Snoopy Examines Exodus

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
Status
Not open for further replies.
Did all those peoples named in v.11 get annihilated, does anyone know?

Or were some of them displaced?

Do they have descendants living today? I read somewhere that descendants of the original Canaanites can be found in present day Lebanon.

Does anyone know if this is factual or a hypothesis?

O
 
@unsafe
I think the whole question of who can come into God's presence and receive God's pardon is up to God, really.

Different varieties of Christians have a different take on this question, for sure.

In the New Creed of my denomination, it states that we believe God works in us and others through the Spirit. Most of us believe God's grace is not confined to Born Again folks.

Once again, you & I differ.
 
paradox3 said:
@unsafe
I think the whole question of who can come into God's presence and receive God's pardon is up to God, really.

Different varieties of Christians have a different take on this question, for sure.

In the New Creed of my denomination, it states that we believe God works in us and others through the Spirit. Most of us believe God's grace is not confined to Born Again folks.

Once again, you & I differ.
Click to expand...
So what your saying is the scriptures are completely disregarded and people believe in a man made Creed that they have every right to access God and be pardoned when His Word who is Jesus by the way says otherwise ---

I agree it is up to God------ and God lays out very clearly in His word as to how one is to access Him ----

We can certainly believe what we want to ---but be aware that what you believe may not the real truth as if everyone can just have access to God and be pardoned ---then God is a liar and so is His word ---and Jesus died for nothing ----and Christianity becomes a Hoax ----

Show me in Scripture in the Old Testament where all Gentiles had access to God and were pardoned ----you won't find one ----the Gentiles were doomed in the Old Testament ---and so are people today who do not receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour ----

God doesn't change ---you have to access God today the same way the Jews has to access God in the Old Testament ---by Shed Blood to cover sin ---and that starts right in Genesis when Adam and Eve Sinned and God made them clothes out of animal skin ---God skinned the animal to make their clothes ----Blood had to be shed ----
 
@unsafe
We are straying a bit too far from Exodus here.

If you would like to discuss the nature of scripture & how we approach it, please start a thread in R&F about it.
 
unsafe said:
Show me in Scripture in the Old Testament where all Gentiles had access to God and were pardoned ----you won't find one ----the Gentiles were doomed in the Old Testament ---and so are people today who do not receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour ----
Click to expand...
-God placed Israel at the centre of the gentile nations as a light to those outside of the covenant of Abraham.
So God included all nations in his plan of salvation.

- also Isaiah 52:10
 
unsafe said:
Show me in Scripture in the Old Testament where all Gentiles had access to God and were pardoned ----you won't find one ----the Gentiles were doomed in the Old Testament ---and so are people today who do not receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour ----
Click to expand...

There's no suggestion that ALL gentiles had access to god. There was a specific category of Gentile, and Job was one, deemed "righteous gentiles" who needed only to adhere to the Noahide covenant.

  1. Not to worship idols.
  2. Not to curse God.
  3. Not to commit murder.
  4. Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality
  5. Not to steal.
  6. Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.
  7. To establish courts of justice.
 
When I first learned about the Noahide Laws, I assumed we could open our Bibles and find a list of them somewhere.

When I did a little digging, I learned the 7 laws originate in the OT but the list wasn't compiled until the Talmud.
 
paradox3 said:
When I first learned about the Noahide Laws, I assumed we could open our Bibles and find a list of them somewhere.

When I did a little digging, I learned the 7 laws originate in the OT but the list wasn't compiled until the Talmud.
Click to expand...
The ideas behind the Noahide laws can arguably said to be found in the OT, but the laws themselves are extrabiblical ️
 
Exodus 34:14-28
www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 34:14-28 - New English Translation

For you must not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. Be careful not to make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to their gods, and someone invites you, you will eat from his...
www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com
God repeats some of the commandments and ordinances previously given to Moses.

God tells Moses to write down these words. Moses spends forty days and nights with God. During this time he does not eat bread or drink water.

The Ten Commandments are written on the tablets.
 
Jae said:
The ideas behind the Noahide laws can arguably said to be found in the OT, but the laws themselves are extrabiblical ️
Click to expand...
Not sure what you mean by extrabibiblical. The first five Noahide laws reflect five of the Ten Commandments.

Are you referring to the fact that the list wasn't complied until the Talmud?
 
paradox3 said:
Not sure what you mean by extrabibiblical. The first five Noahide laws reflect five of the Ten Commandments.
Click to expand...
Which is part of the reason that I said that the ideas behind the Noahide Laws can arguably be found in the OT. Those ideas should be honored and respected. As for the Laws themselves, though, while they may have some educational purpose, they come outside the Bible and thus they don't have the same authority as what's in the Bible. It's the Bible that's the authority on all matters of Christian faith and practice
 
I think you are splitting hairs Brother@Jae but that's fine. Split away.

The Noahide Laws are significant in present day Judaism. Jews believe that Gentiles are good with God if they follow the Noahide Laws. In other words, there is no need for anyone to convert to Judaism.

Judaism does accept converts but quite a process is involved.

The list of 7 laws doesn't necessarily inform Christian faith. (On this, we agree with each other.)

