An article "The church is killing its gay kids"

[Jaebius]

Thank you for your post Seeler .....
If I may try and clarify a bit please....
When a person lives under mental abuse or in this case spiritual abuse their depression grows to the point of desperation.
This is the walk to the creek bank ..... they are being pushed there....
Whether or not the pushing is direct or intentional is not the point.
The point is is that the pushing is occurring.
There is a responsibility that the pushers must bear for their contribution and they need to take ownership of their part.
If a person or church is participating in the pushing then they also own part of the fault.
For the young ones I feel that they own quite a bit of the fault.
What I am trying to show with this thread is that the pushing takes place within the church and with this awareness there is opportunity to do something about it.

Pushing goes on by some (and those who push are accountable for that), but it's up to the one being pushed to resist said pushing or not. Now, it may be that some may lack needed skills and/or knowledge in resisting.

 

[RitaTG]

Pushing goes on by some (and those who push are accountable for that), but it's up to the one being pushed to resist said pushing or not. Now, it may be that some may lack needed skills and/or knowledge in resisting.

Jae ....... they lack the strength...... please consider that.........
This I tell you from personal experience .... the strength to resist is hard won and not all are able to do it.
Even I have had my times when I found myself virtually powerless and without the strength needed to resist the mental and spiritual abuse.
I have done a lot of work with women's shelters .... and the horror stories I could share.
There is a lot of commonality there in how the victim processes all this and responds.
Victims ..... that is the proper label for the LGBTQ youth ...... victims.....
And here they are so young and somehow expected to handle something that even seasoned adults have an incredibly difficult time with.
Let us not hold them accountable for more than they are able.
The adults .... the adults in the churches ..... time for them to step up and protect the young ones.

 

[Jaebius]

Jae ....... they lack the strength...... please consider that.........
This I tell you from personal experience .... the strength to resist is hard won and not all are able to do it.
Even I have had my times when I found myself virtually powerless and without the strength needed to resist the mental and spiritual abuse.
I have done a lot of work with women's shelters .... and the horror stories I could share.
There is a lot of commonality there in how the victim processes all this and responds.
Victims ..... that is the proper label for the LGBTQ youth ...... victims.....
And here they are so young and somehow expected to handle something that even seasoned adults have an incredibly difficult time with.
Let us not hold them accountable for more than they are able.
The adults .... the adults in the churches ..... time for them to step up and protect the young ones.

Yes... strength may also be something that some are lacking in.

 

[RitaTG]

Yes... strength may also be something that some are lacking in.

Not just may Jae .... not just may.........

 

[unsafe]

RitaTG -----Your Quote ----- unsafe ...... PLEASE look into the organization history of Exodus International.
All of them "born again" .... very evangelical and fundamentalist in belief..........
This was a very motivated group ... both the staff and those seeking help....
This is the cream of the crop as far as committed earnest christians go.
PLEASE ... I do hope the young ones are worth the effort .... look into that organization's history .... please
Then perhaps you can discuss the questions I posed with me in a more considered way.
Oh ... by the way .... I never ever implied that God does not love LGBTQ persons nor did I ever say God rejects them.
Again ... what I am saying is that is the very message of condemnation that the young ones get from the church...

First of all I don't believe in any Christian being ----the cream of the crop as far as committed earnest christians go. God for me is the cream of the crop not people ---Power comes from God not humans trying to produce their own power to cure what they believe should be cured ----in my believe the only cure is accepting Christ ------once saved we all have the same Grace power ---

The only way to get what God wants for us is to follow His word ---this is my opinion and this is what I do and believe and it works well for me -----Where in His word Does it say that if you pray to cure the LGBTQ person I will do it ------There is much to know on how to get answered prayer which is all lined out for us in the Word ------it is not as simples as just praying and getting what you want ---there are stipulations -----motive is one ---forgiveness is another -----not holding grudges is another -----and more -etc ----and if the LGBTQ community thinks it is a blessing from God then why would they want the Blessing removed ------

And again RitaTG we are far apart on this ----- For me it is what blackbelt pointed out -----it is a symptom from the fall ----it is not for me a blessing as you believe it is for you -----it for me comes from my Generational family who did not deal with their sins and passed down their Iniquity -----We think way different on this issue ----- You would not like me talking to the young ones cause I would tell them what I believe and it does not fit into your likings ---and on a few occasions have shared this with Gay Christian friends who have embraced this explanation ---so sorry but for me this makes perfect sense for me -----I am fine in who I share my life with and who I am and have taken the step to break the iniquity trend ------

