The Joys of John

[paradox3]

John 9:1-12

Bible Gateway passage: John 9:1-12 - New English Translation

Healing a Man Born Blind - Now as Jesus was passing by, he saw a man who had been blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who committed the sin that caused him to be born blind, this man or his parents?” Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but he was born blind...

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Jesus and his disciples see a man who has been blind since birth. The disciples ask if it was the man himself or his parents who sinned. Jesus responds that the man was born blind so that acts of God could be performed through him.

Jesus heals the man and goes on his way.

The healing happens when Jesus spits on the ground and forms mud with his saliva. The mud is smeared on the man's eyes and he is told to wash in the pool of Siloam.

 

[paradox3]

What's with the mud, do you think?

I have seen speculation that the antiseptic properties of saliva actually healed the man.

Or is this story a metaphor for spiritual blindness and the need to wash something away?

 

[Mendalla]

Moreso the latter. The former sounds like someone stretching for a naturalistic explanation, the latter sounds more like John.

“Neither this man[e] nor his parents sinned, but he was born blind so that[f] the acts[g] of God may be revealed[h] through what happens to him. 4 We must perform the deeds[j] of the one who sent me[k] as long as[l] it is daytime. Night is coming when no one can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

Um, he was born blind just so Jesus could show off? Suffered his whole life for Jesus'/God's benefit? Either God is a world record a**hole, as some atheists allege, or this is speaking symbolically. Perhaps the man is humanity, blinded by their sin and the healing is Jesus "healing" that spiritual blindness by taking away the sins of the world?

 

[paradox3]

Moreso the latter. The former sounds like someone stretching for a naturalistic explanation, the latter sounds more like John.

Agreeing with this.

Um, he was born blind just so Jesus could show off? Suffered his whole life for Jesus'/God's benefit? Either God is a world record a**hole, as some atheists allege

Yes. I had the same thought although I didn't include it in my response today. From a disability informed perspective, God's behavior really sucks.

I think @Kimmio Laughterlove would probably agree.

, or this is speaking symbolically. Perhaps the man is humanity, blinded by their sin and the healing is Jesus "healing" that spiritual blindness by taking away the sins of the world?

A metanarrative, then? Not sure if this is the correct term.

 

[unsafe]

So in the last part of previous Chapter ----the Pharisees were viciously coming after Jesus to in their wanting to kill Him ----

If people were coming after us personally to kill us ---we would be probably very nervous and in fear all the time --always looking over our shoulder for those who are pursuing us --

Notice how Jesus here is not concerned with the Pharisees ---He walks in Calmness and shows no fear of the Pharisees coming after Him -----and Heals this man from His Blindness --
This is that peace that goes beyond all understanding that believers can cultivate by and through their relationship with Christ -----

The Disciples seem either to know this blind man or heard him say he was blind from birth as they ask Jesus who sinned to make this man blind from birth ----

Apparently in Jesus' time the Jewish people believed that disabilities and sickness came from the sins of the person or their parents as punishment ----

AI

Yes, many Jewish people in Jesus' time believed that sin, either by the individual or their parents, could cause birth defects or disabilities. This belief was prevalent in Rabbinic thought, suggesting that God used such imperfections as punishment for sin.

Elaboration:
Sin as a Cause:
The idea that sin led to physical ailments and disabilities was widespread in Jewish thought during the time of Jesus. This perspective often linked illnesses and deformities to transgressions against God's laws or immoral behavior.

Rabbinic Perspectives:
Rabbinic teachings included the idea that disabilities were divine punishments. This belief also extended to birth defects, suggesting they could be a consequence of "sexual perversion" or other sins.

