Euthanasia in Canada, Supreme Court Ruled this Morning

[revjohn]

PWD rights groups are worried. Show them the respect of being worried along with them.

It is not disrespectful to disagree.

I'm done. This place is something else. Progressive social justice? Not from my point of view. It's never been supportive for me, I don't know what I'm doing here. See you guys later.

You are trying to persuade others to adopt your point of view. You aren't successful at doing that. That isn't us being unsupportive it is us not being convinced.

To be completely honest I have seen very little evidence that anyone here is routinely successful in convincing others to change perspectives,

Most of us are here for discussion, I'm sure all of us would feel great if we managed to sway others to our point of view. We might find ourselves to be more persuasive in face to face encounters where all of our communication skills come into play.

Here in text based communication all of us are bringing less than 20% of our communication skills to bear (no wonder we fail more than we succeed) that isn't the failure of others so much as it is the limits all of us have to contend with.

I wish you luck wherever you choose to go.

 

[chansen]

I'm sure they will be. Why not inquire?

*head asplodes*

 

[blackbelt1961]

Interesting ideas to think over, but...Who appointed you our professor of morality to give pop quizzes?

for Viod, morality is just a simply social construct

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

*head asplodes*

@Waterfall there's a webinar and panel discussion open the the public April 18 in Ontario.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/148...-supreme-court-s-decision-on-assisted-suicide

I hope health care professionals will keep in mind not just palliative and end of life care concerns but in light of this new ruling what they can do to stop unnecessary suicides and help people live better with their impairments.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

It is not disrespectful to disagree.
People disagree because they don't understand...it's not about them just a bunch of ranting people with disabilities, what the hell is their problem. That's it. No compassion for the fears and the illegalities of this ruling.



You are trying to persuade others to adopt your point of view. You aren't successful at doing that. That isn't us being unsupportive it is us not being convinced.

To be completely honest I have seen very little evidence that anyone here is routinely successful in convincing others to change perspectives,

Most of us are here for discussion, I'm sure all of us would feel great if we managed to sway others to our point of view. We might find ourselves to be more persuasive in face to face encounters where all of our communication skills come into play.

Here in text based communication all of us are bringing less than 20% of our communication skills to bear (no wonder we fail more than we succeed) that isn't the failure of others so much as it is the limits all of us have to contend with.

I wish you luck wherever you choose to go.

 

[chansen]

What John said.

Look, Kimmio. Even Steven Fletcher, MP, who tabled an assisted suicide bill, could be said to have a disability. He clearly does not agree with you. Mr. Fletcher is a quadriplegic.

You seem to think that your position is the position of all disabled people. I don't think you even stand with a majority of disabled people. You've not convinced me of that, or that you are correct in your thoughts. Mostly, I just think that, if it comes to this for me or my loved ones, you don't get a say. I'm concerned this right doesn't get abused, but your irrational and emotional style of argument isn't winning anyone over to your way of thinking. It never has.

 

[Jaebius]

Jae, what do you hope to accomplish by posting these pictures and suggestions?

Already answered to @RitaTG up thread.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

It is not disrespectful to disagree.



You are trying to persuade others to adopt your point of view. You aren't successful at doing that. That isn't us being unsupportive it is us not being convinced.

To be completely honest I have seen very little evidence that anyone here is routinely successful in convincing others to change perspectives,

Most of us are here for discussion, I'm sure all of us would feel great if we managed to sway others to our point of view. We might find ourselves to be more persuasive in face to face encounters where all of our communication skills come into play.

Here in text based communication all of us are bringing less than 20% of our communication skills to bear (no wonder we fail more than we succeed) that isn't the failure of others so much as it is the limits all of us have to contend with.

I wish you luck wherever you choose to go.

People don't get it. Don't care about the concerns of a bunch of raving adults with disabilities "out of our gourdes". Thousands of us scared by this wording. Disability is unconstitutionally included. Nobody gets it. Nobody cares. Lots of people are used to having or feeling like they have ownership over people with disabilities. The social and rights model gives us a voice. Throwing back to the antiquated medical model definition in this ruling stifles that voice. You don't get it. If there was a Disability Rights Commission - as stipulated by the UN - that would not have happened. Disability would not be included as a reason to die. People are going to die from this, unjustly.

 

[Jaebius]

--- Thousands of us scared by this wording --- People are going to die from this, unjustly.

Cousin - do you have any evidence that this is going to take place - or are you only expressing fear. I feel it's the latter.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

What John said.

Look, Kimmio. Even Steven Fletcher, MP, who tabled an assisted suicide bill, could be said to have a disability. He clearly does not agree with you. Mr. Fletcher is a quadriplegic.