In my view RitaTG ---humans and that includes Christians will always be against something or some group ---and so it goes on ---the solution to that is what ---learning how to deal with ridicule ???? I don't know -----so I can't discuss this issue as I have no solution ---

There may be condemnation in the church but I can say this there is no condemnation in Christ -----

 

[blackbelt1961]

First of all I don't believe in any Christian being ----the cream of the crop as far as committed earnest christians go. God for me is the cream of the crop not people ---Power comes from God not humans trying to produce their own power to cure what they believe should be cured ----in my believe the only cure is accepting Christ ------once saved we all have the same Grace power ---

Amen!

There may be condemnation in the church but I can say this there is no condemnation in Christ -----

and a big Amen Sister

 

[Jaebius]

First of all I don't believe in any Christian being ----the cream of the crop as far as committed earnest christians go. God for me is the cream of the crop not people ---

God is King, and he is the only perfect being. That being said, there are Christians who do a better job of following the King then do others. Those Christians may be described as being the cream of the crop of committed earnest Christians. They are the best at being committed and earnest. I make no claim to be among them.

 

[Luce NDs]

Do snakes have knee-IDs ... and thus the underlying condition of the icon of wisdom !

Do you understand the tall dark stranger? Tael eunuch to be out of 'Eire ... according to the roué's of English grammar in a spin 've King Jaimes control system ... an imposed BS!

 

[BetteTheRed]

Rita, I think we should give up on this particular conversation.

The answers have just reinforced the opening point: Yes, the Christian church has killed its gay kids, yes, it largely continues to do so. It is, by far, the main culprit in social/cultural homophobia.

Blackbelt, unsafe and airclean are making me feel quite ill about whole topic. I thank God that my children were kept well away from their ilk.

 

[Luce NDs]

All becomes stoic an saur due to stoic powers that cannot deal with levity ...

 

[RitaTG]

@unsafe ..... you said "Where in His word Does it say that if you pray to cure the LGBTQ person I will do it"
My point is is that the Exodus International experience with that shows at least a 99.5% failure rate.
Whether you agree with my terminology or not this was an organization of very committed and devout evangelical believers who did their very best to pray away the gay.
Again ..... IT DID NOT WORK ......
....... WHY .........
Either there is something wrong with how they did it (not likely) ... or there is something wrong with God (again very unlikely) .... or there is something wrong with how we have interpreted the scriptures (very likely)
You and airclean have carefully ducked the question and in a way I can understand why ..... this would shake your comfortable belief system terribly and cause you to actually search.
You also said "You would not like me talking to the young ones cause I would tell them what I believe and it does not fit into your likings"
AMEN ... agreed ...... I would very much appreciate it if you would leave the young ones alone and stay silent on this issue.
They have enough to deal with and do not need your viewpoint that being LGBTQ is a curse (which it ceratainly is not).
They have enough such condemnation to deal with.
Keep silent with them and I would be very grateful .... thank you

 

[RitaTG]

Rita, I think we should give up on this particular conversation.

The answers have just reinforced the opening point: Yes, the Christian church has killed its gay kids, yes, it largely continues to do so. It is, by far, the main culprit in social/cultural homophobia.

Blackbelt, unsafe and airclean are making me feel quite ill about whole topic. I thank God that my children were kept well away from their ilk.

I wish we could keep them away Bette ... but we cannot....
So the only remaining course of action is to begin the painful work of changing the church.
I have to try ...... the young ones need us to stand up and say something and I will not let them down.

 

[airclean33]

Hi Rita TG--Your post to me--
please keep your mouth shut. That would be a kindness


Airclean --I would be glad to do so . If you and all The L.G.B.T.Q. will shut there's and give the kid's a chance . There are many thing's in GODS Word beside"s can't. LOVE is one His love for us now just as we are , His wanting us to come to Him for our own sake"s . Do you really believe those of us who give GODS words and follow it, never broke them? Every One of us did. The whole church have Save One" We had been sinner"s and were in sin at One time. GODS Love carried us out. Please note not one word there has the word Gay in it.

