Here's an article about undiagnosed diabetes mellitus in patients with herpes zoster:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763737/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763737/
I don't vaccinate my child because it's my right to determine which diseases come back
- Thread starter chansen
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Can anyone think of any acquired chronic conditions that we've known about for awhile that were treated for a long time in many people but they actually instead found a cure for? I can't. Better, more expensive, treatments but not cures. Unless somebody knows some.
Do you agree that food manufacturers have the right to put tons of unecessary sugar in their products so that fewer people, especially poor people, have fewer healthy options they can afford? Is that much of a choice? Who's controlling the choice? Maybe they should be charged a "sin tax". But then they'd just increase prices.
(sorry I just saw you support a sugar tax - on whose end?)
I went shopping last night to a discount supermarket and got a few deals. It's all full of junk but it was what I could afford for now so it'll fill the hole. I don't see why I should pay the extra "sin tax" and cost to my health when they know what they're putting in the stuff. It'd be nice to afford better quality. Someday I will again but I can empathize with why people make unhealthy choices when they're stuck.
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The flu shot kills 13 in Italy:
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/it...d-to-flu-vaccine/story-fneszs56-1227140313129
SV40 in the Polio Vaccines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV40
http://www.naturalnews.com/033584_dr_maurice_hilleman_sv40.html
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/it...d-to-flu-vaccine/story-fneszs56-1227140313129
SV40 in the Polio Vaccines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV40
http://www.naturalnews.com/033584_dr_maurice_hilleman_sv40.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080829091323.htm
This is from 2008. Again, I am not anti-vaccine if it indeed works and the objective is to eliminate the disease, but not using our own heads and having healthy skepticism is also important.
I don't recall having the flu more often before the flu shot was available. It's been about the same for me. Some years I get it sometimes I don't - and the vaccine is always an educated guess as to which strains will show up that year, and then again the next year.
revjohn
Well-Known Member
Kimmio said:
Probably not. Canadian legal precedents influence the limitations to grandfathering the impact of new legislation.
Kimmio said:
The "good faith" element doesn't come into play when prescribing norms. It would be up to the courts to determine whether actions in "good faith" warranted an exemption from punitive measures and it would be in those courts where all of the arguments would be put to a test. It would also be there in the courts where societies voice gets to speak just as it does when lead-foot Larry has to defend his right to excessively violate speed restrictions.
revjohn
Well-Known Member
Pr. Jae said:
Well I was talking about legislation. Typically infractions of the Criminal Code result in some kind of justice seeking activity. I don't really see the point of objection.
Pr. Jae said:
If I were to run into you with my car and it was proven that I was negligent in its use should the courts look the other way when I claim that I cannot afford to pay you damages? I bet you'd be okay with that right?
Again, if you can't do the time, or in this case, pay the fine, don't do the time.
revjohn
Well-Known Member
ChemGal said:
I presume that there is a reason you cannot be immunized against pertussis. I would hope that such reason would be allowed to influence any court decision.
That said I find it unlikely, given the symptoms, that if you had pertussis you would happily put others at risk. There would be measures that allow you to mitigate against transmitting the disease and I hope you aren't advocating that you have the right to shed pertussis virii over anyone you please.
That's like driving without a seatbelt and hey, we have legislation for that.
Legislation is not a perfect solution.
Legislation can be a tool for shaping human behaviours.
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@revjohn if we have conflicting information about the safety of certain vaccines (see article a few posts above about flu shot not preventing deaths in seniors - others say it does), we know that companies are not just in it to be good Samaritans all the time, they have profit in mind, and they've been known to get things on the market too quickly, and we know that sometimes studies and current medical opinion can turn out to be wrong (Thalidamide?) then fining people who opt out hardly seems just.
Lastpointe
Well-Known Member
But we dont really have conflicting info about the safety of vaccines.
Some people died of the flu vaccine. Generally about 4000 people die of the flu in canada every year. And the majority of them are the elderly
Diseases kill.
Diseases cause damage to the patient
Diseases spread easily to the immuno compromised person
Vaccination is preventative health care. It should be mandatory.
Dont vaccinate your kid? Dont come to our public school. And dont fly on our airplanes
Some people died of the flu vaccine. Generally about 4000 people die of the flu in canada every year. And the majority of them are the elderly
Diseases kill.
Diseases cause damage to the patient
Diseases spread easily to the immuno compromised person
Vaccination is preventative health care. It should be mandatory.
Dont vaccinate your kid? Dont come to our public school. And dont fly on our airplanes
Seeler
Well-Known Member
Kimmio - in my experience young people do get shingles. I remember my mother being miserable with shingles. She died of a chronic illness in 1954 at the age of 40. So she was younger than 40 when she had shingles.
Also I remember a friend lifting her shirt to show me a torso that looked like it had been scalded (much worse than I remembered my mother's rash). That would have been years ago when my friend was about 35 - 40. She had the worst case of shingles I have ever seen before or since.
I dare say that shingles mostly effects older people, or sick people like my mother was, but it does effect younger people. My friend was otherwise in good health but may have been stressed about her teenage children. (another story)
Also I remember a friend lifting her shirt to show me a torso that looked like it had been scalded (much worse than I remembered my mother's rash). That would have been years ago when my friend was about 35 - 40. She had the worst case of shingles I have ever seen before or since.
I dare say that shingles mostly effects older people, or sick people like my mother was, but it does effect younger people. My friend was otherwise in good health but may have been stressed about her teenage children. (another story)
I don't have kids.
@Lastpointe are you willing to acknowledge that drug companies have made mistakes and omissions and could do so again? Do you think it's just fine that they self regulate their own studies?
