Racist/Islamophobic attack in London, Ontario

[Mendalla]

I also partly wonder about this young man's mental health, in perpetrating such an action. I had heard it reported he has no prior police contact. So it makes we wonder about psychosis & delusions - 20 is often the age when some psychotic disorders begin to make themselves outwardly evident.

Two points:

Somehow, whenever things like this happen involving a white guy, there's always a move to "must/could be mental illness" but somehow brown people, esp. if they follow Islam, don't seem to get the same benefit of the doubt and are assumed to be terrorists or motivated by extremism. I doubt that you would do that, but it is something that people have noted in cases like this in the past.

Even if he was mentally ill, how did his delusions get focused on Muslims? It is highly unlikely that he came up with it by himself. Most likely, he saw something or heard some extremist propaganda on social media (or even a news story of some kind) and started obsessing over those ideas. So hate still plays a role, even if mental illness is also a factor. Mentally ill people can still be hateful and mental illness should not be used to paper over the role racism and Islamophobia plays in an event like this.

 

[revjohn]

II also want to know who he had contact with and what rhetoric he might have read online or elsewhere that encouraged it. Freedom of speech is meaningless if it is not accompanied by taking responsibility for what you say and the consequences thereof and I am betting that someone besides the killer has some responsibility here.

Since he was taken alive we may get that information public eventually.

Laying actual hate charges is such a rarity that I suspect there were bundles of evidence collected at the point of the arrest. I expect that warrants will be issued and devices seized soon if they haven't been already.

 

[Luce NDs]

Hate cannot exist in a Christian Land!

Thus existentialism ... the exit? Heaven perceived from the alternate side? Reversion as support for the theme of action vs reaction! Thus we do unto them ... observe the thin red line to see where you're at ... remember the alteration of word as evolution to hide understanding portions ...

For those that didn't wish to know better ...

 

[Waterfall]

Two points:

Somehow, whenever things like this happen involving a white guy, there's always a move to "must/could be mental illness" but somehow brown people, esp. if they follow Islam, don't seem to get the same benefit of the doubt and are assumed to be terrorists or motivated by extremism. I doubt that you would do that, but it is something that people have noted in cases like this in the past.

Even if he was mentally ill, how did his delusions get focused on Muslims? It is highly unlikely that he came up with it by himself. Most likely, he saw something or heard some extremist propaganda on social media (or even a news story of some kind) and started obsessing over those ideas. So hate still plays a role, even if mental illness is also a factor. Mentally ill people can still be hateful and mental illness should not be used to paper over the role racism and Islamophobia plays in an event like this.

The murderer could also have no regrets and is proud of himself, thinking he accomplished a good thing. Having had no previous experience with the law, he is in for a very rude awakening in jail.
It will be interesting to see what route his lawyer takes.
In the meantime, London is responding wonderfully and very supportive....condemning the terrorism. Even Trudeau is referring to the killer as a terrorist.

 

[Mendalla]

Even Trudeau is referring to the killer as a terrorist.

In fact, JT is coming down tonight to join a vigil at the mosque.

I am hearing more about the family in the local press now. Which just makes it all the sadder. Seem like they would have been nice neighbours (I have an Iraqi Muslim family living two doors over).

I hope that the focus can now stay on the victims for a bit. Remembering, celebrating, hoping (beyond hope) they are the last.

 

[Mendalla]

CBC has a profile of the family up. Mother had just completed post-grad work in civil and environmental engineering. The daughter who died was artistically inclined, designing and implementing a mural in London Islamic School. Father sounds like he was a "pillar of the mosque" which rather reminds of Dad, who was always doing something or other for our church.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/london-truck-attack-victims-1.6057079

A little unhappy that they ended by naming the suspect. He could have been left out of this article.

 

[BetteTheRed]

I agree, but now that I've seen the name, I'm a bit puzzled. That's a Mennonite name if ever I've seen one, and they are so motivated by pacifism.

 

[Mendalla]

I agree, but now that I've seen the name, I'm a bit puzzled. That's a Mennonite name if ever I've seen one, and they are so motivated by pacifism.

Doesn't mean much. Mennonites have been in Southern Ontario so long, more than a few have assimilated. He may be no more Mennonite than me. And coming from a pacifist tradition does not a pacifist make.

 

[Waterfall]

The church of God in Aylmer is Mennonite...sorry my mind immediately went there.

 

[Mendalla]

The church of God in Aylmer is Mennonite...sorry my mind immediately went there.

