required in politics anyway. ;) but seriously, he has struck me as naive for a long time. He's not nearly as popular here as he is out there. So, it's going to be a close call. But I think a lot of left of centre Ontarians think he's got it in the bag - he doesn't.

I don't really think Mulcair is all that progressive.
 
Last edited:
When I read news from Ontario, I get a Trudeau vs. Harper vibe. When I read news from here, it's much more a Mulcair vs. Harper vibe. (I read Toronto Star and Vancouver Sun - and Huffington Post and CBC which seem to favour neither.)
 
Kimmio said:
No. I haven't at all. I don't think I've watched a single Conservative attack ad - don't have cable. I've only read about them, but critiques of them. I don't pay much attention to their partisan attacks at all. I have thought that about Trudeau, that he's a rookie, after listening to him in interviews and news clips, for ages. Absolutely no outside influence from anyone - he just has given me that impression.

Nothing's actually wrong with being a drama teacher - and maybe a bit of acting's required in politics anyway. ;) but seriously, he has struck me as naive for a long time. He's not nearly as popular here as he is out there. So, it's going to be a close call. But I think a lot of left of centre Ontarians think he's got it in the bag - he doesn't.

I don't really think Mulcair is all that progressive.
Click to expand...

Respectfully, you referred to Trudeau as "a drama teacher." You just thought that up? All by yourself you came to the conclusion that, "Trudeau must have been a drama teacher." No outside influence at all on that? Really? First, as I pointed out, it isn't true. He's a French and math teacher. Second, the only people who have promoted the idea that Trudeau is a drama teacher are the Conservative Party, showing their strategy of attacking and trying to smear their opponents, regardless of whether their attacks and smears are true or not. So, by calling Trudeau "a drama teacher," you've demonstrated that you've listened to and been influenced by Conservative propaganda and not bothered to learn the truth.

Curious as to your reaction to Trudeau's actual experience compared to the current and former PMs vis a vis your perception of his experience.

Incidentally, I'm not a partisan and have no vested interest in the Liberal Party or Trudeau, although I may vote for them this time for the first time since 1997. I'm more interested, though, in how the Conservatives have repeatedly been able to bring down their opponents by making dishonest caricatures of them become the public perception of them.
 
Does anyone know how long it takes for Elections Canada to update the candidates? I've found a list with 5, but only 3 are on the website. The Liberal candidate isn't listed, even though I had at least come across her name (I think it was back then) when the NDP was still sorting it out, seems odd NDP is up but Liberals aren't.
 
revsdd said:
Respectfully, you referred to Trudeau as "a drama teacher." You just thought that up? All by yourself you came to the conclusion that, "Trudeau must have been a drama teacher." No outside influence at all on that? Really? First, as I pointed out, it isn't true. He's a French and math teacher. Second, the only people who have promoted the idea that Trudeau is a drama teacher are the Conservative Party, showing their strategy of attacking and trying to smear their opponents, regardless of whether their attacks and smears are true or not. So, by calling Trudeau "a drama teacher," you've demonstrated that you've listened to and been influenced by Conservative propaganda and not bothered to learn the truth.

Curious as to your reaction to Trudeau's actual experience compared to the current and former PMs vis a vis your perception of his experience.

Incidentally, I'm not a partisan and have no vested interest in the Liberal Party or Trudeau, although I may vote for them this time for the first time since 1997. I'm more interested, though, in how the Conservatives have repeatedly been able to bring down their opponents by making dishonest caricatures of them become the public perception of them.
Click to expand...
Actually, I knew for a long time that Justin Trudeau had been a high school teacher in BC. Here in Vancouver, in fact. I may have even brushed shoulders with him somewhere and not realized who he was, in the day. You're right, he taught more than drama. But the drama bit stood out. I think I might've learned about the drama teacher role when he was wearing his swashbuckling goatee on an Evan Soloman interview ages ago - somebody remarked on it, and to my memory it wasn't any Conservative attack, it was friendly. I always though he was handsome - and I have nothing against drama classes. He didn't get into politics until sometime in the 2000s. It was not a big ambition of his early on to have a political career in his dad's footsteps.

As for Harper, he's been an MP since the early 90s and he helped facilitate the Conservative/ Alliance merger. He has more political leadership experience, even though I do not agree with his politics. (I had to look up how long he'd been MP but I knew it was a long time. Harper's been at politics twice as long as Justin Trudeau, and particularly leadership roles.)

Justin is quite a bit younger - almost the same age as me - and that doesn't mean he can't do it, of course, but I don't think he's experienced enough yet. I have nothing against him as a person. He seems like a nice guy.

And Mulcair's been at politics longer than Harper. Oh...and law. I forgot about that for a minute. How could I after his cross examination of Harper in the House of Commons?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top