For Mom: Water into Wine (John 2: 1-11)

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paradox3

paradox3

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Bible Gateway passage: John 2:1-11 - New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition

As John 2 opens, Jesus has already been a busy guy. He has encountered John the Baptist and has called his first few disciples.

He has been recognized as the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world; the one Moses and the prophets wrote about; the son of God and the King of Israel.

Is the pressure on? It's not hard to imagine Jesus hoping for a little down time as he heads with his associates to the wedding in Cana.

We don't know who is getting married. His mother is there and possibly his brothers who get a mentiion in v.12. Mary is never referred to by name and nothing is said about Joseph.

For some reason the wine runs out at this wedding and Mary is most distressed. She turns to Jesus who is reluctant to get involved. The matter of the wine is not his concern or hers, he explains. Rather cryptically he says, "My hour has not yet come."

But then, as Johnny Cash sang, He turned the water into wine!

Jesus asks the servants to fill with water 6 large jars which are standing by empty. The stone jars normally hold the water used for purification rituals. When the jugs have been filled to the top, Jesus asks the servants to draw some out and give it to the person in charge of the banquet.

WOW! The water has turned into fine wine. And the finest wine has been saved for last.

Jesus did this as one of his one of his miraculous signs, the gospel writer tells us.

Comments? Reactions?
 
Reflecting on this passage, I have been picturing the scene in my mind. I see Jesus with his family and disciples in the midst of much celebration. I wonder why the wine ran out.

Unexpected guests? Poor planning? A little too much celebration?

Maybe because I am a mom myself, I like the idea of Mary giving Jesus a little push to start fulfilling his destiny. Living up to his potential if you will.

Then of course we have the miracle to consider. And the symbolism which might be found in this passage.
 
Hmmm. Who believes Jesus actually transformed large stone jars of water into wine?

My mind is always searching for a natural explanation no matter how farfetched it might seem. At this wedding where the wine ran out early could everyone involved have been a little tipsy?

Did Jesus observe the servants filling the jars as he instructed? Did he follow them to the river or the well? (The location of Cana is disputed.)

Could it be the servants were taking advantage and had hidden away the finest of the wine?

John wanted to persuade us Jesus had miraculous powers, that seems clear. Did he also want the reader to see symbolism concerning the Old and New Covenants? Is the whole story an allegory?
 
Remember turning the water into a sapient fluid is just one step in the process ... some demand more ... and the juws of some cacti ... make tequila ... powerful conversion of worms ...

Imagine the debate given that you can please some of the people, all times; other folks not at all and all of the people infrequently ...

Often stated differently to cause divine rifts ... base 've competition leading to excesses ... many people are-yam bitches about this ... the race to win against the ghosts! Dimly enlightened ... onyx 'ded? Resembles dark glass used for points ...

Remember dissociation is prerequisite for some functions ... thus OCD! One must have a set TU!
 
What I find interesting is the last sentence (verse 11), "Jesus did this, the first of his signs, in Cana of Galilee and revealed his glory, and his disciples believed in him." It's rather interesting that the "first of his signs" occurs at a private event, not a more public location. While certainly some key people in his life like Mary his mother and the disciples were witnesses, otherwise it would just have been the wedding guests. Maybe rather than putting on a public show, the idea was to get the guests to be "seeds" spreading the story wider in Cana and environs.

paradox3 said:
Did he also want the reader to see symbolism concerning the Old and New Covenants? Is the whole story an allegory?
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That's a possibility. The old covenant had grown weak so he was going to renew it as he turned water into wine.

I know when I was studying classics and ancient history, I learned Greek and Roman wines were basically concentrates that they watered down. If you want a wilder party, add less water. Wonder if a practice like that plays in here. I have never looked into what Middle Eastern cultures did with their wine.

In the end, I think the symbolism and the element of it being his "first sign" is maybe more important than the how and why. The story is portrayed as a significant step in his ministry and a sign of his spiritual status and power.

Back to Dr. David Brakke's lecture that I talked about in the other thread, he talks about John possibly having access to a "book of signs", a lost text that recorded Jesus' actions as a series of "signs" of his place as the Son of God. If so, that's where the "First of his signs" bit came from and why John does repeat that formula (this was the xx of his signs) at other places. He points that it might also explain the ending of chapter 20, which was the original ending before 21 was added if you go with that hypothesis. "Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples that are not written in this book. But these are written so that you may continue[e] to believe that Jesus is the Messiah,[f] the Son of God, and that through believing you may have life in his name," really does sound like it could be the ending of such a book.
 
