Let's talk policy instead of personalities

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Waterfall said:
If you ever want to see your reasonings in action, just take a drive in a big city in India or Mexico. When I was in Columbia, there are stop signs but no one pays attention to them and it's a free for all at every intersection....very scary. No tickets given.
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Even Panama City, which is a fairly Westernized place due to both the American influence and foreigners having winter homes there, has some spectacularly bad driving by our standards.
 
unsafe said:
Waterfall ----this is from google ---how many people stop at stop signs

People also ask
How many people actually stop at stop signs?
People don't STOP at STOP signs!!
To be fair about 30% of drivers did stop.....but mostly that was only because they had to give way to cars already in the intersections. I estimate that only about 5% of drivers actually come to a complete STOP.Apr 15, 2012

And to be fair ---you need to get caught by the Police to get a ticket -----
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Are you talking about Canada here? If so can you provide a citation?
 
Waterfall said:
I was thinking country roads, but it still seems high.
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Those, too. I think people are actually pretty good about observing traffic lights (save running yellows) but signs? The difference between STOP and YIELD is sometimes measured in km/h rather than whether one stops.
 
Mendalla said:
Those, too. I think people are actually pretty good about observing traffic lights (save running yellows) but signs? The difference between STOP and YIELD is sometimes measured in km/h rather than whether one stops.
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I was thinking running a traffic light would be more risky than a stop sign...
I had a friend who lost an 8 month old son because someone sped through a country stop sign and they were the only two cars on the road at the time.....tragic.
 
Waterfall said:
I was thinking running a traffic light would be more risky than a stop sign...
I had a friend who lost an 8 month old son because someone sped through a country stop sign and they were the only two cars on the road at the time.....tragic.
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I tend to be very cautious at country stop signs for that reason. Down here, unless you're on a fairly busy provincial highway like 7, the odds of the OPP being around to deal with idiots is slim.
 
Waterfall

here is your Canada ignoring stop signs -----and no tickets --cause there was no cops there to catch them -----

I say ---do you think Canadians adhere to stop signs there Waterfall -----well think again ----

Hamilton·Video

Watch drivers treat neighbourhood stop signs as optional

'It was just a steady stream of cars ignoring the stop sign entirely,' says Colton Taylor
Drivers speeding past stop signs, vehicles rolling through an intersection and even a couple of near misses are captured in a video an east Hamilton resident says he shot in just 24 minutes Monday.
 
unsafe said:
Waterfall

here is your Canada ignoring stop signs -----and no tickets --cause there was no cops there to catch them -----

I say ---do you think Canadians adhere to stop signs there Waterfall -----well think again ----

Hamilton·Video

Watch drivers treat neighbourhood stop signs as optional

'It was just a steady stream of cars ignoring the stop sign entirely,' says Colton Taylor
Drivers speeding past stop signs, vehicles rolling through an intersection and even a couple of near misses are captured in a video an east Hamilton resident says he shot in just 24 minutes Monday.
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Well thanks for that....that's awful.
I know Hamilton has cameras on traffic lights to catch people even if they run a yellow light but stop signs seem to be the problem....there are some people that just don't like being told what to do arent there?
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
Then why don't you voluntarily accept that some rules are to save lives and protect the common good?
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Mandatory Masking is NOT one of them. Lockdowns are NOT working either.
1. Identifying airborne transmission as the dominant route for the spread of COVID-19
2. Absence of Apparent Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from Two Stylists...
3. COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data
4. Why I'm Not Wearing A Mask - California Globe
5. Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Personal Protective and Environmental Measures
6. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmp2006372#
7. Unmasking the surgeons: the evidence base behind the use of facemasks in surgery
8. A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers
9. Lockdowns and Mask Mandates Do Not Lead to Reduced COVID...
10. Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: a randomized controlled trial - PubMed
11. Mask Facts - The Model Health Show
12.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1298282535617810436
13.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1297631673056727040
14.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1304166190604984320
15.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1303793597595090944
16.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1297712290922291201
17. https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/1296502543699197952/photo/1
18. https://twitter.com/jeffreyatucker/status/1296055415067860994/photo/1
19. https://twitter.com/Hold2LLC/status/1294064036003426308/photo/1
20. ACP Journals
21. A Detailed Map of Who Is Wearing Masks in the U.S.
22. Your Mask May Be Causing Candida Growth in Your Mouth | Everyday Health
23. https://journals.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/jappl.1987.63.1.25
24. Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks
25. Influenza Virus Aerosols in Human Exhaled Breath: Particle Size, Culturability, and Effect of Surgical Masks
 
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Kimmio Laughterlove said:
YOU would voluntarily do what's right for the common good, you say. Because you always know? Then why don't you voluntarily accept that some rules are to save lives and protect the common good?

I agree that there are some unjust rules. Wearing a mask isn't one of them. Fines for speeding isn't one of them. Workplace health and safety rules aren't either. It's mandatory to have a trained first aid person at a construction site, for example. In fact, every workplace is required to have one first aid trained person on-site. It's mandatory that restaurants keep their kitchens clean and hygienic. It's mandatory that food be washed thoroughly and meat cooked at high enough temperatures to kill food borne bacteria. That helps ensure they're careful even if they're really busy or have poor attention to detail. It's not because restaurants intend to make people sick. But if they flouted the health and safety rules - made a point of it - I wouldn't want to eat there. If someone decided hair nets or keeping long hair tied back was too restricting of their freedom - then they need a different job - they shouldn't be randomly letting hair fall into customers food (hair falls out daily - 50 to 100 hairs per day - we don't usually see it happen except maybe when brushing it. The rest of the time it just silently happens. And then if it lands in a simmering pot of soup or on a cooling plate, the bacteria multiplies). If someone with long hair cooks for themselves at home and doesn't keep their hair back, then that's different. That's their choice affecting nobody but themselves. And they're free to eat their own hair with their food as much as they want.
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Good post and good question :3 I like this aspect of you

So how do you feel aboot the various BLM and BLM-adjacient demonstrations where there are often crowds of people cheek by jowel?

