What Legacy Does Trump Leave?

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This is quite horrifying.

"EVERY CANADIAN NEEDS TO READ THIS NEW YORK TIMES REPORT

I’m a longtime subscriber – that’s not going to change, either, because (a) they are the official opposition in the United States and (b) they are literally the only American media that pays serious attention to the Canadian perspective – so I will share with all of you, who are my friends, this story by the Times’ Matina Stevis-Gridneff. It contains truly shocking details which no Canadian media outlet has published to date.

We are under attack, friends. Trump’s America is the enemy. Read this.

"After President Trump imposed tariffs on Canada on Tuesday, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau made an extraordinary statement that was largely lost in the fray of the moment.

“The excuse that he’s giving for these tariffs today of fentanyl is completely bogus, completely unjustified, completely false,” Mr. Trudeau told the news media in Ottawa.

“What he wants is to see a total collapse of the Canadian economy, because that’ll make it easier to annex us,” he added.

This is the story of how Mr. Trudeau went from thinking Mr. Trump was joking when he referred to him as “governor” and Canada as “the 51st state” in early December to publicly stating that Canada’s closest ally and neighbor was implementing a strategy of crushing the country in order to take it over.

The February Calls
Mr. Trump and Mr. Trudeau spoke twice on Feb. 3, once in the morning and again in the afternoon, as part of discussions to stave off tariffs on Canadian exports.

But those early February calls were not just about tariffs.

The details of the conversations between the two leaders, and subsequent discussions among top U.S. and Canadian officials, have not been previously fully reported, and were shared with The New York Times on condition of anonymity by four people with firsthand knowledge of their content. They did not want to be publicly identified discussing a sensitive topic.

On those calls, President Trump laid out a long list of grievances he had with the trade relationship between the two countries, including Canada’s protected dairy sector, the difficulty American banks face in doing business in Canada and Canadian consumption taxes that Mr. Trump deems unfair because they make American goods more expensive.

He also brought up something much more fundamental.

He told Mr. Trudeau that he did not believe that the treaty that demarcates the border between the two countries was valid and that he wants to revise the boundary. He offered no further explanation.

The border treaty Mr. Trump referred to was established in 1908 and finalized the international boundary between Canada, then a British dominion, and the United States.

Mr. Trump also mentioned revisiting the sharing of lakes and rivers between the two nations, which is regulated by a number of treaties, a topic he’s expressed interest about in the past.

Canadian officials took Mr. Trump’s comments seriously, not least because he had already publicly said he wanted to bring Canada to its knees. In a news conference on Jan. 7, before being inaugurated, Mr. Trump, responding to a question by a New York Times reporter about whether he was planning to use military force to annex Canada, said he planned to use “economic force.”

The White House did not respond to a request for comment.

During the second Feb. 3 call, Mr. Trudeau secured a one-month postponement of those tariffs.

This week, the U.S. tariffs came into effect without a fresh reprieve on Tuesday. Canada, in return, imposed its own tariffs on U.S. exports, plunging the two nations into a trade war. (On Thursday, Mr. Trump granted Canada a monthlong suspension on most of the tariffs.)

Glimpses of the rupture between Mr. Trump and Mr. Trudeau, and of Mr. Trump’s aggressive plans for Canada, have been becoming apparent over the past few months.

The Star, a Canadian newspaper, has reported that Mr. Trump mentioned the 1908 border treaty in the early February call and other details from the conversation. And the Financial Times has reported that there are discussions in the White House about removing Canada from a crucial intelligence alliance among five nations, attributing those to a senior Trump adviser.

Doubling Down
But it wasn’t just the president talking about the border and waters with Mr. Trudeau that disturbed the Canadian side.

The persistent social media references to Canada as the 51st state and Mr. Trudeau as its governor had begun to grate both inside the Canadian government and more broadly.

While Mr. Trump’s remarks could all be bluster or a negotiating tactic to pressure Canada into concessions on trade or border security, the Canadian side no longer believes that to be so.

