An article "The church is killing its gay kids"

[unsafe]

BetteTheRed -------Your Quote -------(I don't actually believe in the theology behind the "fall", preferring the original Jewish interpretation that the story represents a metaphor for humanity's rise into self-consciousness.)

Thank you ----you at least gave what you believe and that says why you believe what you believe about homosexuality -----so you believe then that there was no sin in the garden and that we are all with God and were never separated from Him ------ so if this is the case then all groups are with God ---there is no sin nature ---all people are righteous from birth so all groups are righteous in their actions -----Is this what you believe ?????------I no nothing about rising into self --consciousness ---can you explain that please ??------

 

[Luce NDs]

The fall allowed for subliminal thoughts that were the devil to people who believe thought and knowledge is rigid and cannot change as in ongoing outlandish wisdom ...

Some of the fixated cannot get over this foundational hurtle of biblical English evolving from a spectrum of old language bases ...!

 

[blackbelt1961]

OK Brother Tell me . Do you believe as GODS Word that it states . A man shell not lay with a man , as with a women. Nor a women Lay with a women as with a Man?

Aricleen Brother, what I understand is , that there is a difference between the " Letter of the Law" & "the Spirit of the Law"


2 Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

offer Life Aircleen, the letter has already taken effect

 

[unsafe]

Waterfall ------ Romans 8 -----Romans 8New King James Version (NKJV)
Free from Indwelling Sin and ---Sonship Through the Spirit

this Scripture-- Romans 8 is speaking to people who have accepted Christ and have the Holy Spirit and who are free from sin -----So are you saying that all Groups have the Holy Spirit and those who are molesting children can never be separated from God -----

This is the scripture you quoted ----

Romans 8:38-39GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
38 I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love which Christ Jesus our Lord shows us.[a] We can’t be separated by death or life, by angels or rulers, by anything in the present or anything in the future, by forces 39 or powers in the world above or in the world below, or by anything else in creation.

 

[Luce NDs]

I was told in no uncertain grounds that there is no such thing as a spirit ... they are not of this world except the ghost of love that comes across the void as a thought ... just a floating singularity ... if you can see one (1)!

Does this not put spirits of thought right out there in the imagined world of thought and intelligence that appears beyond us when you believe the bible literally that we don't know the difference between right and wrong if Gods children ... thus they didn't wish to know --- Exodus 20:19!

When the spirit of emotions slips along do thoughts of wisdom slide in? Such sliders will be the death of me ...

 

[airclean33]

Hi Blackbelt Brother --Your post--
airclean33 said: ↑
OK Brother Tell me . Do you believe as GODS Word that it states . A man shell not lay with a man , as with a women. Nor a women Lay with a women as with a Man?
Aricleen Brother, what I understand is , that there is a difference between the " Letter of the Law" & "the Spirit of the Law"


2 Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

offer Life Aircleen, the letter has already taken effect


Airclean--post--I understand BlackBelt we can and are forgiven of the sins we were doing before Christ came into our lives . This in way gives us the right to keep walking, in those sin"s. We must try and walk the way of GOD. That is as Jesus The Christ said was . I only do what GOD say"s . I only do what I see GOD Do.You or I cannot walk in the sin we were in , and still walk with a sinless GOD.If we make a mistake GOD will help us through it and I do almost every day. Because I still live in flesh which is against GODS Ways.

Yes I believe GOD LOVES Everyone Even saton and always will
Romans 8:38-39
38 I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love which Christ Jesus our Lord shows us.[a] We can’t be separated by death or life, by angels or rulers, by anything in the present or anything in the future, by forces 39 or powers in the world above or in the world below, or by anything else in creation.

 

[Luce NDs]

Do you know about leys and such lines that may not be truly virtue?

 

[BetteTheRed]

OK Brother Tell me . Do you believe as GODS Word that it states . A man shell not lay with a man , as with a women. Nor a women Lay with a women as with a Man?

You know that's not one quote, right? It's jumbling together Leviticus with Romans.

 

[airclean33]

You know that's not one quote, right? It's jumbling together Leviticus with Romans.

This is what you find in Romans Betty.

Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,

Rom 1:25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.

Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural,

Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

P.S--Do you for some reason believe , I don't have a Bible?

 

[revsdd]

unsafe, I'm not at all clear what you're on about with your questions about separating original sin with sin nature.

For what it's worth I believe in original goodness. All that God created God declared to be good. Sin is an aberration. I believe all people have an inner core of goodness. We all too often choose not to allow that inner core of goodness to control us. Thus I believe in both original goodness and a sinful nature as it were.

on homosexuality I suppose I would disagree with both you and RitaTG. I see it as neither gift nor curse. I see it as part of a person's identity. Could a pedophile make the same claim. Yes. But the substantive differences is that pedophilia causes harm to those who are vulnerable. "Whatever you do to one of the least of these you do to me." In harming, violating or exploiting a child you are doing the same to Jesus.

As to the biblical passages about homosexuality I've explained in other threads my interpretation of them and don't plan to do so again.

 

[Waterfall]

Waterfall ------ Romans 8 -----Romans 8New King James Version (NKJV)
Free from Indwelling Sin and ---Sonship Through the Spirit

this Scripture-- Romans 8 is speaking to people who have accepted Christ and have the Holy Spirit and who are free from sin -----So are you saying that all Groups have the Holy Spirit and those who are molesting children can never be separated from God -----

Is one sin greater than another?

