For Mom: Water into Wine (John 2: 1-11)

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Semitic people believed numbers had special power. The author of the Gospel ofJohn seemed to use the power of 7 in his Gospel so maybe chose 7 signs in his carefully crafted argument for believing in Jesus and for believing what he believed. Of the many signs he mentions, this sign was one of the top 7.

Mystic, please clarify what is probably meant by the word, "sign".

The ministry of Jesus probably lasted about 3 years though it might have been shorter or longer. There would have been many stories from that ministry with some close to factual and many probably expanded a bit. Each Gospel writer chose stories that circulated in their community or were based on old stories, Jewish or not, that served their purposes for writing the gospels. I do not believe any of the writers intended to create a biography or history in our sense of those words. Their culture readily used metaphors to communicate their ideas. Whether this event really happened or not is not important. What is important is why it is in the story. That it was a wedding links to all of the wedding and marriage references in the Hebrew scriptures including the prophets and psalms. God was frequently portrayed as a husband to the Jewish nation whether it is Israel or the Hebrews in the desert or Judah. The capacity of Jesus to take responsibility for the wine hints as his capacity to act on behalf of his Father. John creates a very thin line between God and Jesus. Just as the Jewish people were often unfaithful brides to God, they will be an unfaithful bride for Jesus as they call for his crucifixion.
 
I am intrigued by Jesus saying, "My hour has not yet come."(v.4)

Did he mean he was not yet ready to demonstrate his true nature and do something about the wine situation?

Or is this foreshadowing about his crucifixion? Similar language is used elsewhere in the gospels.
 
The more I learned about this gospel, the more I disliked it. It is an agenda driven gospel and parts of that agenda are offensive to me. It bothers me as it reduces the humanity of Jesus in so many ways as well as its anger at the Jewish people who kicked his community out of the synagogue. I suspect many people like it for making Jesus the man more god-like, easier to trust or believe has the power to provide whatever they need.

I use this gospel to consider the Cosmic Christ, the Logos that might have contributed to the founding of the older great religions/philosophies and can still be present in our lives.
 
This gospel seems to emphasize the importance of right belief more than the others. It makes several exclusionary claims for Jesus and uses the language of being born again.
 
I've been reading that Mary and John were Essenes. So isn't it odd that there was wine at the wedding or that John chose this as a miracle?
My understanding is that the Essenes didnt drink and were celebate. Is that right?
 
Also water is often symbolized as salvation and eternal life...even John refers to Jesus as Living Watee in John 7:37-39.
Throughout the Bible slow moving water is symbolized as salvation and fast moving water as difficulties.
I wonder why this water would change to wine though...just thinking out loud.
 
Great Sermon Title on John 2:1-11: "WHEN JESUS SAYS "NO!" TO WOMEN"
See if you can anticipate my application of these 3 examples.

(1) Mary's Implied Request for Help from Jesus: "They have no wine (2:3)."
Jesus' Rebuff: "Woman, what concern is that to you and me? My hour is not yet come (2:4)."
Mary's Response to Jesus' No: "His mother said to the servants: "Do whatever He tells you (2:5)."

(2) A Syrian Woman's Request for Healing: "Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David! My daughter is tormented by a demon (Matthew 15:23)!"
Jesus' Initial Rebuff: "But He did not answer her at all; and His disciples... urged Him saying, "Send her away!" He answered, "I was sent only the lost sheep [f the house of Israel (15:23-24)!""
Her First Response to Jesus' No!" "But she came and knelt before Him, saying, "Lord, help me (15:25)!"
Jesus' Insulting No: "It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs (15:26)."
Her Witty Humble Response to Jesus' 2nd No: "Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table (14:27)."

(3) A Parable: A Widow's Repeated Request to an Unjust Judge: "In a certain city there was a widow who kept coming to him, saying,"Give me justice against my adversary (Luke 18:3)!"
The Judge's Repeated Nos: "For a while he refused."
The Widow's Response to His Nos: "But later he said to himself: "Though I have no fear of God and no respect for anyone, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will grant her justice, so that she will not wear me out by her continually coming (18:4-5)."
 
Waterfall said:
I've been reading that Mary and John were Essenes.
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That is conjecture, though. And which Mary and John are you referring to? Mary the mother, who is present here, has never presented as anything other than a mainstream Jew of her day. Mary Magdalene isn't in the story yet. And the only John at this stage is John the Baptist, who may well have been Essene but is not involved in this story. And I have never heard that the author of John, if that's who you mean, was Essene, just a Jewish Christian whose community had a falling out with the Jewish mainstream. I don't believe we have hard, clearly documented evidence for anyone in the Gospels actually being Essene, just speculation based on evidence like behaviour and beliefs.
 
