How was church today?

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I led my first service at Brookdale Sunday. There were between 420 and 25 people that almost filled the little church from ages of babies to older than me. The small choir was excellent and the service was well received. Then it was off to Mont Tremblant with no Wifi or cell phone coverage. Rode to the discovery centre this morning to check internet stuff. Still cell no phone
 
jimkenney...I would love to have been in your congregation. I sense that you present thoughtful, easy to listen to messages!

On another note, when I led worship on Sunday, our minister was in the congregation, and she said nothing to me afterwards. She spent a lot of time visiting with everyone else. She typically picks a few people to make a fuss over...especially a couple of people who don't attend our church anymore but she would like to encourage them. She doesn't talk much to my sister either. We both volunteer, attend regularly, donate regularly, sing in the choir, participate in a number of ways. When I lead worship, many people comment on how meaningful it was. So, when our minister avoids contact with me afterwards, and just sends a later email asking me to do certain things in my role as voluntary secretary, I wonder why? If I were a minister, I would comment...even if it was a disagreement about a point. I would at least acknowledge that I had heard the message.

Just unloading a little concern. I am prepared to think: oh, that's just her way, and move on. But sometimes we expect a little more kindness from our ministers.
 
Nancy said:
Just unloading a little concern. I am prepared to think: oh, that's just her way, and move on. But sometimes we expect a little more kindness from our ministers.
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And so you should, Nancy. There's nothing that discourages regular volunteerism more than feeling taken for granted. Your minister appears to me to be a bit of a fool.
 
Hint: you don't have to say anything disrespectful, but disrespectful thoughts are always allowed (although personally they seem to cause a certain lack of control over eyebrows).
 
Nancy said:
jimkenney...I would love to have been in your congregation. I sense that you present thoughtful, easy to listen to messages!

On another note, when I led worship on Sunday, our minister was in the congregation, and she said nothing to me afterwards. She spent a lot of time visiting with everyone else. She typically picks a few people to make a fuss over...especially a couple of people who don't attend our church anymore but she would like to encourage them. She doesn't talk much to my sister either. We both volunteer, attend regularly, donate regularly, sing in the choir, participate in a number of ways. When I lead worship, many people comment on how meaningful it was. So, when our minister avoids contact with me afterwards, and just sends a later email asking me to do certain things in my role as voluntary secretary, I wonder why? If I were a minister, I would comment...even if it was a disagreement about a point. I would at least acknowledge that I had heard the message.

Just unloading a little concern. I am prepared to think: oh, that's just her way, and move on. But sometimes we expect a little more kindness from our ministers.
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I wonder if she feels a bit threatened by you. I made a point of thanking volunteers and commending the leadership of members of the congregation, especially what I saw them doing as well. I also do this for other ministers whose services I attend. It is important to let others know what we appreciate about their leadership. A personal frustration is being thanked for a good message without knowing what it was about the message that was appreciated.

I try to make my comments as specific as I can.

A thought just struck me. Is she close to a clique that might feel threatened by your leadership?

Something you might try the next time you preach is to take time to thank some of the people who have supported or encouraged your leadership. For example, I thank Margaret whose insights in our study group helped me see today's reading in a new way. Sometimes people need other people to model how to thank or praise others.
 
Nancy said:
jimkenney...I would love to have been in your congregation. I sense that you present thoughtful, easy to listen to messages!

On another note, when I led worship on Sunday, our minister was in the congregation, and she said nothing to me afterwards. She spent a lot of time visiting with everyone else. She typically picks a few people to make a fuss over...especially a couple of people who don't attend our church anymore but she would like to encourage them. She doesn't talk much to my sister either. We both volunteer, attend regularly, donate regularly, sing in the choir, participate in a number of ways. When I lead worship, many people comment on how meaningful it was. So, when our minister avoids contact with me afterwards, and just sends a later email asking me to do certain things in my role as voluntary secretary, I wonder why? If I were a minister, I would comment...even if it was a disagreement about a point. I would at least acknowledge that I had heard the message.

Just unloading a little concern. I am prepared to think: oh, that's just her way, and move on. But sometimes we expect a little more kindness from our ministers.
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You could just walk up to her and ask her what she thought about the sermon?
 
And always recall that thoughts vary and scatter like the Hebrew diaspora! The Hebrew at one time were considered the wee black peoples wandering across the medium ... hopefully a dry Zoan ... just solid enough to prevent sinking in the SANS!
 
Last evening, we watched the online service by Deep River Community Church for today. Alistair and Margaret, lay leaders in the congregation, provided a very good service and Alistair's message was illuminating and on point. He reaffirmed to importance of providing people with what they need, not what we want to offer, with Jesus being the recipient.
 
Imagine feeding the illuminating aspect of the dimension we reside within ... albeit unconscious of a great deal!