And the realization that the Trump administration was taking a closer and more aggressive look at the relationship, one that tracked with those threats of annexation, sank in during subsequent calls between top Trump officials and Canadian counterparts.

One such call was between Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick — who at the time had not yet been confirmed by the Senate — and Canada’s finance minister, Dominic LeBlanc. The two men had been communicating regularly since they had met at Mar-a-Lago, Mr. Trump’s home and club in Florida, during Mr. Trudeau’s visit there in early December.

Mr. Lutnick called Mr. LeBlanc after the leaders had spoken on Feb. 3, and issued a devastating message, according to several people familiar with the call: Mr. Trump, he said, had come to realize that the relationship between the United States and Canada was governed by a slew of agreements and treaties that were easy to abandon.

Mr. Trump was interested in doing just that, Mr. Lutnick said.

He wanted to eject Canada out of an intelligence-sharing group known as the Five Eyes that also includes Britain, Australia and New Zealand.

He wanted to tear up the Great Lakes agreements and conventions between the two nations that lay out how they share and manage Lakes Superior, Michigan, Huron, Erie and Ontario.

And he is also reviewing military cooperation between the two countries, particularly the North American Aerospace Defense Command.

A spokesperson for Mr. Lutnick did not respond to a request for comment. A spokesperson for Mr. LeBlanc declined to comment.

In subsequent communications between senior Canadian officials and Trump advisers, this list of topics has come up again and again, making it hard for the Canadian government to dismiss them.

The only soothing of nerves has come from Secretary of State Marco Rubio, the four people familiar with the matter said. Mr. Rubio has refrained from delivering threats, and recently dismissed the idea that the United States was looking at scrapping military cooperation.

But Canada’s politicians across the spectrum, and Canadian society at large, are frayed and deeply concerned. Officials do not see the Trump administration’s threats as empty; they see a new normal when it comes to the United States.

On Thursday, at a news conference, a reporter asked Mr. Trudeau: “Your foreign affairs minister yesterday characterized all this as a psychodrama. How would you characterize it?”

“Thursday,” Mr. Trudeau quipped ruefully.""
 
Northwind said:
This is quite horrifying.

"EVERY CANADIAN NEEDS TO READ THIS NEW YORK TIMES REPORT

I’m a longtime subscriber – that’s not going to change, either, because (a) they are the official opposition in the United States and (b) they are literally the only American media that pays serious attention to the Canadian perspective – so I will share with all of you, who are my friends, this story by the Times’ Matina Stevis-Gridneff. It contains truly shocking details which no Canadian media outlet has published to date.

We are under attack, friends. Trump’s America is the enemy. Read this.

"After President Trump imposed tariffs on Canada on Tuesday, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau made an extraordinary statement that was largely lost in the fray of the moment.

“The excuse that he’s giving for these tariffs today of fentanyl is completely bogus, completely unjustified, completely false,” Mr. Trudeau told the news media in Ottawa.

“What he wants is to see a total collapse of the Canadian economy, because that’ll make it easier to annex us,” he added.

This is the story of how Mr. Trudeau went from thinking Mr. Trump was joking when he referred to him as “governor” and Canada as “the 51st state” in early December to publicly stating that Canada’s closest ally and neighbor was implementing a strategy of crushing the country in order to take it over.

The February Calls
Mr. Trump and Mr. Trudeau spoke twice on Feb. 3, once in the morning and again in the afternoon, as part of discussions to stave off tariffs on Canadian exports.

But those early February calls were not just about tariffs.

The details of the conversations between the two leaders, and subsequent discussions among top U.S. and Canadian officials, have not been previously fully reported, and were shared with The New York Times on condition of anonymity by four people with firsthand knowledge of their content. They did not want to be publicly identified discussing a sensitive topic.

On those calls, President Trump laid out a long list of grievances he had with the trade relationship between the two countries, including Canada’s protected dairy sector, the difficulty American banks face in doing business in Canada and Canadian consumption taxes that Mr. Trump deems unfair because they make American goods more expensive.