Mendalla said:
What I find interesting is the last sentence (verse 11), "Jesus did this, the first of his signs, in Cana of Galilee and revealed his glory, and his disciples believed in him." It's rather interesting that the "first of his signs" occurs at a private event, not a more public location. While certainly some key people in his life like Mary his mother and the disciples were witnesses, otherwise it would just have been the wedding guests. Maybe rather than putting on a public show, the idea was to get the guests to be "seeds" spreading the story wider in Cana and environs.


That's a possibility. The old covenant had grown weak so he was going to renew it as he turned water into wine.

I know when I was studying classics and ancient history, I learned Greek and Roman wines were basically concentrates that they watered down. If you want a wilder party, add less water. Wonder if a practice like that plays in here. I have never looked into what Middle Eastern cultures did with their wine.

In the end, I think the symbolism and the element of it being his "first sign" is maybe more important than the how and why. The story is portrayed as a significant step in his ministry and a sign of his spiritual status and power.

Back to Dr. David Brakke's lecture that I talked about in the other thread, he talks about John possibly having access to a "book of signs", a lost text that recorded Jesus' actions as a series of "signs" of his place as the Son of God. If so, that's where the "First of his signs" bit came from and why John does repeat that formula (this was the xx of his signs) at other places. He points that it might also explain the ending of chapter 20, which was the original ending before 21 was added if you go with that hypothesis. "Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples that are not written in this book. But these are written so that you may continue[e] to believe that Jesus is the Messiah,[f] the Son of God, and that through believing you may have life in his name," really does sound like it could be the ending of such a book.
Click to expand...

I once had a book of symbols that covered a lot of language traditions ... there were people that said it was an evil book like the field of studies of Dan Brown ... symbolism ... sometimes scary as those women screaming off Greek Shores ... Sublines/limes ...

Mind opening and bewitching as endured beatings in the night ... night Mariah's ... obsequious binds (sometimes unctuous)? Therein the rube ... to keep the commoners in chaos ... impose irrationality!
 
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@Mendalla
Yes v.11 is interesting. In John 1, Jesus called Simon (whom he names Cephas/ Peter), Andrew, Philip and Nathanael.

Andrew exclaims they have found the Messiah.
Philip says they have found the one Moses and the prophets wrote about.
Nathanael acknowledges Jesus as the Son of God and King of Israel.

So it would seem these three disciples already understood a lot about Jesus and his nature. But now they believe in him???

Perhaps in this context "believing in" means '"trusting in." Or even making a commitment?

The other possibility might be that additional disciples have been called in the last two days. The wedding was on the third day according to the narrative..
 
THE INSPIRATION FOR THE CHANGING OF THE WATER INTO WINE

My friend Ken and I kinda highjacked our Israel tour by persuading our guide to spend less time in Nazareth, so we could tour Sepphoirs, a 3-mile walk away.
Most of Nazareth stems from the Medieval era, but Sepphoris consists of a large city in ruins traceable close to Jesus' day. Jesus and Joseph probably sold their carpentry (woodworking) goods in the impressive market area of Sepphoris, a city of 25,000 in Jesus' day, in contrast to Nazareth's 300-400 residents.
As you walk up the ancient stones of the market area hill, viewing the lovely murals of the ancient synagogue on your left and the long Roman aqueduct on your right, you ascend to the ruins of a Roman villa, with several murals devoted to the cult of Dionysus (dated 1st-3rd century AD). This cult taught that once a year Dionysus changed water into wine. Jesus was no doubt inspired by this story to replicate this miracle at the wedding feast at Cana. We later drove but the traditional site where this wedding feast supposedly occurred.

One of the mosaics on the villa floor is the most impressive in all of Israel and has been dubbed "the Mona Lisa of the Galilee." I contemplated the thought that I may be gazing at the face of a beautiful woman, who looked on the face of Jesus, though this mosaic can be dated from the first to third century AD.

I will have more to say about John 2:1-12 in a future post.
 
Mystic said:
This cult taught that once a year Dionysus changed water into wine. Jesus was no doubt inspired by this story to replicate this miracle at the wedding feast at Cana.
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Or the writer(s) of the Gospel were inspired by the Dionysiac myth to create a similar story. Repurposing myths for new purposes was a time-honoured tradition in the classical world. Doesn't invalidate the story, but does mean we need to look at its meaning from a literary standpoint rather than an historical one.
 
It's fascinating to learn of Dionysus and his wine related miracles.

Maybe Jesus was inspired to perform the same miracle for his mom at the wedding as @Mystic suggests.

