Old Question Revisited - Who is Jesus?

[crazyheart]

I see that posters change their minds often about God and Jesus.

Who is Jesus?

Son of God?

Son of Joseph?

3rd person in the Trinity?

Was Jesus real?

Do you make up your mind one day and change it the next about God and Jesus?

Do we tell our kids the truth as we perceive it?

Add answers or questions.

 

[crazyheart]

where is everyone. Bump!!!

 

[Seeler]

Who is Jesus? Different things to different people at different times in their lives.

Jesus was a Jew, born in the village of Nazareth approximately 2000 years ago.
His mother's name was Mary. Her husband was Joseph, but there seems to be some question about whether Joseph was his biological father.
He was baptized by John the Baptist.
He became a wandering rabbi or teacher who also seems to have had a talent for healing.
He taught that we should love God and love one another.
He taught that the kingdom of God is at hand, or within us.
He had a group of followers - 12 disciples and a group of women who seemed to follow him in his travels, as well as crowds that gathered wherever he was.
People saw the spirit of God within him.
He was executed by crucifixion.
His followers reported experiencing his presence still among them, and spread his teachings

He is a part of the God-head - the Trinity. Father, Son, Spirit.

We experience God through Jesus.

Teacher, guide, friend.

 

[revjohn]

I see that posters change their minds often about God and Jesus.

Well, maybe some do.

Who is Jesus?

Jesus is God in human flesh, fully human and fully divine, both lamb and shepherd. The list is pretty long I don't have time to reproduce it from memory.

Son of God?

Technically, no. God the Son or Son of the Father. Less technically, sure it works.

Son of Joseph?

Aren't you the one with the signature "If you think you are family then you are family" So yes, after a fashion he is the son of Joseph. It isn't a contradiction.

3rd person in the Trinity?

Technically, no. Jesus is always listed as the second person of the Trinity. Not that top billing is all important.

Was Jesus real?

Theologically I believe Jesus is real. Was real indicates a past when things were different. I belong to the same yesterday/today and tomorrow camp when it comes to God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Do you make up your mind one day and change it the next about God and Jesus?

Nope.

That said I am always open to other ideas or expressions and do not dismiss them out of hand. If I do not find the alternative presented to be compelling I tend not to embrace it.

Do we tell our kids the truth as we perceive it?

Yes I do. Belief doesn't mean much if you are ashamed of it and avoid it.

Add answers or questions.

If a train leaves Vancouver heading east at an average speed of 80kph and a train leaves Halifax heading west at an average speed of 79kph how long does one have to wait at Union Station for a train that will eventually carry them to a meeting point and where will that meeting point be?

 

[Delightful Life]

Jesus was, is, and will be everything that everyone here on this threads writes is

Jesus also isn't "" "" "" etc

Jesus also is meaningless

Jesus also is indeterminate

Jesus also is a game rule of Christianity

 

[Seeler]

Jesus was, is, and will be everything that everyone here on this threads writes is

Jesus also isn't "" "" "" etc

Jesus also is meaningless

Jesus also is indeterminate

Jesus also is a game rule of Christianity

How can you say that Jesus is meaningless when for 2000 years he has been of utmost importance to a great number of people. You may think that Jesus is meaningless to you, but the fact that belief in him has shaped history for much of the world gives meaning to the concept of Jesus. Whether for good or bad, Christianity (based on Jesus) has influenced culture, exploration, movements and resettlement of large numbers of people, wars, education, institutions - our very identity and even the names we give our children. I find it difficult to understand how you can say 'Jesus is ... meaningless'.

 

[Delightful Life]

*chuckle* relax, Seeler, your slip is showing :3

There is a non-zero set of human beings who have never heard of Jesus -- to them, Jesus is meaningless

There is a non-zero set of human beings who cannot comprehend language -- to them, Jesus is meaningless

There is a non-zero set of human beings who think that Jesus is meaningless

There is a non-zero chance that you are mistaken that Jesus even existed and is therefore, meaningless

There is a non-zero chance that none of us are making any sense at all. Jesus being a subset of us making any sense at all, therefore, meaningless.

And so forth?

I am not saying that Jesus 'is' meaningless.

Jesus 'is' a lot of things at the same time and 'isn't' a lot of things at the same time.