He also brought up something much more fundamental.

He told Mr. Trudeau that he did not believe that the treaty that demarcates the border between the two countries was valid and that he wants to revise the boundary. He offered no further explanation.

The border treaty Mr. Trump referred to was established in 1908 and finalized the international boundary between Canada, then a British dominion, and the United States.

Mr. Trump also mentioned revisiting the sharing of lakes and rivers between the two nations, which is regulated by a number of treaties, a topic he’s expressed interest about in the past.

Canadian officials took Mr. Trump’s comments seriously, not least because he had already publicly said he wanted to bring Canada to its knees. In a news conference on Jan. 7, before being inaugurated, Mr. Trump, responding to a question by a New York Times reporter about whether he was planning to use military force to annex Canada, said he planned to use “economic force.”

The White House did not respond to a request for comment.

During the second Feb. 3 call, Mr. Trudeau secured a one-month postponement of those tariffs.

This week, the U.S. tariffs came into effect without a fresh reprieve on Tuesday. Canada, in return, imposed its own tariffs on U.S. exports, plunging the two nations into a trade war. (On Thursday, Mr. Trump granted Canada a monthlong suspension on most of the tariffs.)

Glimpses of the rupture between Mr. Trump and Mr. Trudeau, and of Mr. Trump’s aggressive plans for Canada, have been becoming apparent over the past few months.

The Star, a Canadian newspaper, has reported that Mr. Trump mentioned the 1908 border treaty in the early February call and other details from the conversation. And the Financial Times has reported that there are discussions in the White House about removing Canada from a crucial intelligence alliance among five nations, attributing those to a senior Trump adviser.

Doubling Down
But it wasn’t just the president talking about the border and waters with Mr. Trudeau that disturbed the Canadian side.

The persistent social media references to Canada as the 51st state and Mr. Trudeau as its governor had begun to grate both inside the Canadian government and more broadly.

While Mr. Trump’s remarks could all be bluster or a negotiating tactic to pressure Canada into concessions on trade or border security, the Canadian side no longer believes that to be so.

And the realization that the Trump administration was taking a closer and more aggressive look at the relationship, one that tracked with those threats of annexation, sank in during subsequent calls between top Trump officials and Canadian counterparts.

One such call was between Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick — who at the time had not yet been confirmed by the Senate — and Canada’s finance minister, Dominic LeBlanc. The two men had been communicating regularly since they had met at Mar-a-Lago, Mr. Trump’s home and club in Florida, during Mr. Trudeau’s visit there in early December.

Mr. Lutnick called Mr. LeBlanc after the leaders had spoken on Feb. 3, and issued a devastating message, according to several people familiar with the call: Mr. Trump, he said, had come to realize that the relationship between the United States and Canada was governed by a slew of agreements and treaties that were easy to abandon.

Mr. Trump was interested in doing just that, Mr. Lutnick said.

He wanted to eject Canada out of an intelligence-sharing group known as the Five Eyes that also includes Britain, Australia and New Zealand.

He wanted to tear up the Great Lakes agreements and conventions between the two nations that lay out how they share and manage Lakes Superior, Michigan, Huron, Erie and Ontario.

And he is also reviewing military cooperation between the two countries, particularly the North American Aerospace Defense Command.

A spokesperson for Mr. Lutnick did not respond to a request for comment. A spokesperson for Mr. LeBlanc declined to comment.

In subsequent communications between senior Canadian officials and Trump advisers, this list of topics has come up again and again, making it hard for the Canadian government to dismiss them.

The only soothing of nerves has come from Secretary of State Marco Rubio, the four people familiar with the matter said. Mr. Rubio has refrained from delivering threats, and recently dismissed the idea that the United States was looking at scrapping military cooperation.

But Canada’s politicians across the spectrum, and Canadian society at large, are frayed and deeply concerned. Officials do not see the Trump administration’s threats as empty; they see a new normal when it comes to the United States.