 

[unsafe]

Waterfall your quote -----Is one sin greater than another?

----There is no sin that won't be forgiven but you have to accept Christ to qualify ----- and if you do accept Christ His Grace is in place to help you in your weakness to abstain from sin -----

 

[Waterfall]

Waterfall your quote -----Is one sin greater than another?

----There is no sin that won't be forgiven but you have to accept Christ to qualify ----- and if you do accept Christ His Grace is in place to help you in your weakness to abstain from sin -----

First of all I'm not saying that homosexuality is a sin to be forgiven, just to clarify.

To answer the above, Fortunately we are not God..... My understanding is there are no conditions for God's grace. With God everything is possible.

For years many thought the sin of Sodom and Gomorah was sodomy (some still do), new understanding tells us otherwise. What if we have misunderstood God about homosexuality? What if the error/sin is not honouring the truth of who you and others are, without shame?

 

[Jaebius]

You know that's not one quote, right? It's jumbling together Leviticus with Romans.

Knight-jump theology.

 

[Jaebius]

At most I have heard that Christ "dictated" scripture and folk wrote it verbatim. That is an understanding of scripture which is no longer in vogue.

Most now understand that the Holy Spirit inspired folk to write and those writings we receive as scripture.

The claim that Jesus wrote The Bible fails as fact specifically where we read Paul (for example) saying, "I write this greeting in my own hand" (1 Corinthians 16: 21, Romans 16: 22, Galatians 6: 11, Colossians 4: 18 or 2 Thessalonian 3: 17 among others.

The claim that Jesus wrote the entirety of scripture is a faulty one.

What I believe is that God put divine knowledge into the minds of humans who then wrote the Bible.

 

[revjohn]

True John -- But Gods Word dose say . In Book of JOHN 1: 3--
Jhn 1:3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made

Which in no way suggests that Jesus wrote scripture as you posted. It does suggest that scripture could not have existed without Jeses (the dictation and inspiration methods say the same. To use this text as a proof that Jesus wrote all of the scriptures is to force it to say what it definitely does not say.

Not sure your post here John . Are you now stating The Christ was not GOD and The Holy Spirit ?

The Christ is God the Son. I don't know why you would think I would deny that. Between the two of us I am the one with the orthodox Christology remember?

Our you as a Mister of The U.C.C Now Stating The Apostles Paul was not FULL of GODS Holy Spirit.

No. I am not stating that Paul was not full of God's Spirit. I am saying that being full of God's Spirit does not make one God. Paul clearly writes, in scripture no less, that he wrote the scripture.

Unless you are claiming that Paul is God or even Christ scripture itself is defeating your assertion that Jesus wrote it all.

I believe John The Claim that Jesus The Christ was The same GOD , and Spirit That wrote The Bible though those He Chose.I don't think this is to far off .

Which is fundamentally different than claiming Jesus wrote the Bible. At the very least you are now claiming that Jesus was the inspiration for those who wrote it.

I do not understand how you get by John 1: 3

Well I explain that above and I don't think I made it too difficult or complex to understand

 

[BetteTheRed]

This is what you find in Romans Betty.

Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,

Rom 1:25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.

Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural,

Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

P.S--Do you for some reason believe , I don't have a Bible?

But that's not what you said - you quoted a bit of Leviticus - man shall not lie with man as with a woman, then you added in your own interpretation of Romans.

Do you know that orthodox Judaism doesn't use Torah to forbid lesbian activity? They resort to a little known Babylonian Talmud passage that forbids "frottage"...

Cherry picking is one thing. Jamming two pieces of unrelated scripture together to condemn people is even worse, in my book.

 

[unsafe]

revsdd Thanks for your reply -----your quote -----unsafe, I'm not at all clear what you're on about with your questions about separating original sin with sin nature.

6166 flesh, sinful nature
6166 FLESH, SINFUL NATURE

Adams sin ---the original sin ---carried on to all Humans through birth ------we are all born with the Nature of Sin -----The sinful nature controls human behaviour in ways which run counter to God’s purposeRo 8:8See alsoRo 7:5

The sinful nature therefore makes people subject to God’s judgment and to death
Ro 8:13;Eph 2:3See alsoGal 6:8

Read all here ---https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/dictionary-of-bible-themes/6166-flesh-sinful-nature


So if we have a sin Nature from birth ---until we accept Christ according to His word we are away from God -------

Isaiah 59 ---
Context
Sin Separates Us from God

1Behold, the LORD'S hand is not so short That it cannot save; Nor is His ear so dull That it cannot hear.2But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.3 For your hands are defiled with blood And your fingers with iniquity; Your lips have spoken falsehood, Your tongue mutters wickedness.…

So Jesus is the only one who can free us from sin and reconnect us with God according to scripture ------So can now you separate this sin nature which controls human behaviour in ways which run counter to God’s purpose ----

So is homosexuality in God's purpose for us ?? and can we claim that being a homosexual is a gift from God and not a result of the fall of Adam and the sin Nature we are born under ------ -----and how do you justify that it is a gift from God and not as a result of our sin nature ------- that is my question

 

[revsdd]

Well, since I've said that I consider homosexuality neither a gift nor a curse, I'm not really in a position to answer that. I do believe, ultimately, that the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus.

 

[Seeler]

And was Jesus "going against God the Father" when he told his followers that all food is clean? After all, God had declared shrimp an "abomination" (actually t'oevah, "ritually unclean").

God had also declared all of creation to be GOOD in the first chapter of Genesis.