I say -------this reminds me of Job's friends where they said to him what sin did you do to deserve this punishment ------

Jesus says that to heal this man is to show God's works ----He dismisses the Disciples question of who's sinned -----

Miracles are always done as a sign of God's Power and Glory

Jesus says He must work the works of His Father in the Day as Night is coming when no work will be done ---this of course has a very important Spiritual message ==

This is talking about His Life coming to an end for His time is short to fulfill His Father's purpose and he must do it before the Cross comes -----

Jesus says as long as I am in the World ------He is the Light of the world ----giving guidance through His word and works ---but a time will come when all personal guidance from him will be done ----

This holds true for us today as well ---we are given a short time to accept coming back to God and be adopted back into the sheep fold by and through our Faith in Jesus in this life we live now cause after this live ends Judgment comes ----there is no second chance

Jesus makes a kind of clay bt spitting on mud and places it on the eye of the blind man ----now we can think the the power to heal came from the spittle and mud but the real healing power came from Jesus ---not the method used ---

We see some believed and some made excuses saying this wasn't the man -----

Interesting Note - The Jewish nation had a concept on Spit -----so this method would have been very well known to the Jews -----and that is probably why Jesus used it ---just my thoughts

Read all for yourselves

Jewish Superstition of Spitting Three Times

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

Jewish Concepts: Superstition of Spitting Three Times​

 

[paradox3]

Interesting to learn about spitting three times @unsafe
We were just discussing all the things that come in threes a couple of days ago.

Jesus spitting on the ground reminded me of his writing on the ground in the story of the woman caught in adultery.

 

[unsafe]

Biblical numerology - Number 3

Number 3 is one of the most important numbers through Bible, it is a number of harmony, of God’s presence and of completeness.

numerology.center

Number 3 is one of the most important numbers through Bible, it is a number of harmony, of God’s presence and of completeness.

It is connected to the Holy Trinity, to three patriarchs before the flood – Abel, Enoch and Noah, and three patriarchs after the flood – Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. New Testament has 27 books which is 33 (3*3*3), and it is largely connected with Jesus.

He prayed three times before being arrested, he was put at the cross at the third hour of the day and died at the ninth hour which is 3pm. Number 3 is the number of eternal life, as he was resurrected after three days of being dead. Three people saw the Holy Transfiguration of Jesus, they were” Peter, John and James

God gifted three things to Israel: the law of God, the land of Israel and the world to come. God’s throne is located at the "third heaven".

. Angels cried three woes to warn that the more are coming, three evil spirits deluded the world until the battle of Armageddon.

 

[Mendalla]

Even in magical practice. There actually is a real-life basis for "Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice" being the spell to summon a spirit named Beetlejuice.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Agreeing with this.


Yes. I had the same thought although I didn't include it in my response today. From a disability informed perspective, God's behavior really sucks.

I think @Kimmio Laughterlove would probably agree.


A metanarrative, then? Not sure if this is the correct term.

I used to have a good alternate interpretation but I forgot what it was. Yeah, but using a blind guy that’s been bullied and scapegoated and outcast, to show off, would be shitty behaviour. Maybe the ancients were really used to people having bad behaviour - the whole bible is full of bad behaviour - it was of the time and place, long ago, when more people had less moral scruples and independent critical thought, as a product of their environment. It was a lot more brutal than today. At the same time, Jesus himself was scapegoated because of others’ bad behaviour.

I think he’s pointing to the man having spiritual sight - insight because he was not “of the world”, he was a misfit and rejected by the world, blamed for his blindness, parents blamed, when the ones blaming them were the ones who were “blind” to their ignorance. They had to blame someone other than themselves for the iniquity in the world. The physical act of healing as told, was a metaphor for something more important.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Even in magical practice. There actually is a real-life basis for "Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice" being the spell to summon a spirit named Beetlejuice.

what’s it supposed to do? Never mind, I don’t need to know.

Not to take this on too much of a tangent but I’m holding up three fingers. What does that mean?!!! (I meant nothing by it but to be silly. My point is about reading magic numbers into things isn’t helpful for people understanding the morals of the stories. It becomes a sparkly distraction that might do more harm than good. People get swept up in that and forget what’s really important. Jesus never instructed people to do that. He just instructed people to be good to one another - and to have respect for other living things because it all comes from the same Source (God) - he encouraged better behaviour. That, I can believe in. Taking it too literally or to magical conclusions doesn’t help us focus on what we should focus on.) It seems like the more some religious groups read into it, the weirder the beliefs they come up with. I think it’s basic. Be good because we share this planet, and if people aren’t, that has collective consequences. We’re seeing them, again. Things devolve the less we care.

