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Much of Canada is largely uninhabitable. For any other than fairly widespread hunter-gatherer types, really.
 
ChemGal said:
In general though I think of Europe as being densely populated, most of ON certainly isn't - Canada in general has a pretty low population density.
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The fundamental problem with population density in Canada is that a simple, raw calculation of it leaves out the fact that the vast majority of us Canucks live within two hours of the border. We are not evenly distributed, IOW.

So the national figure is really meaningless. From a planning perspective, including something like pandemic response, you need to go by region. Not province, but region within the province. You simply cannot look at the raw national or even provincial density figure and know from that that 6 million+ people are pack into the GTA, one of the densest regions in the entire continent.
 
Demonstrations in Europe with thousands of participants against new Corona rules. Austria having an incidents rate is locking down as of tomorrow. Here the news from yesterdays demonstration ( translated from German Tagesspiegel website)

Vienna Minister fears further radicalization of the corona opponents​

According to Interior Minister Karl Nehammer (ÖVP), opponents of the corona measures are threatened with further radicalization in Austria. This is his impression due to the controls of the 2G rule and incidents at the demonstration of around 40,000 people on Saturday in Vienna, Nehammer said on Sunday.

A concrete example of the willingness to use violence is an arson attack on a police car in Linz. The two suspects have admitted that they wanted to kill the two police officers who had previously controlled them. This is a degree of radicalization that is in no way acceptable. There are death threats against the Chancellor and the Minister of Health.

Although most people peacefully expressed their displeasure during the demonstration, it also became clear that "old neo-Nazis and representatives of the new far-right scene" tried to heat up the mood. One of the incidents was the trivialization of the Holocaust by demonstrators with Jewish star identified themselves as "unvaccinated". Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg was also compared with concentration camp doctor Josef Mengele. Mengele had killed many Jews through medical attempts during the Nazi regime.

In Austria, the pressure on unvaccinated people is enormous. There is a 3G rule in the workplace, a 2G rule that excludes unvaccinated people from large parts of public life, and a lockdown for everyone from Monday. While this measure for vaccinated and recovered people ends on the 13th December, it will then continue to apply indefinitely to unvaccinated people. The country is suffering from a massive corona wave with a seven-day incidence well over 1000 cases per 100,000 inhabitants. (dpa)
Explanation: 3 G rule= only “geimpft”= Vaccinated, “ genesen”= recovered and “getested” = tested same day are allowed to participate
2G rule means the first two.
 
jimkenney12 said:
What is happening in Europe is scary. Them seem to take id as from Trump's followers.
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Let's face it, though, the European right wing actually predates Trumpism and inspired it to some degree. Now it's probably a bit of a vicious cycle of mutual inspiration, but people like Marine Le Pen and her father were around long before Trump entered politics.
 
True but Trump linked anti masking and anti vaccinations to libertarianism in a way that appealed to right wing extremists.
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
Demonstrations in Europe with thousands of participants against new Corona rules. Austria having an incidents rate is locking down as of tomorrow. Here the news from yesterdays demonstration ( translated from German Tagesspiegel website)

Vienna Minister fears further radicalization of the corona opponents​

According to Interior Minister Karl Nehammer (ÖVP), opponents of the corona measures are threatened with further radicalization in Austria. This is his impression due to the controls of the 2G rule and incidents at the demonstration of around 40,000 people on Saturday in Vienna, Nehammer said on Sunday.

A concrete example of the willingness to use violence is an arson attack on a police car in Linz. The two suspects have admitted that they wanted to kill the two police officers who had previously controlled them. This is a degree of radicalization that is in no way acceptable. There are death threats against the Chancellor and the Minister of Health.

Although most people peacefully expressed their displeasure during the demonstration, it also became clear that "old neo-Nazis and representatives of the new far-right scene" tried to heat up the mood. One of the incidents was the trivialization of the Holocaust by demonstrators with Jewish star identified themselves as "unvaccinated". Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg was also compared with concentration camp doctor Josef Mengele. Mengele had killed many Jews through medical attempts during the Nazi regime.