It shouldn't matter at all whether Jesus existed or not because what's important, imho, is that you believe in Him, get purpose from Him and Meaning from Him.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Deleted. Pasted wrong link then it duplicated when trying to edit. First time on WC2 that that's happened

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Who is Jesus...I don't want to give textbook answer. It's more intuitively understood by me. The historical Jesus was a great man. Jesus Christ in a spiritual sense is life and love. CH you asked about what people tell their kids...all of a sudden, this movie came to mind and it has nothing overtly stated to do with Jesus and that was likely not even the film-makers' intent. However...it just came to me. This is one view- from the heart (as I see it although more intuitive than rational answer I guess - although the character is 'lying' to his son about what's happening, he's acting out of very strong love - he's risking his life for him- that is the truth we're to recognize. The brutality used to control and harm and kill was one big 'lie' that he did not want his son to disparage or grow bitter over, or to be overcome with fear.

A clip from the film "Life is Beautiful"
http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZlxmLQuA7eQ?autoplay=1

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

...it was not a lie that it was happening of course. But treating people like that is a 'lie' in the sense that it is not how we're meant to live together with humanity. And he did not want his son to know bitterness and fear or even hatred for the enemy. And that love got him through it alive - even with times of joy in the darkest of days.

 

[Jaebius]

Rather than articulating an answer - I will recommend some good reading on the subject -- the book of Mark.

 

[Hermann]

Although most historians agree that Jesus existed, very little is known about the historical Jesus. What we know about Jesus is legendary and mythological rather than historical. The Jesus legend, and the religion that has been constructed around it, is, of course, meaningful to many people. But it should not be confused with historical truth.

 

[Seeler]

*chuckle* relax, Seeler, your slip is showing :3

There is a non-zero set of human beings who have never heard of Jesus -- to them, Jesus is meaningless

There is a non-zero set of human beings who cannot comprehend language -- to them, Jesus is meaningless

There is a non-zero set of human beings who think that Jesus is meaningless

There is a non-zero chance that you are mistaken that Jesus even existed and is therefore, meaningless

There is a non-zero chance that none of us are making any sense at all. Jesus being a subset of us making any sense at all, therefore, meaningless.

And so forth?

I am not saying that Jesus 'is' meaningless.

Jesus 'is' a lot of things at the same time and 'isn't' a lot of things at the same time.

It shouldn't matter at all whether Jesus existed or not because what's important, imho, is that you believe in Him, get purpose from Him and Meaning from Him.

Oh, I'm aware that there are people who have never heard of Jesus - but I'm not sure there are many who haven't been effected by Jesus in some way.
Yes, there are people who do not comprehend language - but their lives also may have been effected by Jesus (or the attitudes and/or actions of people who believe in Jesus).
Thinking something is meaningless, doesn't make it meaningless.
There is a possibility that Jesus never existed, but does that make him meaningless? Santa Claus never existed either, but Santa Claus is not meaningless to much of North America, Europe, and some other parts of the world - he is part of story, legend, childhood fantasy. And he has a big effect on commerce and the economy. He has shaped our buying habits - made December the most important month in the retail world. Existence, or non-existence, doesn't make something meaningless.

And yes, there is a chance that we are just playing around with this.

 

[Waterfall]

Although most historians agree that Jesus existed, very little is known about the historical Jesus. What we know about Jesus is legendary and mythological rather than historical. The Jesus legend, and the religion that has been constructed around it, is, of course, meaningful to many people. But it should not be confused with historical truth.

And I believe Jesus, should not be confused with legend or mythology. Of course we're all entitled to our opinions.

To me one of the greatest historical evidences that Jesus existed, is the Bible itself and the many other books that weren't included.

 

[crazyheart]

Isn't it interesting that this question has been asked and answered for 2000 years but never
do we come to consensus?

 

[Neo]

The following is from one of Benjamin Creme's books. Creme, who is a disciple of the esoteric wisdom and a conduit for one of the Masters of Wisdom, has been described as a modern day 'John the Baptist' for the reappearance of Christ in our modern times.

Jesus — A Master of Wisdom and disciple of the Christ, Maitreya. Allowed the Christ to work through Him during the period from His baptism to the crucifixion. In the coming time, He will play a major role in reinspiring and reorienting the whole field of Christian religion. As the Master Jesus, He works closely with Maitreya.

Christ — A term used to designate the head of the Spiritual Hierarchy; the World Teacher; the Master of all the Masters. The office presently held by the Lord Maitreya.

Maitreya — The World Teacher for the age of Aquarius. The Christ and head of the Spiritual Hierarchy of our planet. The Master of all the Masters.

