Making All Things New: (Revelation 21: 1-8)

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jimkenney12 said:
If someone is gravely ill, does expecting their death mean you are against them? People who study the rise and fall of empires do not have to be anti American to speculate about when or how it will collapse.
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But to avoid being meaningless in a giggle-worthy way, the prediction of "the end of the American Empire" needs to be defined.
What does "American Empire" mean? Are they predicting a nuke-out "end?" If not, what does "end" mean? The very vagueness betrays a cliched anti-American bias.
 

Can we stay on Revelation and leave the American situation out of this?



That's to everyone in the thread. You can always start a thread in Earth & Our World or Politics for that discussion.
 
In "Space Ships", the author provided references to how creation and other myths evolved at different times with traces of those myths being found in the mythology of cultures thousands of years later. Traumatic events are stored in myths that are passed on from generation to generation. I am confident that those famines, wars, and epidemics generated such myths that would have been circulating when Revelations was written. Of course. Rome's destruction of Jerusalem would also be close to mind
 
I sure wish someone would respond to the questions I have raised about heaven and end times.
 
jimkenney12 said:
In "Space Ships", the author provided references to how creation and other myths evolved at different times with traces of those myths being found in the mythology of cultures thousands of years later. Traumatic events are stored in myths that are passed on from generation to generation. I am confident that those famines, wars, and epidemics generated such myths that would have been circulating when Revelations was written. Of course. Rome's destruction of Jerusalem would also be close to mind
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The number of "the Beast" is "666 (13:18)," an example of gematria in which the letters of ancient Mediterranean alphabets stand for numbers.
In this case the letters of "Emperor Nero" in Hebrew ("caesar Neron") total 666. The Latin Vulgate changes the number to "616" because the letters of Emperor Nero in Latin total 616. Nero was forced out of office and exiled to Asia Minor, where he vanishes from history, prompting speculation that he committed suicide. But Roman historians report rumors that he was now alive and raising armies to regain his throne. In fact, there were 3 Nero impersonators who fueled this myth, which serves as the background for 13:3:

"One of its heads seemed to have received a death-blow, but its mortal wound had been healed. In amazement the whole world followed the Beast."

The myth of Nero redivivus terrorized Christians who feared further persecution from him. The interpretative issue here is whether the prophecy points to Nero himself or a new Nero-like world leader.
 
I look at universal meanings for these stories, rather than truly apocalyptic meanings. I think that the likelihood of the Earth disappearing is very unlikely (until the event billions of years in the future as described by Mendalla and informed by astrophysics occurs), but I do think that the chances of not only the death of the current Empires, but also of the extinction of all humanity (or all but a remnant), are pretty real.

Obviously, the way that humanity constructs its systems right now is pretty shitty for the bulk of humanity (and a real sweet bonus for about 2000 billionaires). Would we do better if we had to start again from scratch, or is humanity doomed to a certain lowest common denominator of greed, lust and sloth?
 
Mystic said:
That is a bogus woke interpretation by people who know neither Hebrew or Greek and thus dislike the masculinity of "king" imagery.
In Hebrew and Aramaic the word in question is "malchut" which means "kingdom" in the sense of "reign" or "realm," but certainly not "kin-dom."
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How do you feel about "at-one-ment" for atonement?
 
paradox3 said:
How do you feel about "at-one-ment" for atonement?
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A cutesy English wordplay that ignores the fact that the Bible was not originally written in King James English. The Hebrew word for "atonement" is "cephar" which means "cover" in the sense of covering up guilt and sin, so that God no longer perceives it.
 
paradox3 said:
Thinking ng some more about heaven. There is a popular view of going there to be with our loved ones when we die. Does anyone see any support in scripture for this?
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A simple but good question because the New Testament nowhere claims that we will be "with our loved ones when we die." A greeting committee including deceased loved ones and family members is a routine part of Near-Death Experiences; so many Christians just assume that the Bible teaches such postmortem reunions. Heaven is a place of bliss and we just can't imagine such bliss without sharing it with our loved ones. So NDEs should probably be considered new revelation.
 
Mystic said:
A simple but good question because the New Testament nowhere claims that we will be "with our loved ones when we die." A greeting committee including deceased loved ones and family members is a routine part of Near-Death Experiences; so many Christians just assume that the Bible teaches such postmortem reunions. Heaven is a place of bliss and we just can't imagine such bliss without sharing it with our loved ones. So NDEs should probably be considered new revelation.
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It'll be neat seeing Megaera again

It is so neat that science even prooves consciousness exists after bodily death

Reality is so cool :3
 
Only in a book or tome they say ... that's the story they are sticking to in a large floe ...

Is there something beyond this representing nothing ... like lying out there under the Knight Skye, as it rides over us? Imagine what a time, or epic that would take ... explains large peaces of it ...
 
Mystic said:
A simple but good question because the New Testament nowhere claims that we will be "with our loved ones when we die."
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The Bible tells us that heaven is God's dwelling place. Possibly this is all that it tells us.

Mystic said:
A greeting committee including deceased loved ones and family members is a routine part of Near-Death Experiences; so many Christians just assume that the Bible teaches such postmortem reunions.
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Reunion with our loved ones after death is a prominent idea in popular culture. Atheists would deny it but agnostics likely keep the door open. We long for it to be so.

Mystic said:
Heaven is a place of bliss and we just can't imagine such bliss without sharing it with our loved ones. So NDEs should probably be considered new revelation.
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How do we know that heaven is a place of bliss? I have always thought of heaven more as a place of profound peace.
 
Such is the great darkness, a shadow we can draw from ... if you can make something of it. My grandfather was big on nothing of that kind ... dreams were elucidated ... in peace! Of course there were always wingers and nuts ... falling from the erable ... close to a maple as ironwood be ... sycamore lane ...

May appear as Hernández ...
 
I've often wondered if earth is paradise, where we are refined before heaven. Another chance to make it to heaven and learn and Jesus reminding us what it will take for that journey to get there.
Total speculation....but it does make me wonder what the seven heavens are.
Paul was caught in the third heaven, but there is mention of seven heavens. Anyone?
 
Waterfall said:
I've often wondered if earth is paradise, where we are refined before heaven. Another chance to make it to heaven and learn and Jesus reminding us what it will take for that journey to get there.
Total speculation....but it does make me wonder what the seven heavens are.
Paul was caught in the third heaven, but there is mention of seven heavens. Anyone?
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The "seven heavens" is a concept in Islam. It might also exist in Judaism; I am not sure.

The NT gives us three layers of heaven AFAIK
 
And there are four hells.....Sheol, Gehenna,Tartaurus and Hades. In 1611 the King James version translated them all as Hell, strange because they are not all the same.
Psalm 139....Jacob says, "if I go up to the heavens, you are there, "if I go into the "depths" ( depths is Sheol) you are there." So according to Jacob God is also in Shoel.

Gehenna is based on an actual place the Valley of Hinnon, which was a place of actual sacrifice in Israel's history and later a place for garbage and eternal fires. Gehenna was used later used in the Rabbinic community as a metaphor as the place for spiritual purifying, as in purgatory.

Tartarus and Hades was related to Greek culture and influenced Jewish culture of the 1st century.
Tartarus was where Greek gods sent other gods sent other gods for punishment and is only in the NT once (2 Peter 2:4) where it says God sent sinful angels to Tartaurus.

And Hades is the term in Greek Mythology where ALL people go when they die... This word occurs ten times in the NT in various genres in various parables and metaphors and only Luke 16 describes it as a place of torture.
 
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