What in real life that some folk take as iconic (a sign) is nothing but abstract conjecture given that we have lost connections with the deep past as semite (Xi mighty item of loss). Somewhere there is a populace searching to know nothing ... thus the iconic nuns that compose end nun and midst nuns to demonstrate what it is to have noos of nothing. When irrationality bites you know you've had it ... and then it goes to allow recovery from the dun Kin!

When immersed in word as an ideal ... you may find it sheer chaos because of the array ... it is a significant spread if you dig into the origins of Anglo-Saxon communication derived from in di genus sources ... this must be writ somewhere ... and thus the (w)rot of rejection of literature as laid out as a flat thought ... somewhat iterated as unknown?

What do we know for sure ... in the abstract it appears nebulous as a nemeses! That's how it comes down to those right in to 'ide ... the primal activity of imagining how to get out of nothing ... and thus things flew ... in short I admit that mortals like me do not know unless they have more extensive sectors fore thought? This may fit like a Tae ... thus đa toddlers ... odd wee things ... developing visions! Even dark and mysterious, differentiated signs ... by fur cations ... and even ptions!

What sa "pt"? Sometime a deep ole thing ... sophisticated ... tacketh ... and we cut across the wind ... some say a gybe!
 
@Mystic
The point at which Jesus pivots in John 2 is interesting. Mary seems to ignore her son's objections and simply instructs the servants to do whatever Jesus asks.
 
Mystic said:
(1) Mary's Implied Request for Help from Jesus: "They have no wine (2:3)."
Jesus' Rebuff: "Woman, what concern is that to you and me? My hour is not yet come (2:4)."
Mary's Response to Jesus' No: "His mother said to the servants: "Do whatever He tells you (2:5)."
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The role of Mary here in prompting Jesus is interesting esp. since, as you point out, we see this pattern again and again. A woman asks something, Jesus turns her down but is then prompted to action. In this case, of course, it is his mother so there's probably good reason for him to take her seriously given that relationship. It also, I think, puts a different spin on it. Sophia was often portrayed as a woman so is using female characters this way a literary device for bringing Wisdom into Jesus decisions?
 
Twas pooky ... stillis when folk settle down ... explains chaotic disorder ... as the inductees can get themselves straightened out ... with a Xi ...

Anarchy is the route to destroy governing to such orders ... for those anti federalism. hey believe they have de semi nated gods ... unadhered sentient? It may be extensive and a stress ...
 
Mendalla said:
The role of Mary here in prompting Jesus is interesting esp. since, as you point out, we see this pattern again and again. A woman asks something, Jesus turns her down but is then prompted to action. In this case, of course, it is his mother so there's probably good reason for him to take her seriously given that relationship. It also, I think, puts a different spin on it. Sophia was often portrayed as a woman so is using female characters this way a literary device for bringing Wisdom into Jesus decisions?
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The other two stories mentioned by @Mystic have the woman more actively persisting with her request. But it's a pattern worth noting.
 
BetteTheRed said:
But don't many of us have deep personal memories of our wedding(s)? I was no Bridezilla, did most of it myself, catering, etc., and I didn't wear traditional garb (an off white silk dress and a lovely hat and shoes), but I will never forget that day and the feelings. I was all of 25...silly child.
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Oh yes I certainly have those deep personal memories. I was all of 21 LoL

How would it have been for the couple in the era of arranged marriages, I wonder?
 
paradox3 said:
How would it have been for the couple in the era of arranged marriages, I wonder?
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There's no "era of arranged marriages" that is somehow in the past. Many cultures still have the practice, and we have them happening right here in Canada in some immigrant communities. I do not know anyone personally who is one, else I would ask how it is for the couple.
 
Mendalla said:
There's no "era of arranged marriages" that is somehow in the past. Many cultures still have the practice, and we have them happening right here in Canada in some immigrant communities. I do not know anyone personally who is one, else I would ask how it is for the couple.
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Oh yes I know but I was thinking specifically of the biblical era. Sorry if my wording was a little sloppy.

Actually I do know of one arranged marriage. A young man I worked with years ago had his family find him a bride in his home country. From what I could tell he was quite smitten with her.

It was his choice to go this route and I am not even sure if he met her before the wedding. He probably did.
 
paradox3 said:
Actually I do know of one arranged marriage. A young man I worked with years ago had his family find him a bride in his home country. From what I could tell he was quite smitten with her.
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I think one of Dad's co-workers did that, too. This would have been in, like, the eighties or first half of the nineties since Dad retired after Mom died.
 
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