 

[RitaTG]

Hi Rita TG--Your post to me--
please keep your mouth shut. That would be a kindness


Airclean --I would be glad to do so . If you and all The L.G.B.T.Q. will shut there's and give the kid's a chance . There are many thing's in GODS Word beside"s can't. LOVE is one His love for us now just as we are , His wanting us to come to Him for our own sake"s . Do you really believe those of us who give GODS words and follow it, never broke them? Every One of us did. The whole church had Save One" We had been sinner"s and were in sin at One time. GODS Love carried us out. Please note not one word there has the word Gay in it.

And of course then you will follow that up with trying to tell them being gay is a choice, a lifestyle, and a sin ..... and something God can cure them of.....
All of which are false.......
The best course of action would be to remain silent ..... there of plenty of other christians around that can share the good news with them ..... without that poison.
Thank you

 

[Jaebius]

What I'm hearing...

@airclean33 - 'Shut up, and let the gay kids come to Jesus.'

@RitaTG - 'Shut up, and let the gay kids love who Jesus has made them to be.'

Is there any middle ground between these positions?

Should there be?

If there is, what is it?

 

[Luce NDs]

If you research "virtue" and "virtue ethics" you learn some neat things about mean and the other extreme that some call self-deprecation.

One of the generators of the article on WIKI said that one of the problems was lack of a medium ... one of those in between spaces types of haunts .. supposedly a demon to morally induced values ...

Then if one doesn't work their wee piece of mind due to over indulgence in emotions ... do yah loose ID (the primal thing)?

Occurs to me that may be where one draws from for Lucid thoughts ... clear dreams by the underground railway bunch that is subtle ...

 

[Luce NDs]

If you're not allowed truth by the church paternity ... conceive of a myth for cover-up! The simply inclined won't notice ...

ETHICs is a tough climb ... to pool oneself out of mislead moral pools ... like a tree in the middle of a swampland ...

 

[airclean33]

And of course then you will follow that up with trying to tell them being gay is a choice, a lifestyle, and a sin ..... and something God can cure them of.....
All of which are false.......
The best course of action would be to remain silent ..... there of plenty of other christians around that can share the good news with them ..... without that poison.
Thank you

RitaTG-- You have stated you are a follower of Christ Jesus.Then you should know We wake each day in flesh . We must try and walk in GODS will. For our GOD dose not sin . Nor do I believe will He except it. He is there to help us when we fail and yes I fail almost every day. He pick"s me up , and (we)start over again.You want those children who are gay to walk alone ? As you did? There is no need " He is waiting to help. We" have but to ask. I feel that hate or anger to another, is Ungodly so I try not to act on that thought. Yes I believe GODS Word The Bible say"s acting on a gay" thought is wrong. All must chose though. I hope at that time your not alone ,( but that He is with you.) And may He always be. airclean33

 

[Jaebius]

RitaTG-- You have stated you are a follower of Christ Jesus.Then you should know We wake each day in flesh . We must try and walk in GODS will. For our GOD dose not sin . Nor do I believe will He except it. He is there to help us when we fail and yes I fail almost every day. He pick"s me up , and (we)start over again.You want those children who are gay to walk alone ? As you did? There is no need " He is waiting to help. We" have but to ask. I feel that hate or anger to another, is Ungodly so I try not to act on that thought. Yes I believe GODS Word The Bible say"s acting on a gay" thought is wrong.All must chose though. I hope at that time your not alone ,( but that He is with you.) And may He always be. airclean33

airclean, here you seem to be suggesting (among other things) that @RitaTG is gay. I'm not sure that's the case (nor is it either of our business unless she chooses to disclose).

 

[unsafe]

RitaTG ------Here is a question for you ?------when we are born ----are we not born with a sin nature ?------are all LGBTQ people different than all others born -----you say being an LGBTQ person is a blessing -----well you can only be Blessed if your Born Again and are a child of God as per scripture ---- to do this --you have to accept Christ as per scripture -----so is what your saying is that all LGBTQ people are born from the womb saved and Blessed while all the rest of us are born in sin and with a sin nature which was passed down from the fall of man under the curse ------- so what do you do with this Psalms 51-------verse2 and 5 2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,And cleanse me from my sin. 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,And in sin my mother conceived me.


Psalm 51New King James Version (NKJV)

A Prayer of Repentance----- https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm 51&version=NKJV