On Thursday, at a news conference, a reporter asked Mr. Trudeau: “Your foreign affairs minister yesterday characterized all this as a psychodrama. How would you characterize it?”

“Thursday,” Mr. Trudeau quipped ruefully.""
Click to expand...
Let’s not forget who we are, Northwind. We’re a nation that thrives on diversity and strength. We’ve weathered plenty of storms before. We’ll do it again. If anything, this is a reminder of why we must stand united.

Ours will be a legacy of hope. Let’s channel our energy into building bridges, and showing the world what it means to be Canadian
 
This is encouraging.

"Some signs of hope ...

A couple of weeks ago -- a week or so into the new Musk-Trump (kind-of-Vance) administration, I posted info from someone who said that calling your (mainly Republican) representatives was much more effective than writing letters.

But since then, we've found out that most of those calls are going unanswered (or listened-to), and it turns out that, at this point, writing letters might be more effective.

Here is some very interesting info about what is happening that most of us don't know about, and what we can do. This comes from a group phone meeting with Representatives Jamie Raskin, of Maryland, and Melanie Stansbury, of New Mexico, as reported by activist Ariella Elm:
------------------------------------------------
She says:

"Here is some of what I got out of the call:

"Melanie talked at length about what is going on behind closed doors. She said that all 215 Dem are communicating on a scale they never have before and the senators are doing the same. She said they are using their voting power and using actions to put sand in the gears and be unruly even if we’re not seeing or understanding at all.

"She is on the DOGE subcommittee and she is using her oversight authority on that committee

"Also, every Dem House member is on some sort of task force. Only the Rapid Response one is public, but there are a lot of others as well.

"She also said that Republicans who publicly say positive things are not doing the same privately. And when we have letters that work, she referenced the fact that they quietly ended mass layoffs for tribal programs, it is because Republicans were speaking to the secretaries and to the administration and expressing their disdain.

"So one way the letters are working, is that they get Republican electeds to act behind-the-scenes. That is probably the same thing that happened with Sen Jon Ossoff and how he got the admin to resume funding for the HBCU agriculture scholarship program.

"So we need to stop making fun of the letters and saying they’re not doing anything, they are.

"She said “don’t be fooled by the mirage they put on TV”

"She also said that the Democratic AG are meeting daily to decide how to push forward, which are the best lawsuits, what organizations to work with for those lawsuits.

"Raskin spoke next and he answered a bunch of questions in the clearest terms I have heard so far. First, what do we do if DT refuses to comply with the court orders?

"The judges can issue a contempt motion, which criminally we don’t have any standing for because that involves the DOJ, which is not on our side, but civilly it does not involve the DOJ.

"The courts can do things like seize property and impose fines, even on a daily basis. So for EM that would mean a fine of 100K a day until he does what the court ordered

"And if that doesn’t work, then we are at bigger actions that will be facilitated by the Democrats themselves, BUT WE ARE NOT THERE YET

"We are winning in court, and he is complying with some cases

"Next he talked about our data.

"We are winning in the treasury case, but that doesn’t imply our data is safe.

"There is a class action lawsuit that we can use. Thanks to a Reagan law from 1986, that Raskin will provide more detail for in the very near future. For us to have standing, we have to have proof that our data has been tampered with and right now we have speculation, not proof. But the idea is that the entire US will be able to be a plaintiff.

"He was asked what they are doing to bring Republicans over.

"He said that they’re focusing on Republicans who are retiring or who are freshmen and didn’t know what they signed up for, yes, there are some.

"He also said that he had Boebert and her family over for dinner. So if you’re asking how they’re talking to their Republican colleagues to try and talk some sense into them it’s really colleague to colleague conversations. They are trying every single tactic in the book.

"And he reiterated that the administration is offending and threatening a number of Republicans in moderate districts

"He was asked directly about the shadow cabinet idea.