You seem to think that your position is the position of all disabled people. I don't think you even stand with a majority of disabled people. You've not convinced me of that, or that you are correct in your thoughts. Mostly, I just think that, if it comes to this for me or my loved ones, you don't get a say. I'm concerned this right doesn't get abused, but your irrational and emotional style of argument isn't winning anyone over to your way of thinking. It never has.

Maybe he like others is more concerned about his political career than disability rights. Just because he has a disability is no guarantee that he cares. He puts whatever spin on issues is good for his career. That's what politicians do - disability or not.

http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/story.html?id=10793102

 

[RitaTG]

...and so the sky continues to fall.....

 

[chansen]

Yes, lash out at the quadriplegic MP for caring more about his career than identifying with a demographic he is actually himself a part of. And point out that someone disagrees with him. Because, all of that is convincing.

You aren't helping you.

 

[Jaebius]

Maybe he like others is more concerned about his political career than disability rights. Just because he has a disability is no guarantee that he cares. He puts whatever spin on issues is good for his career. That's what politicians do - disability or not.

http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/story.html?id=10793102

Maybe he's against disability rights too. You know - if he's not a member of any disability rights groups that is.

 

[Seeler]

You may be comfortable having a psychiatrist make decisions for you when it comes to your spiritual life Rev. John (actually that surprises me). However - I and thousands of others - would not be. Thus - the patient needs a choice on exactly who is going on such an important panel - and should be able to include a religious leader from their own faith group.

Jae, remembering that all this is at the request of the patient, wouldn't it be logical to assume that the patient has already requested the advice, comfort, reassurance, guidance, etc. of their spiritual advisor. My spiritual life is between me and God -- but I also have already begun to talk over life and death matters with a trusted retired minister. I would seek his guidance long before I presented my request to my primary care physician. I would continue to rely on him while the process of evaluation by the panel goes on. I would not expect him to be on the panel.

Neither would I expect my next-of-kin to be present. Again I would have discussed the matter with him (and other members of my family). I would want them to understand that this was my decision. I would also want to have their input into my final decision. I would not expect them to sit on a panel making medical decisions. I am also aware that many people do not have a next-of-kin to consult, or may actually be more atuned to a close friend than to a distant father that they haven't seen or spoken to for five years.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Cousin - do you have any evidence that this is going to take place - or are you only expressing fear. I feel it's the latter.

Yes, lash out at the quadriplegic MP for caring more about his career than identifying with a demographic he is actually himself a part of. And point out that someone disagrees with him. Because, all of that is convincing.

You aren't helping you.

Right because he's a quadriplegic he can't be a shrewd politician looking out for where to score political points. Because he's a quadriplegic disability rights must be his first order of business. A person can be quadriplegic and still not care.

Just like black people only care about race issues and women only care about feminism. Right.

 

[Waterfall]

People are going to die from this, unjustly.

Is there any evidence to back this up? Such as places where assistance to die is legal?

 

[Jaebius]

Right because he's a quadriplegic he can't be a shrewd politician looking out for where to score political points. Because he's a quadriplegic disability rights must be his first order of business. A person can be quadriplegic and still not care.

Just like black people only care about race issues and women only care about feminism. Right.

I was referring to what I perceive is your fear of doctors hunting down and killing people with disabilities.

 

[Seeler]

There might (I say "might" because I do not know) be cultures in which accepted means of suicide are outside of what is possible via conventional Canadian medical practices. If that is the case - should we allow individuals from such cultures to request one of those traditional, unconventional means? I would say yes. Your take?

In my historic novel I have an elderly Inuit woman decide to walk away from her family encampment at a time of famine, and on another occasion a family deciding at his request to leave behind a man with a broken leg when he would slow down the family as they travel to their winter hunting grounds. In neither of these cases did they require assistance -- but if they did, would you suggest that they should be allowed to choose this method of death and have someone assist them in moving away from the group and facing certain death by exposure or starvation?

 

[chansen]

Right because he's a quadriplegic he can't be a shrewd politician looking out for where to score political points. Because he's a quadriplegic disability rights must be his first order of business. A person can be quadriplegic and still not care.

But you have nothing on that. The above is just you, talking and dismissing the sort of personal story that you often use to back up your arguments.

Nobody is buying what you are selling. Maybe try changing how you sell it?

 

[Waterfall]

In my historic novel I have an elderly Inuit woman decide to walk away from her family encampment at a time of famine, and on another occasion a family deciding at his request to leave behind a man with a broken leg when he would slow down the family as they travel to their winter hunting grounds. In neither of these cases did they require assistance -- but if they did, would you suggest that they should be allowed to choose this method of death and have someone assist them in moving away from the group and facing certain death by exposure or starvation?

I know you didn't ask me, but my answer would be no.