In Austria, the pressure on unvaccinated people is enormous. There is a 3G rule in the workplace, a 2G rule that excludes unvaccinated people from large parts of public life, and a lockdown for everyone from Monday. While this measure for vaccinated and recovered people ends on the 13th December, it will then continue to apply indefinitely to unvaccinated people. The country is suffering from a massive corona wave with a seven-day incidence well over 1000 cases per 100,000 inhabitants. (dpa)
Explanation: 3 G rule= only “geimpft”= Vaccinated, “ genesen”= recovered and “getested” = tested same day are allowed to participate
2G rule means the first two.
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How young are they vaccinating there? What's the plan for schools?
 
www.ctvnews.ca

Canada bans travellers from southern Africa as concerns mount over coronavirus variant

Canada will be banning the entry of all foreign nationals who have travelled through southern Africa in the last 14 days as concerns over a new coronavirus variant grow.
www.ctvnews.ca www.ctvnews.ca
I don't think this will work, it hasn't from any of the other variants. People travels elsewhere, it spreads and then people come here. What variant has this worked with?

I think we need to keep up with rapid testing at the border for quite some time. Does it catch all cases? No. If someone's viral load isn't high enough to be picked up on a test though, I would expect that to mean they aren't able to spread it easily. It may mean testing multiple times after arriving as well. That seems to be the best way to catch cases, including variants and minimizing the overall impact of things like tourism, trade, etc.
 
ChemGal said:
www.ctvnews.ca

Canada bans travellers from southern Africa as concerns mount over coronavirus variant

Canada will be banning the entry of all foreign nationals who have travelled through southern Africa in the last 14 days as concerns over a new coronavirus variant grow.
www.ctvnews.ca www.ctvnews.ca
I don't think this will work, it hasn't from any of the other variants. People travels elsewhere, it spreads and then people come here. What variant has this worked with?

I think we need to keep up with rapid testing at the border for quite some time. Does it catch all cases? No. If someone's viral load isn't high enough to be picked up on a test though, I would expect that to mean they aren't able to spread it easily. It may mean testing multiple times after arriving as well. That seems to be the best way to catch cases, including variants and minimizing the overall impact of things like tourism, trade, etc.
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The Covid vaccine does not work against this new variant....so I say stopping the travel would be wise as an added deterrent along with screening.
 
Waterfall said:
The Covid vaccine does not work against this new variant....so I say stopping the travel would be wise as an added deterrent along with screening.
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It's already gone beyond South Africa though, and there are probably cases in other parts of the world we just don't know about.
 
Waterfall said:
The Covid vaccine does not work against this new variant....so I say stopping the travel would be wise as an added deterrent along with screening.
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I don't think we know how effective the vaccine is. With mutations in the spike protein I would say it's a bigger concern with the vaccine, but it's not like the entire spike protein changes.

This is the statement I see so far:
Canadian health experts on Friday cautioned against alarm and said it would take time to assess the potential impact of the variant and that there's no evidence that existing COVID-19 vaccines wouldn't continue to be effective.
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More vaccine info.
Depending on what's found it may alter booster plans.
www.ctvnews.ca

Pfizer/BioNTech, Moderna expect data on shot's protection against new COVID-19 variant soon

BioNTech SE said on Friday it expects more data on a worrying new coronavirus variant detected in South Africa within two weeks to help determine whether its vaccine produced with partner Pfizer Inc would have to be reworked. Meanwhile, Moderna Inc said in a statement it is working to advance a...
www.ctvnews.ca www.ctvnews.ca
 
The travel stop at the first way at least delayed some of the spread ( and was good for the environment), having another variant hit during the spike of the fourth wave doesn’t sound like a good idea.
 
Mrs.Anteater said:
The travel stop at the first way at least delayed some of the spread ( and was good for the environment), having another variant hit during the spike of the fourth wave doesn’t sound like a good idea.
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I think we're past the 4th wave and are starting to see the very beginnings of the 5th unfortunately.

I'm not against limiting travel from South Africa, but I think that's only going to slow the spread of the variant getting here, and not by a whole lot. We really need to do more. I'm also very disappointed by the lack of back contract tracing. I guess with a number of people being hostile though it's difficult to do that.
 
Germany is introducing mandatory vaccinations for non essential shopping. Also recommending to reduce contacts. People were lining up for Black Friday shopping before it changes on Monday.
 
I was just thinking- remember our discussions with Rita? She was right about mandatory vaccinations coming. We didn’t know this pandemic will get this bad. Now, she was right for the wrong reasons.
 
I wonder why this pandemic is not petering out like the Spanish Flu did in the early 20th century. Do you think it's because of increased global mobility, and maybe increased global inequality (especially around access to vaccines)?
 
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