"It’s going to require negotiations between the House and Senate and the DNC who will take the lead.

"But the biggest concern right now, and the reason that it hasn’t started, is because some electeds are worried that once someone is assigned to be a shadow to a certain agency no one else will do their job. Kind of like how when you have a group project and one person takes charge, the rest of the people don’t do anything. So the people in favor of a shadow cabinet are having to convince the people not in favor of it that will run smoothly and be successful

"He was also asked about what is going to happen with the agencies.

"This is a case where Congress has standing and no one else does. That’s why the unions got ruled against, they just didn’t have the standing.

"He said we will have more info about this in the coming weeks, but given that they are trying to reverse a century of American history, Democrats and Congress will probably be asserting their right to go to court themselves on behalf of the agencies

"And lastly for Raskin, he talked about corruption.

"Whenever you see the idea that they are getting rid of waste fraud and abuse you need to shut it down. 

"He suggested that everyone takes some time and read this document (https://democrats-judiciary.house.g...2-25.hjc-dem.weaponization_hearing_report.pdf)

"As well as other documents on the same subject in different committees, like appropriations and oversight.

"If the administration cared about corruption at all, they would not have fired the Inspectors General. Corruption is needed for authoritarianism to thrive.

"We have to find the language to explain this to people who either don’t get it or don’t think they care

"Finally, Melanie came back to talk about our calls to action.

"She reiterated the importance of town halls, calling and showing up.

"Raskin also mentioned that if you want to have a Democrat in your Republican district, you have to contact them. They aren’t gonna come unless they’re invited. They do not wanna overstep.

"So please invite Democrats from nearby districts !

"If you are a donor, especially if you’re a Republican donor, use that power. Contact all of the electeds that you donated to and pressure them. That includes if you know members of your local government, they can put pressure on their national counterparts, kind of like what the Alaskan state legislature did yesterday:

(https://s3.documentcloud.org/docume...-letter-to-congressional-delegation-22725.pdf)

"And if you know anyone involved in the administration, use that power, I know most people reading this probably don’t, but I also don’t know who follows me.

"The secretaries, even the worst of the worst were not OK with EM asking their staff what they did that week. We can use that.

"And finally, get involved on the ground in any way you possibly can, that means mutual aid that means helping candidates get elected at every level of government and that means maybe even running for office.

"So, we have our marching orders from our favorite Democrats in Congress themselves, and we know what they are doing, and, yes, things are happening behind closed doors. I hope this helps.

"I got a lot out of the meeting and I hope you get a lot out of this summary.

"Our voices are our superpower, but only when we use them!""
 
Northwind said:
This is encouraging.

"Some signs of hope ...

A couple of weeks ago -- a week or so into the new Musk-Trump (kind-of-Vance) administration, I posted info from someone who said that calling your (mainly Republican) representatives was much more effective than writing letters.

But since then, we've found out that most of those calls are going unanswered (or listened-to), and it turns out that, at this point, writing letters might be more effective.

Here is some very interesting info about what is happening that most of us don't know about, and what we can do. This comes from a group phone meeting with Representatives Jamie Raskin, of Maryland, and Melanie Stansbury, of New Mexico, as reported by activist Ariella Elm:
------------------------------------------------
She says:

"Here is some of what I got out of the call:

"Melanie talked at length about what is going on behind closed doors. She said that all 215 Dem are communicating on a scale they never have before and the senators are doing the same. She said they are using their voting power and using actions to put sand in the gears and be unruly even if we’re not seeing or understanding at all.

"She is on the DOGE subcommittee and she is using her oversight authority on that committee

"Also, every Dem House member is on some sort of task force. Only the Rapid Response one is public, but there are a lot of others as well.

"She also said that Republicans who publicly say positive things are not doing the same privately. And when we have letters that work, she referenced the fact that they quietly ended mass layoffs for tribal programs, it is because Republicans were speaking to the secretaries and to the administration and expressing their disdain.