And they do say right on their website that they are pacifist. Their refusal to obey the COVID rules was, in fact, generally peaceful though I believe there were occasions where members took a threatening stance towards reporters covering the story and such like. Being pacifist and being concerned about public health are two different issues.

 

[Waterfall]

And they do say right on their website that they are pacifist. Their refusal to obey the COVID rules was, in fact, generally peaceful though I believe there were a couple occasions where members took a threatening stance towards reporters covering the story. Being pacifist and being concerned about public health are two different issues.

Just a gut reaction.....non accusatory, but curious. Thanks.

 

[ChemGal]

Just a gut reaction.....non accusatory, but curious. Thanks.

I'm with you. I think threatening others' health isn't really all that peaceful. Not direct violence, but can have just as bad of an outcome.

 

[Mendalla]

Global has a good report on Islamophobia and racism in London and in general.

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[BetteTheRed]

No racist attack happens in a vacuum. If you want to go "head to head" on racism, I think my home town might win.

 

[Mendalla]

On the more positive side, thousands came out for the vigil tonight (masked and socially distanced, at least in the clips I have seen). And the memorials at the intersection where it happened keep growing.

The Free Press' collection of photos from today:

PHOTOS: Thousands gather in sorrow to mourn lost London family

Scores of Londoners joined together Tuesday night to mourn the four members of a family killed in what police allege was a hate-motivated killing. Our…

lfpress.com

 

[Mendalla]

London city council unanimously passed a motion on Islamophobia today, condemning the attack and setting out some actions, including working with the Muslim community to honour the victims and celebrate the contributions of the Muslim community.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1404901847274561542

And for those who haven't heard, when the killer made his second court appearance yesterday, terrorism charges were laid.

London attack suspect charged with terrorism | Globalnews.ca

globalnews-ca.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Luce NDs]

And recall irrationality often hide among the lie called false rationality! This is due to a domain that is very stirred ... theological dissonance as we cannot absorb what we see in science? Blinders go with reining ... and crosstrees and traces ... to move wagons ... mule trains?

Theosophy might be an adventure according to the described attributes that include uncertainty ... we who are not sure about authority and what they know ... are intrigued!

 

[Waterfall]

London city council unanimously passed a motion on Islamophobia today, condemning the attack and setting out some actions, including working with the Muslim community to honour the victims and celebrate the contributions of the Muslim community.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1404901847274561542

And for those who haven't heard, when the killer made his second court appearance yesterday, terrorism charges were laid.

London attack suspect charged with terrorism | Globalnews.ca

globalnews-ca.cdn.ampproject.org

Hopefully the terrorism charges don't add to the complexity of a conviction, especially when there seems to be no hard evidence other than the family he killed were of a different faith. It was stated that he had nothing on his computer and no police record or affiliation with any hate groups. His acquaintances and friends have said they have never heard him speak like this and I believe I read that one of his friends is muslim(couldn't find the source for that one). Terrorism is supposedly a hard case to make. Perhaps there is evidence to support the charge that is not being released, we shall see.

 

[Mendalla]

Hopefully the terrorism charges don't add to the complexity of a conviction, especially when there seems to be no hard evidence other than the family he killed were of a different faith. It was stated that he had nothing on his computer and no police record or affiliation with any hate groups. His acquaintances and friends have said they have never heard him speak like this and I believe I read that one of his friends is muslim(couldn't find the source for that one). Terrorism is supposedly a hard case to make. Perhaps there is evidence to support the charge that is not being released, we shall see.

And one wonders whether this will get plea bargained away to get him to accept the 1st degree murder charges. If they can make it stick, though, then they can probably go for the consecutive rather than concurrent sentences on the murder charges, putting him away for good.

As for what evidence they have, we have no actual idea right now. The court put a publication ban on during the first hearing so there may be stuff that the Crown can't talk about about save to the defense and judge.

 

[Waterfall]

And one wonders whether this will get plea bargained away to get him to accept the 1st degree murder charges. If they can make it stick, though, then they can probably go for the consecutive rather than concurrent sentences on the murder charges, putting him away for good.

As for what evidence they have, we have no actual idea right now. The court put a publication ban on during the first hearing so there may be stuff that the Crown can't talk about about save to the defense and judge.

I know nobody wants to hear this right now, BUT there is more evidence that a young person can successfully be rehabilitated back into society than an older inmate. So away for life? To me, serve time, but work on rehab IMO.