Is there something to be learned given the obstinacy of the wile?
 
jimkenney12 said:
Last evening, we watched the online service by Deep River Community Church for today. Alistair and Margaret, lay leaders in the congregation, provided a very good service and Alistair's message was illuminating and on point. He reaffirmed to importance of providing people with what they need, not what we want to offer, with Jesus being the recipient.
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Oh that sounds interesting...did he suggest how to figure out what someone would need?
 
Nice service this a.m. I was the last minute reader, which happens often-ish... Luke 11:1-13, the Prayer of Jesus. Nice reflection to go with, lovely little fella got baptized, last service for the Rev before she goes on holiday.
 
Waterfall said:
Oh that sounds interesting...did he suggest how to figure out what someone would need?
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Not really. In the story of Mary and Martha, Jesus has been travelling and he is close to Jerusalem where he knows he is going to die. He needed a good friend to talk with more than a fancy meal. Martha was focused on doing what she found meaningful while Mary was responding to how Jesus was feeling.

The first step in knowing what a person needs is to pay attention to them and parking what you habitually do in that kind of circumstance for at least a moment. Next would normally be to ask.
 
I had an interesting chat with a couple of people after church yesterday. In the month of July, our minister takes holidays and we have a variety of worship leaders. It is always a interesting and uplifting to hear these different people. But, in our chat afterwards, three different people commented that they are finding our regular minister a little boring these days. We love our community of worshippers, but at what point does one seek a new church where one finds more offered in terms of learning and spiritual connection? Or, does one just stop attending church?
 
Whoever is responsible for personnel in the church needs to have a conversation with the minister. The conversation should start with a question like, "How are you doing? How are you feeling?". They need to find out where the minister is at personally. The conversation needs to eventually include the message that there is concern that their preaching is lacking diversity in content or similar concerns. The conversation should include what the minister wants to do in response and what the minister needs. There could be a decision to take time for the minister and the committee involved to reflect on and consider the information that has been shared and to meet again.

The well being of the congregation depends on fair, compassionate, and firm treatment of the minister, and the minister behaving responsibly and compassionately as well. The message from the committee needs to be heard as something like. "We want your ministry to be successful and this is what seems to be lacking right now."

The content of those discussions will point to the most responsible actions.
 
IMGINE QUESTIONING A MINISTER OF THE FABRIC AND VIRTUE IN AN INSTITUTION OF THIS SORT ... UNTHINKABLE IN SOME DIMENSIONS!

MAKES BE WAIL AND SCREAM IN HUMOUR! i WAS TAUGHT THAT SUCH PROCESS WAS VORBODEN!
 
Very good suggestion. Our ministry and personnel committee is quite inactive, and generally responds to what the minister determines to be important. I realize our church has many good points, but the actual leadership is not one of them. We pretty well let our minister do whatever she wants without question. I questioned one thing at a recent Board meeting and was politely disagreed with. It was about baptizing individuals who have no connection with our church but do have a connection with our minister. My suggestion was to include other members of the Board or the church at the meeting so that individuals see us as a church community, and it is not just about the minister. She performs many, many weddings that have no connection with our church. (She is not ordained, but has special permission to perform weddings based on the fact that she is our minister). She has a following that is quite outside of our church, and this could be considered a good thing, if it translated into a more vibrant church community. Anyway...sorry for venting. I'm just trying to figure out my options at the moment.
 
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I do not know if you have any good options. This fits in with your comments about not getting any affirmations from her.

The hard but most responsible option is to have your own conversation with her. A gentle way to initiate the conversation could be something like:

I used to find your preaching interesting and challenging. Lately it seems to lack....... How are you?

As she is not ordained and is doing baptisms and marriages with a special license, she meet feel vulnerable and threatened by you as a lay person with leadership gifts. This might be an opportunity for her to see you as a source of support for her ministry.

The risk is that her sense of you as a threat might prompt her to not hear or see you as a support source and the conversation could easily go sidewise in many ways. I am not sure I would have the courage needed.

I wish you well in whatever you choose to do.

An ongoing source of sadness for me is being aware of a minister's seeing their ministry as being about them first, making it difficult to encourage them to put the needs of the congregation first and lay leaders who are unwiiling or unable to provide needed supervision of their minister, all leading to ministry that is Less than it could be and often leading to division in the congregation .
 
Again...your comments are wise, considerate and understanding. I don't have the courage to start a conversation with her. I once requested a special meeting to discuss something church-related that I was dealing with, and she said she didn't have time. Sadly, if I had been a different person, she would have made the time. Honest...I'm not hard to get along with, although from her reactions to me, you might think that I am. And maybe she suits our church more than I do, and that is the real problem. Like I said, I'm trying to figure it all out...what I can live with, and what I can't. And what I can do about any sores that are festering.
 
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