 

[paradox3]

John 9:13-34

Bible Gateway passage: John 9:13-34 - New English Translation

The Pharisees’ Reaction to the Healing - They brought the man who used to be blind to the Pharisees. (Now the day on which Jesus made the mud and caused him to see was a Sabbath.) So the Pharisees asked him again how he had gained his sight. He replied, “He put mud on my eyes and I washed, and...

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The man who used to be blind is brought before the Pharisees. The man testifies about his healing and says that Jesus is a prophet.

There is division among the Pharisees but they reject the man's testimony and throw him out.

The Pharisees insist they are disciples of Moses.

 

[unsafe]

So in theses verses we again see Division -----which Jesus came to bring---to divide not to bring peace ----

The Pharisees refusing to take this man's Testimony about Jesus being a Prophet and asks the parents who does verify that he was blind from birth --

There are many of us today who are like the Pharisees ----we just refuse to believe ---but thank goodness we have a choice to make -----believe or reject the belief -----that is our choice

The Pharisees who took God's law about the sabbath and wrongly interpreted and added their own meaning to it -----

They accuse Jesus of being a sinner ---that is being away from God------ and breaking their human interpretation of what they added as non work on the Sabbath -----

If you look up The Talmud about the works on the Sabbath today is full of man made rules and regulations of works that are not allowed to be done on the Sabbath ---they took a piece of scripture and twisted it and added to it to suit their own agenda cause they are unable to understand the Spiritual meaning of what God made the Sabbath for ----

AI


The Talmud, particularly in the tractate Shabbat, extensively details the laws and regulations regarding work on the Sabbath (Shabbat)
Work Prohibitions:

• The 39 Melachot:
  The Talmud identifies 39 specific types of work (melachot) that are prohibited on Shabbat, often based on the work involved in constructing the Tabernacle. Examples include plowing, baking, and weaving.

I say ------you can also read about it here it gives you more on the list

Shabbat's Work Prohibition | My Jewish Learning

jewish,learning,judaism, shabbat, work, sabbath, day of rest, rules, electricity, Ronald L. Eisenberg

www.myjewishlearning.com

----
And Jesus came to show the Pharisees that their interpretation of the Sabbath was wrong and rebelled against their man made rule of healing on the Sabbath ----

Mark 2:27
MSG
Jesus said, “Really? Haven’t you ever read what David did when he was hungry, along with those who were with him?
How he entered the sanctuary and ate fresh bread off the altar, with the Chief Priest Abiathar right there watching—holy bread that no one but priests were allowed to eat—and handed it out to his companions?”

Then Jesus said, “The Sabbath was made to serve us; we weren’t made to serve the Sabbath. The Son of Man is no yes-man to the Sabbath. He’s in charge!”


I say ------The Pharisees say they are Moses's Disciples ----and still today many Jews still follow the Mosaic Laws and teachings of the Torah ---

The man and the Pharisees argue about who Jesus is -----and the man replies

30 The man replied, “Well, this is astonishing! You do not know where He comes from, and yet He opened my eyes!

31 We know [according to your tradition] that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone fears God and does His will, He hears him.

I say ---the Man is saying to the Pharisees according to your own tradition ------God does not hear sinners and this is still true today -----hard Teaching here ----The Pharisees would have been well informed from Isaiah about this very statement the man makes -----

AI

The scripture Isaiah 59:2 states that sin separates individuals from God and hides His face, preventing God from hearing their prayers. This verse highlights the impact of sin on the relationship between humans and God, emphasizing that sin creates a barrier that hinders communication and blessings.

Elaboration:

• Isaiah 59:2:
  The verse reads: "But your iniquities have separated you from your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear."
  
  
• Sin as a barrier:
  This passage emphasizes that sin acts as a barrier between people and God, preventing them from experiencing God's presence and favor.
  
  
• Turning away from God's face:
  The verse suggests that when God's face is hidden, it signifies a lack of God's favor and blessing.
  
  
• Repentance and reconciliation:
  While sin can create a separation, it also emphasizes the importance of repentance and seeking forgiveness, which can restore the relationship with God.