"So one way the letters are working, is that they get Republican electeds to act behind-the-scenes. That is probably the same thing that happened with Sen Jon Ossoff and how he got the admin to resume funding for the HBCU agriculture scholarship program.

"So we need to stop making fun of the letters and saying they’re not doing anything, they are.

"She said “don’t be fooled by the mirage they put on TV”

"She also said that the Democratic AG are meeting daily to decide how to push forward, which are the best lawsuits, what organizations to work with for those lawsuits.

"Raskin spoke next and he answered a bunch of questions in the clearest terms I have heard so far. First, what do we do if DT refuses to comply with the court orders?

"The judges can issue a contempt motion, which criminally we don’t have any standing for because that involves the DOJ, which is not on our side, but civilly it does not involve the DOJ.

"The courts can do things like seize property and impose fines, even on a daily basis. So for EM that would mean a fine of 100K a day until he does what the court ordered

"And if that doesn’t work, then we are at bigger actions that will be facilitated by the Democrats themselves, BUT WE ARE NOT THERE YET

"We are winning in court, and he is complying with some cases

"Next he talked about our data.

"We are winning in the treasury case, but that doesn’t imply our data is safe.

"There is a class action lawsuit that we can use. Thanks to a Reagan law from 1986, that Raskin will provide more detail for in the very near future. For us to have standing, we have to have proof that our data has been tampered with and right now we have speculation, not proof. But the idea is that the entire US will be able to be a plaintiff.

"He was asked what they are doing to bring Republicans over.

"He said that they’re focusing on Republicans who are retiring or who are freshmen and didn’t know what they signed up for, yes, there are some.

"He also said that he had Boebert and her family over for dinner. So if you’re asking how they’re talking to their Republican colleagues to try and talk some sense into them it’s really colleague to colleague conversations. They are trying every single tactic in the book.

"And he reiterated that the administration is offending and threatening a number of Republicans in moderate districts

"He was asked directly about the shadow cabinet idea.

"It’s going to require negotiations between the House and Senate and the DNC who will take the lead.

"But the biggest concern right now, and the reason that it hasn’t started, is because some electeds are worried that once someone is assigned to be a shadow to a certain agency no one else will do their job. Kind of like how when you have a group project and one person takes charge, the rest of the people don’t do anything. So the people in favor of a shadow cabinet are having to convince the people not in favor of it that will run smoothly and be successful

"He was also asked about what is going to happen with the agencies.

"This is a case where Congress has standing and no one else does. That’s why the unions got ruled against, they just didn’t have the standing.

"He said we will have more info about this in the coming weeks, but given that they are trying to reverse a century of American history, Democrats and Congress will probably be asserting their right to go to court themselves on behalf of the agencies

"And lastly for Raskin, he talked about corruption.

"Whenever you see the idea that they are getting rid of waste fraud and abuse you need to shut it down. 

"He suggested that everyone takes some time and read this document (https://democrats-judiciary.house.g...2-25.hjc-dem.weaponization_hearing_report.pdf)

"As well as other documents on the same subject in different committees, like appropriations and oversight.

"If the administration cared about corruption at all, they would not have fired the Inspectors General. Corruption is needed for authoritarianism to thrive.

"We have to find the language to explain this to people who either don’t get it or don’t think they care

"Finally, Melanie came back to talk about our calls to action.

"She reiterated the importance of town halls, calling and showing up.

"Raskin also mentioned that if you want to have a Democrat in your Republican district, you have to contact them. They aren’t gonna come unless they’re invited. They do not wanna overstep.

"So please invite Democrats from nearby districts !

"If you are a donor, especially if you’re a Republican donor, use that power. Contact all of the electeds that you donated to and pressure them. That includes if you know members of your local government, they can put pressure on their national counterparts, kind of like what the Alaskan state legislature did yesterday:

(https://s3.documentcloud.org/docume...-letter-to-congressional-delegation-22725.pdf)

"And if you know anyone involved in the administration, use that power, I know most people reading this probably don’t, but I also don’t know who follows me.

