I don't vaccinate my child because it's my right to determine which diseases come back

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Kimmio said:
They were also only looking at rates in those over 65. And rates had increased 39% over the 18 year period. Would the bulk of cases be near the end of that period or the beginning?
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It would be good to see more done, this is all what I've seen (although I haven't searched extensively recently).
 
Kimmio said:
I don't know if I believe that the risk is lower with the vaccine. I think it is very strange that people like my half brother got shingles in his late 20s when it is usually people much older - but that makes sense if my friend's pov is correct.
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This post of yours succintly demonstrates where you go wrong on all of these rants of yours. Anecdotes are nothing. Zip. They are a blip on the screen. They tell us nothing.

You are perpetually extrapolating anecdotes that fit your arguments into what you think is some form of evidence. It is not. Chemgal is hunting for the evidence you seek. You've got people scrambling, trying to answer for you, when all you really have to do is the legwork, yourself. A midwife says something against a vaccine, and it serves as something worth bringing up to you. One person gets shingles, and that is "strange" to you. A study? Not worth looking up. Someone got shingles? Stop the presses.

Again, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data". It is nothing.
 
chansen said:
This post of yours succintly demonstrates where you go wrong on all of these rants of yours. Anecdotes are nothing. Zip. They are a blip on the screen. They tell us nothing.

You are perpetually extrapolating anecdotes that fit your arguments into what you think is some form of evidence. It is not. Chemgal is hunting for the evidence you seek. You've got people scrambling, trying to answer for you, when all you really have to do is the legwork, yourself. A midwife says something against a vaccine, and it serves as something worth bringing up to you. One person gets shingles, and that is "strange" to you. A study? Not worth looking up. Someone got shingles? Stop the presses.

Again, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data". It is nothing.
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So you don't believe a midwife would have credible health info but a nurse or GP would?
 
I was not trying to prove or disprove anything. I respect her knowledge and experience and she happened to be sitting in the room as I was reading the thread. So I asked her about it.
 
Kimmio said:
So you don't believe a midwife would have credible health info but a nurse or GP would?
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No! FFS, where the hell did I write that?!?

You take anecdotes and bits and pieces from individuals, and suddenly, they are thrust into the same conversation against studies. That's bulls**t.
 
Four cases of measles reported in toronto today. They dont know how they got it yet

I have heard of young people getting shingles. There is really no reason why you couldnt once you have the. Irus in your

Chicken pox is a dangerous disease. People just dont realise it
 
chansen said:
No! FFS, where the hell did I write that?!?

You take anecdotes and bits and pieces from individuals, and suddenly, they are thrust into the same conversation against studies. That's bulls**t.
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You accused me of looking to prove something wrong through anecdotes and I was just curious so I asked my friend. I am not the anti vaxx crowd neither is she. She just tries to stay informed in and through her work. And I also find it odd that younger people I know have had severe shingles - anecdotal sure but when she said that I was reminded of my brother and a couple of other people who were not seniors. Relax.
 
chansen said:
This post of yours succintly demonstrates where you go wrong on all of these rants of yours. Anecdotes are nothing. Zip. They are a blip on the screen. They tell us nothing.

You are perpetually extrapolating anecdotes that fit your arguments into what you think is some form of evidence. It is not. Chemgal is hunting for the evidence you seek. You've got people scrambling, trying to answer for you, when all you really have to do is the legwork, yourself. A midwife says something against a vaccine, and it serves as something worth bringing up to you. One person gets shingles, and that is "strange" to you. A study? Not worth looking up. Someone got shingles? Stop the presses.

Again, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data". It is nothing.
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I think you're being overly harsh in this instance. Kimmio did state it was what she had been told. She didn't make it as a strong statement. It was a poor argument, and would have been silly to bring up after someone brings something up with evidence. That wasn't what has happened.

You were just as quick to knock it down as wrong, and I don't think you knew of anything one way or another when you posted.

Anecdotes can be pretty powerful to someone's thought process. It's something people who are aware of work to keep in check. It also piques curiosity, which is good for science.
 