I say ------Yet after all the man says they still will not accept this man's testimony and the Pharisees take offence toward the man and what he is saying and they throw him out of the Synagogue ---

The Pharisees allow their anger --fear ---jealousy and frustration get to them -----no peace in their hearts here in these verses ----

 

[paradox3]

There was division among the Pharisees. It could be this shows a willingness to continue with the process of debate.

 

[paradox3]

John 9:35-41

Bible Gateway passage: John 9:35-41 - New English Translation

The Man’s Response to Jesus - Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, so he found the man and said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” The man replied, “And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?” Jesus told him, “You have seen him; he is the one speaking with you.” [He said...

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Jesus seeks out the man who had been born blind and asks him if he believes in the Son of Man.

"Who is he, that I may believe in him?" the man replies.

Jesus identifies himself and goes on to discuss spiritual blindness. Some of the Pharisees are listening.

 

[paradox3]

Who is He, that I might believe in Him?

This is a wonderful question. We can spend our lifetimes asking it.

 

[Mendalla]

If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin,[q] but now because you claim that you can see,[r] your guilt remains.[t]

So if we are spiritually blind, we do not know we are sinning so we cannot be guilty of sin? Is that what he is saying here?

But if we claim we are spiritually aware and sin, we are guilty because we should know better?

This is a teaching of Jesus I don't recall seeing before. Or maybe it has been glossed over??

 

[Redbaron]

Almost sounds like the dangers of being "woke." If you are try to remain unaware of things, you don't concern yourself with correcting the inequalities of life.

 

[paradox3]

Once we see something, we can't unsee it
Is this what Jesus is getting at here?

 

[paradox3]

A few more noteworthy points:

Jesus pursues the healed man and presses him about his faith.

Jesus tells us he has come into the world for the purpose of judgement.

The Pharisees do not present a unified front.

 

[unsafe]

So here we see Jesus confronting -----Spiritual Blindness -----and Seeing ---here in these verses ---

So the Blind man that was healed is now being confronted by Jesus to see if he believes in the Son of Man ---when Jesus reveals to the man that it is He who is talking with him the man then accepts by Faith that Jesus is the Son of Man and worships Him ===

This verse is important to get Spiritually -----AMPC B

39 Then Jesus said, I came into this world for judgment [as a Separator, in order that there may be separation between those who believe on Me and those who reject Me], to make the sightless see and to make those who see become blind.

Jesus came to bring Division -----some accepted Jesus and some didn't ---so this was one part of Judgment that Jesus brought into this world -----

So this part of His statement here
to make the sightless see

This is speaking of those people who admit to being Spiritual Bind -----that through Faith in Him -He can make them see the truth behind His word -----

this part of His statement here
and to make those who see become blind.

This is speaking of those people who think they have the correct Spiritual meaning of His word without Faith in Him ---and He makes these people Spiritually Blind ----

So the Pharisees come and say ---are we spiritually blind to

The Pharisees thought that they were able to have Spiritual insight into the Scriptures and Jesus is telling them flat out that they do not have Spiritual insight at all -----they just think they do ----

And this stands true today ---many who call themselves Christians think they have Spiritual insight but really they are Spiritually Blinded to the truth of the Scriptures ---

I say
Have to Love this last line ----so in your face teaching ---calling a Spade a Spade --Jesus does it so well ===no sugarcoating here Folks and no half truths ----

41 Jesus said to them, If you were blind, you would have no sin; but because you now claim to have sight, your sin remains. [If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but because you insist, We do see clearly, you are unable to escape your guilt.]

Jesus says to them ---If you were Spiritually Blind ---I could make you Spiritually see that through me your have no sin and no guilt ----but since you already claim that you have the right spiritual insight you remain in your sin and are unable to escape your guilt -----

AI

In scripture, spiritual blindness refers to a lack of spiritual discernment and understanding, often characterized by an inability to recognize and accept divine truths, including Jesus Christ. It's a state where individuals struggle to comprehend God's will, His Word, and how it applies to their lives. This blindness can manifest as a refusal to believe in the truth, difficulty confessing faith, and an inability to see the "big picture" of salvation.