It seems more likely to me that the gospel writer borrowed the story and ascribed one of the wine-related miracles to Jesus.
 
paradox3 said:
It's fascinating to learn of Dionysus and his wine related miracles.
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Well, he was the god of wine after all, so wine-related miracles were definitely in his bailiwick. (need a drunken smiley)

There's some interesting myths around Dionysios and his followers.
 
Will we see other parallels between the signs of Jesus in John's Gospel and Greek mythology?

I am not even sure how many of the signs have parallels in the synoptic gospels. Turning water into wine at Cana is unique to John in the New Testament.
 
paradox3 said:
Turning water into wine at Cana is unique to John in the New Testament.
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Need to go through an confirm what the signs are again. The uniqueness of this to John is another reason that, whether it is historical or not, it seems that this story was of particular interest to the author of John.
 
The other signs are stories of healing (3), walking on water, feeding the 5000 and raising Lazarus from the dead. I am not sure how closely these narratives parallel the synoptics.

Lots of reading for us @Mendalla

Anyone think it is a coincidence there were 7 days of creation in Genesis and 7 signs in John's Gospel?
 
Was Dionysios a fungi being he took part on the dark fete of grape consumption and conversion?

May be a fete noir, or an activity that would set one on their backside with the kick ... considering what paegaen Christians didn't know abot addictions ... with a head ache some learned, some didn't and ploughed on into an unknowing state ... what we inherited from those telling us learning was a corruption of the way we were ...
 
THE PRESENCE OF JESUS' BROTHERS WITH JESUS AT CANA (2:12)

(1) Early Gospel tradition stresses the presence of Jesus' brothers in the first stages of Jesus' public ministry. (a) The early 2nd century Gospel of Hebrews claims it was Jesus' mother and brothers' idea to get baptized by John (quoted by Jerome, Against Pelagius 3:2):

"The mother of of the Lord and His brothers said to Him: "John the Baptist baptizes for the forgiveness of sins. Let's go and be baptized by Him." But He said to them, "In what way have I sinned that I should go and be baptized by him? Unless, perhaps, what I have just said is a sin of ignorance."

(b) Jesus' mother and brothers are still present with Him at the wedding feast and then travel with Him to Capernaum (John 2:12).

(2) As yet, Jesus has made no messianic claims and has performed no healing miracles. But after He does, His skeptical brothers reject these reports and even try to interfere with His ministry:
(a) His skeptical brothers try to goad Jesus into performing public miracles, presumably so they might get to witness this themselves:
"For not even His own brothers believed in Him (John 7:6)."

(b) Then they twice actually try to interfere with His ministry:
(i) "When His family heard it, they went out to restrain Him; for they were saying, "He has gone out of His mind (Mark 3:21)."
(ii) "Then His mother and brothers came; and standing outside, they sent to Him, and called Him (Mark 3:31)."
Instead of immediately honoring their request, Jesus angrily (?) identifies His followers inside as His true family: "Here are my mother and brothers!"

(c) Thus, in Nazareth Jesus complains that His own family shows Him no respect:
"A prophet is not without honor, except in his hometown, AND AMONG HIS OWN KIN AND IN HIS OWN HOUSE (Mark 6:4)."

(3) So when did Jesus' brothers finally embrace His messianic ministry? The scholarly consensus is that Jesus' private resurrection appearance to James (1 Corinthians 15:7) changed the brothers' minds and persuaded them to participate in the long prayer vigil in the lead-up to the outpouring of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost (Acts 1:14). But I think James' conversion had already occurred by the Last Supper.
(a) I based this claim on my identification of James as "the disciple whom Jesus loved," a title which first appears in John at the Last Supper.
(b) Also, James is a central figure at the Last Supper in the Gospel of Hebrews.
 
We are all getting ahead of ourselves in the story. Any other thoughts about the wedding at Cana and the first sign done by Jesus?
 
This might be mean, but this song is a take by Gordon Light and the Common Cup Company on speculation about the effects of Cana Wine. It is an earworm for me but an enjoyable earworm.
 
paradox3 said:
Any other thoughts about the wedding at Cana and the first sign done by Jesus?
Click to expand...
Did we touch why a wedding would be the setting? I am intrigued by the choice of setting beyond the comments earlier about why a "sign" would happen at a private event. In ancient times, weddings were often about alliances between families rather than romance. And of course, the bride-groom metaphor was used for the relationship between the church and Jesus in other places. So perhaps the explanation is that a wedding made perfect sense for the transformation that is central to the story.
 
But don't many of us have deep personal memories of our wedding(s)? I was no Bridezilla, did most of it myself, catering, etc., and I didn't wear traditional garb (an off white silk dress and a lovely hat and shoes), but I will never forget that day and the feelings. I was all of 25...silly child.
 
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