Masters of Wisdom — Individuals Who have taken the fifth initiation, having passed through all the experiences that life in this world offers and, in the process, having acquired total mastery over themselves and the laws of nature. Custodians of the Plan of evolution and all the energies entering this planet which bring about the fulfilment of the Plan.


- Excerpts From: Creme, Benjamin. “The World Teacher for All Humanity.” Benjamin Creme. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

See an online copy of this book at http://www.share-international.org/books/PDFs/BCreme_TheWorldTeacherForAllHumanity_Jun07.pdf

I know the above is not an orthodox view of who Jesus and the Christ are, but it is a view that all Christians should be aware of.

 

[Mendalla]

I don't really have a solid view on Jesus right now. He is very important to my religious/spiritual outlook but, at the same time, I am not always entirely sure who he is or what his overall arc really means for me.

His teachings on things like forgiveness, judgement, and compassion resonate strongly. The parables are strong stories with often valuable messages. The mythical aspects, like the Virgin Birth and the Resurrection fascinate me though their meaning for me isn't fixed at this point.

Like Hermann, I think there is an historical core to the story on which additional layers have been added, moving Jesus out of conventional history and into the realm of myth and metaphor. The truths in his story are not all literal ones, but they are powerful ones.

I do not believe that he was the literal Son of God, but that the title carries meaning in that it conveys the notion of a deep, even familial, understanding of his relationship to God.

I do not believe that he was our Saviour in the sense of a sacrifice to atone for the world's sins, but I do believe the Easter story does, in some way, speak to overcoming the negative forces of this world.

In short, he's a presence in my spiritual world but I'm not entirely sure where he fits in at present.

 

[crazyheart]

[QUOTE="Mendalla, post: 7063, member: 5

I do not believe that he was the literal Son of God, but that the title carries meaning in that it conveys the notion of a deep, even familial, understanding of his relationship to God.[QUOTE

So then it could be said of all of us. Son or Daughter of God.?

 

[Delightful Life]

Oh, I'm aware that there are people who have never heard of Jesus - but I'm not sure there are many who haven't been effected by Jesus in some way.
Yes, there are people who do not comprehend language - but their lives also may have been effected by Jesus (or the attitudes and/or actions of people who believe in Jesus).
Thinking something is meaningless, doesn't make it meaningless.
There is a possibility that Jesus never existed, but does that make him meaningless? Santa Claus never existed either, but Santa Claus is not meaningless to much of North America, Europe, and some other parts of the world - he is part of story, legend, childhood fantasy. And he has a big effect on commerce and the economy. He has shaped our buying habits - made December the most important month in the retail world. Existence, or non-existence, doesn't make something meaningless.

When you write aboot Jesus' influences as above, you are making a choice as to what influences are...I don't know exactly how to phrase this, but are his copyright? Not in the legal sense, but in the identity sense.

And you are also making a choice to follow in your particular culture's BS (belief system) that effects can be attributed to singular causes (which includes human beings). So we have such things as heroines -- people who somehow act by themselves and who, ex nihilo, create new causes...

One of humanity's issues, I think, and I think this is in the Hebrew Bibble is that we tend to deify things. We can place them in a special spot, elevating them above reproach. Making them sacred while forgetting their other aspects.

I'm glad you can think of your Jesus in more than one way. I'm glad you are also willing to let your fellow human being also have more than one conception of Jesus.

And yes, personally, I think that saying Jesus/g_d 'existed' or didn't exist misses the whole point...it takes the deep myth, metaphor, analogies and sucks all the life and meaning out of them...myths are our food...we need them in order to believe the important things, like mercy, justice, beauty...

And aboot you or I saying anything aboot a particular group, whether that be 'humans' or 'Canadians' or 'Seeler's Spawn', without actual scientific-level investigations (which are the collective & hard-won knowledge of humanity), all we can say fairly aboot any group is aboot some-but-not-all. So sombunall Canadians are pacifist cheeze eaters. Sombunall Americans are gun nuts. Sombunall women are easily squicked. And so forth.

There is a big problem with the word 'is' -- it takes all of wonderful, complex, marvelously variable & changeable reality and cuts it, mauls it, fossilizes it...when reality is really 'it seems to be at this time under these conditions'...

Thank you for illustrating and engaging with the collective of WC :3

 

[Delightful Life]

Isn't it interesting that this question has been asked and answered for 2000 years but never
do we come to consensus?

Consensus is for grey-faced dull and boring politicans who know no love, no humour and just want more money and power...:3

Then again, there's science, which tries to get at 'what is'...but *shrug*