"The secretaries, even the worst of the worst were not OK with EM asking their staff what they did that week. We can use that.

"And finally, get involved on the ground in any way you possibly can, that means mutual aid that means helping candidates get elected at every level of government and that means maybe even running for office.

"So, we have our marching orders from our favorite Democrats in Congress themselves, and we know what they are doing, and, yes, things are happening behind closed doors. I hope this helps.

"I got a lot out of the meeting and I hope you get a lot out of this summary.

"Our voices are our superpower, but only when we use them!""
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about the letters and even the protests are sounding a little lame. Of course I, as an older person, I would agree to protesting in the streets and write those letters, but then Trump comes along and uses Josh Rogan as a campaign tool and billionaires also.
So, are we, the older crowd, living in the past as far as how we should approach letting ourselves and the younger generations be heard? Should we get advice from our up and coming generations that might be affective? How do we get them to vote more? How do we stop a somewhat apathetic generation from ignoring the importance of voting? I mean there's Trump getting votes from the men within a younger generation, was that the case for the Democrats?
What can we learn from all of this?
How do we stress the importance of Democracy to those younger than us? when most do not have a clue what happens when that disappears?
 
Waterfall said:
I'm not sure about the letters and even the protests are sounding a little lame. Of course I, as an older person, I would agree to protesting in the streets and write those letters, but then Trump comes along and uses Josh Rogan as a campaign tool and billionaires also.
So, are we, the older crowd, living in the past as far as how we should approach letting ourselves and the younger generations be heard? Should we get advice from our up and coming generations that might be affective? How do we get them to vote more? How do we stop a somewhat apathetic generation from ignoring the importance of voting? I mean there's Trump getting votes from the men within a younger generation, was that the case for the Democrats?
What can we learn from all of this?
How do we stress the importance of Democracy to those younger than us? when most do not have a clue what happens when that disappears?
Click to expand...
The beauty of democracy lies in its ability to evolve with the times. It’s time to embrace new ways of connecting with younger generations. They’re "digital natives," after all.

I see potential. Younger folks care deeply about issues like climate change and equality. They just express it differently. Through ways like videos, memes, social media, and such. We older folks must learn from their methods. It’s about walking side by side.

Let’s use the value of respect to inspire the next generation about the importance of democracy. It’s about how we show up for them. Actions speak louder than words
 
I ‘knew’ for a long time that the freedom of speech thing from the alt-right was a ruse, a long-con.

This is actually real! :eek: Adding new pronouns - not hurting anyone. This, however, is dangerous to freedom. Coming from the POTUS.


www.independent.co.uk

FDA scientists told ‘woman’ and ‘disabled’ are on Trump’s banned word list

Workers were previously told to remove words such as gender, transgender, LGBT and nonbinary from communications
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
 
Waterfall said:
I'm not sure about the letters and even the protests are sounding a little lame. Of course I, as an older person, I would agree to protesting in the streets and write those letters, but then Trump comes along and uses Josh Rogan as a campaign tool and billionaires also.
So, are we, the older crowd, living in the past as far as how we should approach letting ourselves and the younger generations be heard? Should we get advice from our up and coming generations that might be affective? How do we get them to vote more? How do we stop a somewhat apathetic generation from ignoring the importance of voting? I mean there's Trump getting votes from the men within a younger generation, was that the case for the Democrats?
What can we learn from all of this?
How do we stress the importance of Democracy to those younger than us? when most do not have a clue what happens when that disappears?
Click to expand...
…many pundits - armchair and career pundits - made the mistake of treating Trump’s second run as politics as usual when really they’d have to be out to lunch to have not seen this coming and should NEVER have just gone through the usual motions to appease their networks and had any of the public believing any of it was normal functioning democracy. Including the Democrats. They didn’t do enough. They legitimized his run. He shouldn’t have been allowed to run. Older people I know have shaken their heads and shrugged their shoulders, grumbled a bit, sworn out of character, but not much else. I imagine older Americans got out and exercised their civic duty to vote but nobody was as alarmed as they should’ve been. I think older people have let younger generations down and created the complacency. Centrists (which is elusive when there’s been a rightward shift in the world that they weren’t taking seriously enough) don’t usually take to the streets or make noise, and creatures of habit don’t want to step out of their comfort zones.