Lastpointe said:
Four cases of measles reported in toronto today. They dont know how they got it yet

I have heard of young people getting shingles. There is really no reason why you couldnt once you have the. Irus in your

Chicken pox is a dangerous disease. People just dont realise it
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And it's serious for adults to get shingles so that should be considered if younger people are getting it more nowdays. The study posted did not study anyone under 65.
 
Pinga said:
Chicken pox kills immune compromised people

Get the vaccine
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I agree, from the standpoint of the younger generations.
From a policy point of view, this one is interesting. If the hypothesis turns out to be correct, it means implementing this vaccination program as it stands is good for the younger generations, but there's a generation or two that might see greater harm than benefit. I wouldn't be surprised to see a shingles vaccine being offered younger, although if it would help I don't know how much effort would go into helping a select generation.

From a selfish point of view, I'm at a disadvantage if this is true, even if a vaccine does come out. If I can benefit off of antivaxers silly beliefs, I'm willing to do so :) If I see a resurgence of chicken pox parties in the area, I would try to ask my doctor about it first. Maybe I can even get my titres tested so my decision would be slightly more informed.
 
ChemGal said:
It's frustrating, you can find articles like this:
http://www.macleans.ca/society/health/generation-at-risk/
but very little studies.

Maybe it's just my own bias, but I feel like there's a hesitancy to critique vaccines/their strategies as the antivax crowd will pounce and twist the information well beyond what it means.
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And that's a problem because any company that is the sole maker of vaccines should be questioned. By the way my middle child had shingles in his early 20's.
 
Waterfall said:
And that's a problem because any company that is the sole maker of vaccines should be questioned. By the way my middle child had shingles in his early 20's.
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Are the producers the ones who should be doing so in this case, when it isn't the people who receive the vaccine who may be experience negative outcomes?
 
As for measles, what the vaccine makers fail to give us are the real efficacy rates for the measles vaccine. It is more around 55-60% effective, not 95%.
Immunity after being vaccinated, can stop being effective from the 1st dose from 2 to 10 years. We as parents wouldn't know if our child was still protected without a blood test. The second dose is even less....about 2 years. This would explain why those who are vaccinated can still get the measles.

I realize that Merck must convince the gov't and us, to blame the anti vaxers, in order to shift the blame onto a common enemy, but could it be that they might have been lying about the efficacy of their vaccine all along? Is this the push that Merck needs to make vaccines mandatory in all states? Once that law is passed, how many and which vaccines will you be allowed to refuse down the road? Suddenly the MMR could become a 5 step program. Or your daughter/son HAS to get gardasil, ebola vaccine,......etc.....

I notice no one is celebrating the fact that those who got measles will now be immune for life (no need for a vaccine) and no threat to others.
 
ChemGal said:
Are the producers the ones who should be doing so in this case, when it isn't the people who receive the vaccine who may be experience negative outcomes?
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I'm not sure who would be considered "independent" anymore when there is so much money involved.
 
chansen said:
This post of yours succintly demonstrates where you go wrong on all of these rants of yours. Anecdotes are nothing. Zip. They are a blip on the screen. They tell us nothing.

You are perpetually extrapolating anecdotes that fit your arguments into what you think is some form of evidence. It is not. Chemgal is hunting for the evidence you seek. You've got people scrambling, trying to answer for you, when all you really have to do is the legwork, yourself. A midwife says something against a vaccine, and it serves as something worth bringing up to you. One person gets shingles, and that is "strange" to you. A study? Not worth looking up. Someone got shingles? Stop the presses.

Again, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data". It is nothing.
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So, there is no study in people under 65 and shingles rates so we should just assume that witnessing and experiencing an increase in younger adults getting shingles in our families and communities is a figment of our imagination until a study comes out meanwhile they will just give the vaccine to scores of kids anyway without looking into it which does well for those kids and the drug companies but that still doesn't explain the spike in shingles cases that young people are experiencing and missing work and expensive post secondary education for and in some cases dying young.
 
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