It does, however, help us understand our Jewish brothers and sisters. Always important in my view.
 
paradox3 said:
Did all those peoples named in v.11 get annihilated, does anyone know?

Or were some of them displaced?

Do they have descendants living today? I read somewhere that descendants of the original Canaanites can be found in present day Lebanon.

Does anyone know if this is factual or a hypothesis?

O
Click to expand...
AS the text of the Jewish Scriptures goes on it seems clear that they were not all gone. One strong theory of what actually may have happened is that a small-ish group of migrants took over the role of power and many of the people who were already there 'converted' (for lack of a better term) to fit in with the new rulers -- as opposed to the Scriptural picture of a massive nation coming in and taking over.

Some segment of the PAlestinian population is likely descended form those who were there before the HEbrew people (however many of them there were) descended on that part of the world. Since borders and boundaries are very malleable over several thousand years and peoples move/are moved around there is a certain lack of precision in th=ose debates
 
Waterfall said:
God placed Israel at the centre of the gentile nations as a light to those outside of the covenant of Abraham.
So God included all nations in his plan of salvation.

- also Isaiah 52:10
Click to expand...
Sorry if this is off topic but -------Just to clarify what Waterfall here is saying -----

I have no idea where you get what your saying for Isaiah 52:10 ---from

This is what Isaiah 52 :10 says in context AMP B

The Lord has bared His holy arm (His infinite power)
Before the eyes of all the nations [revealing Himself as the One by Whom Israel is redeemed from captivity],
That all the ends of the earth may see
The salvation of our God.

Again you cannot take this scripture and say that the Gentiles in the Old Testament had access to God and are pardoned -----that is not what isaiah 52 in context is about -----

verse 10 is saying that all the nations will witness God's Greatness by him bringing Israel out of the bondage of the Egyptians ------

Salvation here is not meaning that all people are Redeemed from their sins and now have access to God and are pardoned from their sins ------

Many Jews today are still not redeemed from their sins as they rejected Jesus ----and remain under the laws which they cannot keep ---

Salvation here means The Israelites being deliverance from their EXTERNAL EVIl ----which is their Bondage in Egypt ====

Strong's Concordance
yeshuah: salvation
deeds of deliverance , deliverance
salvation by God, primarily from external evils,; Isaiah 52:10
 
Just a reminder @unsafe that the purple font is reserved for the moderators on WC2. I have spotted you using it a few times on other threads as well.
 
unsafe said:
Sorry if this is off topic but -------Just to clarify what Waterfall here is saying -----

I have no idea where you get what your saying for Isaiah 52:10 ---from

This is what Isaiah 52 :10 says in context AMP B

The Lord has bared His holy arm (His infinite power)
Before the eyes of all the nations [revealing Himself as the One by Whom Israel is redeemed from captivity],
That all the ends of the earth may see
The salvation of our God.

Again you cannot take this scripture and say that the Gentiles in the Old Testament had access to God and are pardoned -----that is not what isaiah 52 in context is about -----

verse 10 is saying that all the nations will witness God's Greatness by him bringing Israel out of the bondage of the Egyptians ------

Salvation here is not meaning that all people are Redeemed from their sins and now have access to God and are pardoned from their sins ------

Many Jews today are still not redeemed from their sins as they rejected Jesus ----and remain under the laws which they cannot keep ---

Salvation here means The Israelites being deliverance from their EXTERNAL EVIl ----which is their Bondage in Egypt ====

Strong's Concordance
yeshuah: salvation
deeds of deliverance , deliverance
salvation by God, primarily from external evils,; Isaiah 52:10
Click to expand...
52:10 doesn't directly reference God's freeing the Israelites from bondage in Egypt, unsafe. What it does talk about is God making his power and salvation visible to all nations. Today, one and all who accept Christ will be saved
 
unsafe said:
Sorry if this is off topic but -------Just to clarify what Waterfall here is saying -----

I have no idea where you get what your saying for Isaiah 52:10 ---from

This is what Isaiah 52 :10 says in context AMP B

The Lord has bared His holy arm (His infinite power)
Before the eyes of all the nations [revealing Himself as the One by Whom Israel is redeemed from captivity],
That all the ends of the earth may see
The salvation of our God.

Again you cannot take this scripture and say that the Gentiles in the Old Testament had access to God and are pardoned -----that is not what isaiah 52 in context is about -----

verse 10 is saying that all the nations will witness God's Greatness by him bringing Israel out of the bondage of the Egyptians ------

Salvation here is not meaning that all people are Redeemed from their sins and now have access to God and are pardoned from their sins ------

Many Jews today are still not redeemed from their sins as they rejected Jesus ----and remain under the laws which they cannot keep ---

Salvation here means The Israelites being deliverance from their EXTERNAL EVIl ----which is their Bondage in Egypt ====

Strong's Concordance
yeshuah: salvation
deeds of deliverance , deliverance
salvation by God, primarily from external evils,; Isaiah 52:10
Click to expand...
The first one is Isaiah 49:6 with interpretation from a Jewish perspective and servant meaning the nation of Israel, whereas Christians think of Jesus as the servant.
The other one (52:10) is just added reading.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top