I think the complacency will change, that’s starting, but only after harm is already well underway.

Biden had to have had intel on this and his team should’ve done a lot more to block Trump’s run. America’s enemies are now their friends and they’re treating their old friends like s**t and this didn’t just happen without years of planning. So the Dems are to blame too.

I just want to shout in all caps: “WHO DIDN’T SEE SOMETHING LIKE THIS COMING?!” That’s where the blame is.
 
Last edited:
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
I ‘knew’ for a long time that the freedom of speech thing from the alt-right was a ruse, a long-con.

This is actually real! :eek: Adding new pronouns - not hurting anyone. This, however, is dangerous to freedom. Coming from the POTUS.


www.independent.co.uk

FDA scientists told ‘woman’ and ‘disabled’ are on Trump’s banned word list

Workers were previously told to remove words such as gender, transgender, LGBT and nonbinary from communications
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
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Someone must have made a joke to show how ridiculous this is- what are they going to say instead of “woman” - “ the other one who is the opposite of male”?
 
Lets face it ... the entire farce is a great misunderstanding:

When a person declares that actions like Jan 6 are an expression of love ... has the will gone to extremes so as to be a destructive emotion?

As the notorious song declares;
  • know when to hold
  • know when fold
  • know when to walk away
  • know when to run
Forthcoming know how about the variations in emotions! Many cannot observe it because of the miasma ... (that's chaos, din and all that mess)!

Note there we few Q's in place ... the queue's were tied up none loose --- Lucile? When going with the gambler have a fuzzy little light!

Some do not even have the fuzziest idea of what that means, but a crap load of will! Ever meet that type of character? You cn see it in their aye MU'n ...
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
I just want to shout in all caps: “WHO DIDN’T SEE SOMETHING LIKE THIS COMING?!” That’s where the blame is.
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Exactly.

I've been frustrated by people responding as if this was a normal presidential candidate. Journalists who wanted to be fair and impartial. Leaders who thought they could negotiate with a crazed president who has a severe personality disorder and who is on a revenge mission fueled by rage. I've been frustrated by voters who believed his crap. Young men are apparently enamoured by him. It's not just the old folks.

I hope people are waking up and that it's not too late.
 
Northwind said:
Exactly.

I've been frustrated by people responding as if this was a normal presidential candidate. Journalists who wanted to be fair and impartial. Leaders who thought they could negotiate with a crazed president who has a severe personality disorder and who is on a revenge mission fueled by rage. I've been frustrated by voters who believed his crap. Young men are apparently enamoured by him. It's not just the old folks.

I hope people are waking up and that it's not too late.
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And some say there is nothing that is insane as if we're the brightest!
 
Imagine a purge as a wash out ... and the Irish lass will not throw out the wash water! Why ... Ah' Qui ... hold your water for when the thing flames ...

Sweat Lodges and Saunas proliferate ... naked virtue ... esteem! Poe Zae ... Lotus in the shadow ... mant rap? Succubus ... succulent ... the ancients believed the head man was for cooling ... go dip it ... search out a spot! May be a portal ... like a hole in dah mire-ah ... some say Myrrha ... resinous!
 
Northwind said:
Exactly.

I've been frustrated by people responding as if this was a normal presidential candidate. Journalists who wanted to be fair and impartial. Leaders who thought they could negotiate with a crazed president who has a severe personality disorder and who is on a revenge mission fueled by rage. I've been frustrated by voters who believed his crap. Young men are apparently enamoured by him. It's not just the old folks.

I hope people are waking up and that it's not too late.
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What's the plan after we wake up? Is there one?
 
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