I don't know. I'm from BC (which happens to have the highest life expectancy in Canada) and I've never met so many pharma enthusiastic people in one place at one time here as in these threads. It's different for me to encounter. There are a lot of people against vaccines, more "granola munchers" and earth mama yuppies, if you will, and I don't think we have higher rates of diseases because of fewer vaccines taken to prevent them. I can look into that.
@Lastpointe are you willing to acknowledge that drug companies have made mistakes and omissions and could do so again? Do you think it's just fine that they self regulate their own studies?
I don't know. I'm from BC (which happens to have the highest life expectancy in Canada) and I've never met so many pharma enthusiastic people in one place at one time here as in these threads. It's different for me to encounter. There are a lot of people against vaccines, more "granola munchers" and earth mama yuppies, if you will, and I don't think we have higher rates of diseases because of fewer vaccines taken to prevent them. I can look into that.
Are taxes against the freedom of extreme minds ... how bout extreme desires?
However extremes do hate fat mediums ... places where subtle extreme mediums reside as decentralized issues away from both ends ... gutte sensations from the hidden psycho pathe with a wee bit of wisdom?
Alas ... a mire metaphor of bit is "chit" ... and chitty, chitty bang bang is an explosive pro blam' or literary enigma ... when all the icons are not in order .. chaos theory about desirous people who cannot extend thought ... thus they were swallowed up by outside naïveté!! Is that peculiar state of mind ... like a fat head right out of heaven ... a state of mind.
If you didn't believe in mind, soul, psyche and only in free desires ... could you think, or meditate on extreme functions? Get out 've 'ere ... and you'll experience OBI as loss of the Eire that I breathe ... causing hiccups and giggles in space ... undesirous sounds to the noble high erupts ... who exp;ode when hearing a possibility that they were wrong about something, or even everything ... considering that we worship pure love ... thus eliminating any trace of intellect.
Alas nothing is perfect even vacuous states ... they suck up anything ... sort of like avarice sole ... not that different than heironomyous ... a bosche making a sound like thoughts going down de Nous ... or trough ... sometimes known as a Runes of runels of thought on de page bi! One should look into the history of heironymous .. as a higher oni muse conscience ... all bound up! Few can read intuit. Thank god ... a fine way to preserve mind ... or save a soul if you like alternate expression of altruism!
Many don't care for that atoll and thus island personality ... mahaineim can this be disposed or transferred to fecund spatial modes?
However extremes do hate fat mediums ... places where subtle extreme mediums reside as decentralized issues away from both ends ... gutte sensations from the hidden psycho pathe with a wee bit of wisdom?
Alas ... a mire metaphor of bit is "chit" ... and chitty, chitty bang bang is an explosive pro blam' or literary enigma ... when all the icons are not in order .. chaos theory about desirous people who cannot extend thought ... thus they were swallowed up by outside naïveté!! Is that peculiar state of mind ... like a fat head right out of heaven ... a state of mind.
If you didn't believe in mind, soul, psyche and only in free desires ... could you think, or meditate on extreme functions? Get out 've 'ere ... and you'll experience OBI as loss of the Eire that I breathe ... causing hiccups and giggles in space ... undesirous sounds to the noble high erupts ... who exp;ode when hearing a possibility that they were wrong about something, or even everything ... considering that we worship pure love ... thus eliminating any trace of intellect.
Alas nothing is perfect even vacuous states ... they suck up anything ... sort of like avarice sole ... not that different than heironomyous ... a bosche making a sound like thoughts going down de Nous ... or trough ... sometimes known as a Runes of runels of thought on de page bi! One should look into the history of heironymous .. as a higher oni muse conscience ... all bound up! Few can read intuit. Thank god ... a fine way to preserve mind ... or save a soul if you like alternate expression of altruism!
Many don't care for that atoll and thus island personality ... mahaineim can this be disposed or transferred to fecund spatial modes?
Personally, I would probably vaccinate my child if I had one. But I wouldn't automatically penalize somebody who didn't.
Pinga
Room for All
People that make seatbelts make them for profit. Seatbelts save lives. The early versions of seatbelts don't save as many lives as todays do. Some folks end up with injuries from them.
Air bags save lives. Now, we recognize that babies lives are more likely to be saved in rear facing seats in the back seat.
Yes there is risk in change, but not having safety devices is not the option. Things evolve, get better -- and yes by corporations out to make a profit.
***********
you asked about medical items that give "cures".
Chemo has evolved, it works many many more times, than it did in the past. There are many varieties of cancer still to be reviewed. Yes, there is money made by those companies....yet, they keep striving to do better.
Shunts for hearts save lives
Fake knees have evolved, as have hips, giving people their lives back from being cripped
There are many many different types of medical solutions brought forward by corprorations
Air bags save lives. Now, we recognize that babies lives are more likely to be saved in rear facing seats in the back seat.
Yes there is risk in change, but not having safety devices is not the option. Things evolve, get better -- and yes by corporations out to make a profit.
***********
you asked about medical items that give "cures".
Chemo has evolved, it works many many more times, than it did in the past. There are many varieties of cancer still to be reviewed. Yes, there is money made by those companies....yet, they keep striving to do better.
Shunts for hearts save lives
Fake knees have evolved, as have hips, giving people their lives back from being cripped
There are many many different types of medical solutions brought forward by corprorations
It's ok NDs the pharma companies will rescue us with a new form of manufactured oxygen. No breathing required, they'll have a pill for that.
Should we be putting blind trust in them to shape the world for us and make decisions for us? I think not.
Don't use the word crippled if you're not joking and you're not 'crippled'.
Has there ever been a medical cure to a chronic illness that a person was being treated for prior - not maintenance but complete cure - that brought a person back to their original healthy state? I think we see a lot more drugs being taken regularly, lifelong, to ward off symptoms but not many true cures for chronic illness.