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I didn't say it would ------this is what I said Jaebius

unsafe said
When sincere true Christians pray and ask the Holy Spirit to guide them into the Truth of what the Scripture is saying -----this helps eliminate differences and misunderstandings ----- and can bring a consensus among a group -----


The Holy Spirit can give the Same Spiritual Revelation to more than one person in a group ------


Google Agrees

Two people reading scripture and agreeing on its spiritual message is often described in Christian tradition as a shared revelation grounded in communal discernment


Shared Understanding: When two believers read the same text and arrive at the same spiritual takeaway, it is often attributed to the guidance of the Holy Spirit bringing unity in interpretation and purpose.
The Spirit calls us to humility.

Our hearts, unsafe, are influenced by traditions. Assumptions! LIMITATIONS IN GRASPING!

That's why we need both dependence on the Spirit and careful study of Scripture.

What encourages me is that even when Christians disagree on some issues, the Spirit creates a deeper unity around Christ. The gospel! GOD'S GLORY!

The greatest evidence of the Spirit's work, unsafe, is that believers pursue truth together with love. Humility! A SHARED DESIRE TO HONOUR GOD ❤️✝️
 
And sometimes they are simply contradictions because different versions of the stories have existed. SOmetimes in different Biblical books and sometimes they are carried into the same books in the editing process.
Don't think THERE ARE DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF A STORY, Gord, necessarily leads to THE BIBLE CONTAINS GENUINE CONTRADICTIONS!

Complexity's exactly what we'd expect from a collection of inspired texts unified by God's providence.

For me, the deeper question's whether the apparent contradiction's truly logical and irreconcilable, or whether we're encountering the limits of our grasping of the text. Historical context! AUTHORICAL INTENT
 
How could there not be Inconsistency and contradictions in a collection of books written by human beings.
God's redemption of sinners through Christ, WhyCzar, is the unity that makes me stop and think.

Human involvement doesn't automatically create contradiction.

Otherwise, every courtroom testimony, history book and SCIENTIFIC PAPER would be dismissed before being read.

Human authors' existence simply means the books must be examined on their actual merits.

For me, the Bible's coherence's evidence of what God can do through humans
 
Well i see it this way ----as per Scripture ---

1John 4
New International Version
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.


Galatlains 1
New International Version
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

So if the person who says they are a True Follower of the Way ----preaches that God's Grace is Irresistable and that is not in Scripture then caution is warranted -----in my view

If a person who says they are a True Follower of The Way ----preaches that God picks and chooses who to save and sends others to hell and that is not in scripture ---then caution is warranted -----in my view ----

Who is this person adhearing to ----God's word or a Man Made Religion
It's not accurate, unsafe, to say Calvinist ideas aren't in Scripture at all.

The real question's what the text's saying.

I believe salvation's entirely by grace from beginning to end, leaving no room for boasting.

I think we must open the Bible together and ask, "Why did faithful Christians who loved Jesus and trusted Scripture arrive at these conclusions from texts like John 6, Rom 9 and Eph 1?"
 
The real question's what the text's saying.
I agree with that statement -----so what does the Text say about Grace -----there Jaebius

So show me the Scripture that Says God's Grace is Irresistable -------and that people have no free will to Resist His Grace -----as per John Calvin\s Theology

So show me the Scripture where God says ---I will save some people and will send others to their doom ------as per John Calvin's Theology -------

Therse are 2 areas where in my opinion John Calvin has lost his rightly division of God's word -----

So you can believe what John Calvin spits out about these 2 things ---what you personally want to believe is your choice -----but ---if your telling other people this ---then you are wrongly dividing God's Word -----cause the Scripture does not Say that people can't resist God's Grace when it comes to being Saved ------

If God wants all people saved ---which is very Scriptural ------and His Grace is irresistable then all people would already be saved -----

Think about that -----
 
I think we must open the Bible together and ask, "Why did faithful Christians who loved Jesus and trusted Scripture arrive at these conclusions from texts like John 6, Rom 9 and Eph 1?"

John 6 NIV - Jesus Feeds the Five Thousand -​


Romans 9 NIV - Paul's Anguish Over Israel -​


Ephesians 1 NIV - Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the​



So what is your point about these Scriptures ----what conclusions did people come to from these chapters you quote -----not understanding the point you are trying to make here ----

Can you clarify ????????
 
If believers can't interpret Scripture at all, unsafe,
where did you get that from ---All believers have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and can get the Spiritual interpretation from Scripture -----by and through praying and asking the Holy Spirit to enlighten them on the spiritual meaning -----

It is unbelievers who cannot get the Spiritual meaning of the Scripture ----they can only read the Logos word and use their worldly intellectual mind through there own Reasoning to interpret scripture -----

The Holy Spirit is the only one who can give The Spiritua;l meaning of what the scripture is saying ----

This comes from my post # 145 to GordW ------you need to go and read it ---

-I am posting this from it -to you ----this is from the study Bible from Bible Hub



Fallen people may grasp the facts of Scripture,
debate its teachings,
and possess great learning,
yet remain blind to its saving truth.


I say ----Now you don't have to believe this that is your Free Graced Choice ----
 
Well i disagree with this because ---there can be only one True Fitting Together as Far as Doctrine goes and we Humans are incapable of fitting rightly together without the Holy Spirits Guidance --the truth of Scripture comes only through the person prating and asking for the Holy Spirits Guidence and Direction ------

There cannot be 2 Trtuhs -----There is only ONE Truth -----the other so called Truth is a Lie ----
That is my view on that -----
When I, Jae, am wrong, I want God to correct me. When you, unsafe, are wrong, I want God to correct you. And if we're both wrong in some area, I trust that God's grace's bigger than our imperfect grasping.

Unity's found in Christ, and the same Spirit who leads us into truth also teaches us patience. Gentleness! LOVE TOWARD FELLOW BELIEVERS!

Our confidence, unsafe, must ultimately be in God's ability to lead His people into Truth
 
So Jaebios

here is a piece of Scripture which is a little hard to Spiritual Discern ----

What is your Spiritual assessment on interpreting this piece of Scripture ------

Read it and interpret it -----

Matthew 19:24 ----

New Living Translation
I’ll say it again—it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!”
 
So sometimes pious discussions of religion are unchangeable to the set-point that one may become right beside one's elf and looking down on it from being out of it! Thus the divisibility of the fugue is warped and screwed as a twisted genny ... distant hummer ... at least until the schism comes forth what was offered ...

The psyche functions in unknown ways and one has to be out of it to observe what went ... I admit it is beyond me but many acquaintances claim they have it in hand ... LAN Dag Ocean ... another deep mystery!

If we only understood the word shifts in the dance that hides the know not's ... innocents/innocence? Stupid ...

When will they learn? It is a paradox ... as they really don't want the responsibility ... watch them blame it on the other ... alternately it comes back at'M ... Adamed return to 3 rd Ba Say? Count Bassey in ... preserve chaos for reasons that remain beyond them ... like a Yah Zu parable ... some times hazel ... emerald! Stiff upright's ... fresh blades ... those Germain doubles ... doppelgangers? There's always 1 late ... anon? Its coming someone said ...
 
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But if your lable doesn't fit with God's word ---then your Focus is really not on Christ --

If your lable is a True lable ---that Lable will be Christ Centered ------in my view ----
Honestly, unsafe, every believer has labels. Baptist. Pentecostal. Reformed! ARMINIAN!

The real question's whether those labels help us see Christ more clearly or distract us from Him.

If a label helps articulate biblical truth and leads us to worship Jesus more deeply, then I don't think it's competing with Him at all.

Christ stays the centre. Our theo labels just serve Him
 
Honestly, unsafe, every believer has labels. Baptist. Pentecostal. Reformed! ARMINIAN!
and these are Man Made Lables ------most of which serve up man made Doctrine --or they take God's word and twist it to serve their own intellectual interpretation of Scripture many wolves out there pretending to be Sheep

That is my view ------
 
Honestly, unsafe, every believer has labels. Baptist. Pentecostal. Reformed! ARMINIAN!

The real question's whether those labels help us see Christ more clearly or distract us from Him.

If a label helps articulate biblical truth and leads us to worship Jesus more deeply, then I don't think it's competing with Him at all.

Christ stays the centre. Our theo labels just serve Him

The there is the Lade Elle ... the heated spot ... in the soup ... spooning's? Something to be played with the squeeze boite ... and a little bit of medicine ... not excessive!
 
Don't think THERE ARE DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF A STORY, Gord, necessarily leads to THE BIBLE CONTAINS GENUINE CONTRADICTIONS!

Complexity's exactly what we'd expect from a collection of inspired texts unified by God's providence.

For me, the deeper question's whether the apparent contradiction's truly logical and irreconcilable, or whether we're encountering the limits of our grasping of the text. Historical context! AUTHORICAL INTENT
DId you learn anything about source criticism, redaction, historical criticism when it comes to how Scripture, particularly parts of the Jewish Scripture, really specifically the Torah came to be in their final form? THat was first year seminary for me. To limit ourselves to Torah there are clearly multiple sources and clearly they tell some of the same stories differently. How many animals are included on the ark in the flood myth stands out -- one pair of everything or seven pairs of sacrificial animals?

ANd we know that different witnesses to the same event can give contradictory accounts. Memory is a strange thing, not as clear as we want it to be.

When we need it to not be contradiction often speaks to our own need for certainty -- a need that Scripture may not always meet.
 
so what is Source Criticism ---lets sees ---Read all for yourselves ----just posting some of the Article -----


Definition and Purpose

Source criticism is a field of biblical studies that seeks to identify and analyze the written sources behind the final form of the biblical text.

Source Criticism and Theological Implications

Some worry that source criticism weakens confidence in Scripture’s authority
.

However, from a position that views God as sovereign and the Scriptures as inerrant, any sources utilized by the biblical writers are part of God’s plan to reveal Himself.

The prophet Daniel consulted existing records (Daniel 9:2), and Luke mentions researching “accounts handed down” by eyewitnesses (Luke 1:1-4).

These references illustrate that biblical authors themselves often acknowledged the use of external materials, yet the end result is still fully inspired truth.
Conclusion


Source criticism examines possible written or oral materials that contributed to the biblical text.
While some use it to challenge Scripture’s integrity, many have found that studying these lived realities-where authors had access to prior accounts-only adds depth to our understanding of how God guided human writers to create a coherent, authoritative message.

The Bible, standing as the inspired Word of the living God, has endured from ancient times to the present. “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away” (Matthew 24:35).

Regardless of which sources may have been consulted along the way,
Scripture ultimately shines forth as the unchangeable revelation of the one true and eternal God.
 
What is Redaction Criticism----let us see -----Read all just posting some of the srticle


Definition

Redaction Criticism is a method that studies how authors or editors (“redactors”) employed existing source material to shape a final narrative or theological message. Researchers in this field look for indications that a Gospel writer or prophet may have reworked or rearranged earlier texts to emphasize certain themes.

For instance, scholars might analyze how Matthew purportedly used sources like Mark and a collection of sayings (hypothetically called “Q”) to craft a Gospel account highlighting Jesus as the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. Redaction critics seek to uncover the unique perspective each biblical writer or editor might have brought to the text.

Origins and Aims

Redaction Criticism emerged in the early to mid-twentieth century, building on ideas from Source Criticism (the quest to identify various written or oral sources behind the biblical text).

It introduced the realization that biblical writers might not have merely copied earlier sources verbatim but also shaped them for specific audiences or purposes-especially to highlight central theological messages.

Observations from Scriptural Consistency

While Redaction Criticism focuses on how authors edited or compiled material, many note that the thoroughly consistent message of Scripture emerges through these variations in style and emphasis. As it is written:

“Every Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16).


This consistency is not interpreted by many as evidence of a uniform editing process but as testament to a divinely orchestrated harmony among different human authors spanning diverse historical settings.

Archaeological discoveries-such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, containing some of the oldest known copies of portions of the Old Testament-have demonstrated that the text’s essential content and doctrines remained intact through centuries.

Relevance for Personal Study

For those exploring the Bible, understanding Redaction Criticism and Higher Criticism can be a double-edged sword:

• They can illuminate biblical texts by demonstrating the richness of the authors’ perspectives and historical contexts.

• They can lead to skepticism if used in a manner that dismisses Scripture’s validity based on speculative re-dating or unproven documentary hypotheses.
Yet many find that the deeper they investigate the text’s history-whether through textual criticism, manuscript evidence, or archaeological data-the more it confirms the reliability of the biblical account.


Conclusion


Critics sometimes question the supernatural elements and treat the Bible as any other ancient literature, yet a plethora of manuscript, historical, and archaeological data supports the trustworthiness of Scripture.

By weighing these academic tools alongside the affirmation that Scripture is “God-breathed” (2 Timothy 3:16), one can engage these methods without abandoning confidence in the Creator, the integrity of the biblical text, or the profound message of salvation through the risen Christ.

The ongoing conversation about Redaction Criticism and Higher Criticism underscores the richness and depth of the Bible, inviting readers to carefully consider both scholarly perspectives and the wealth of historical and textual evidence that supports the unity and reliability of Scripture.
 
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