How 'bout the various demonstrations going on worldwide with sometimes thousands?

Are they endangering peoples lives like apparently Rita is?


Some good discussion here, folks.


And goodonya Rita for persisting.

#MutualAid
#BeNotAfraid
#SystemicWhimsey
#JoyPrivilege
 
BetteTheRed said:
incarcerated persons were excluded
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Speaking of our sister Australia ... being that we are both owned and ruled by the same crown corporation ...

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves"?

Update from someone who lives close to the city of Melbourne ... who shall remain anonymous but has given permission to share his vantage point:

"This is some messed up 1984 s**t going on"

"A couple that I know who owns several successful hair salons in Melbourne ... this week they dropped their children at their grandparents and then both committed suicide."

"It's pretty much getting desperate. People were arrested for holding a candle vigil for the ridiculous amount of people who have killed themselves."

"Dan Andrews is in parliament trying to pass laws so that anyone who speaks out against him can be arrested."

"Police have gone into full 'SS' mode in some areas and they are encouraging people to inform police if anyone is not complying."

Suicide David.jpg

Log into Facebook | Facebook
Craig Kelly
10 mins ·
HOW MANY DEATHS FROM OTHER CAUSES DID HIS ‘SUPER-COMPUTER’ MODEL ?
Everyday the sociopath gives a rambling press conference, where he rolls off statistics of the number many people have tested positive for covid - but without any detail of how many of these people have any symptoms, or if they have nothing more than a runny nose.

He also rolls off the number of deaths, misleading the public by creating the false impression that the deaths are FROM Covid - when Victoria’s Chief Health Officer has confirmed they are people that have died WITH covid.

At the next press conference, could some journalists please ask him the question;
1. How many deaths from suicide did your supercomputer model would result from the lockdown ?
2. Each morning, when you roll out your statistics, can you include details the numbers of suicides in Victoria in past 24 hours ?
3. How does your ‘supercomputer’ determine the point at which the harm caused by your lockdown;
* the suicides,
* the increases in deaths from stroke & heart attacks,
* the increase in death from delays in medical treatments,
* the future increases in death from delays in illnesses being diagnosed,
* the increases in still births,
* the increases in child sexual abuse,
* the increase in domestic violence,
* the mental health toll,
* the bankruptcies,
* the destruction of the polices force’s reputation,
* the damage to Victorian’s health from being lockup in their homes for 23 hours a day, including Vitiam D deficiencies,
* the loss of students education,
* the damage to trust in government,
* the tens of billions of debt being run up for future generations to pay,
* etc., ect., etc.
Outweighs the benefit in the decline in the number of people testing positive (with or without symptoms) from Covid ?

@PilgrimsProgress ?
 
Anyone that has been deceived into thinking that the mad dictator lockdown in Victoria (the most brutal in world) are ‘’saving them’’ or ‘’protecting their health’’ is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

‘A cure must not be worse than the problem’ is a thesis that is more relevant than ever in the current situation. We note, however, that the collateral damage now being caused to the population will have a greater impact in the short and long term on all sections of the population than the number of people now being safeguarded from corona.'
https://docs4opendebate.be/en/open-letter/...
 
Ritafee said:
Anyone that has been deceived into thinking that the mad dictator lockdown in Victoria (the most brutal in world) are ‘’saving them’’ or ‘’protecting their health’’ is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
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Thankyou for your arm chair analysis.....we are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome if we disagree on some things with you.
It's a pandemic, not a dictatorship.
 
Waterfall ---you said -----.there are some people that just don't like being told what to do arent there?

I say ---that is the real truth ----and no policies or fines that are put in place will stop the people who believe they are fighting for their freedom -----these people believe that the Government wants to take total control of their freedom ----the Mandatory lock down ---wearing masks etc is just fuelling the fire for these people ----it is just unacceptable to them ---you can read all --just posted this -----

PANDEMIC
Ammon Bundy wants national effort to buck coronavirus rules

www.eenews.net

E&E News: Ammon Bundy wants national effort to buck coronavirus rules

<p>Idaho resident Ammon Bundy last night predicted a national movement could emerge to counter stay-at-home orders that have become prevalent during the coronavirus pandemic.</p>
www.eenews.net www.eenews.net

Bundy, who came to national attention for his leadership roles in two armed standoffs challenging federal land management, has accused state officials of "exploiting" the COVID-19 pandemic and violating the Constitution's Bill of Rights by ordering business closures and issuing stay-home orders (Greenwire, March 30).

"It really doesn't matter what numbers there are when it comes to the coronavirus. It really doesn't matter if it's real or not, if it's rampant or not, whether it's a pandemic or not," Bundy said last night at a meeting he organized in Emmett, Idaho. "Because it still does not give government officials the right to infringe upon on our rights. And that's what matters."
 
Inannawhimsey said:
So how do you feel aboot the various BLM and BLM-adjacient demonstrations where there are often crowds of people cheek by jowel?

How 'bout the various demonstrations going on worldwide with sometimes thousands?
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I have seen good and bad ones. The big BLM demonstration here in London actually had organizers who worked hard to encourage and enforce masking, social distancing, and so on. However, it is clear from footage I have seen that many of these demonstrations have been either spontaneous or at least organized with less focus on COVID safety. I would not risk joining such a demonstration and anyone who does needs to be aware of, and accept, the risk they are taking to express themselves.
 
Waterfall said:
Thankyou for your arm chair analysis.....we are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome if we disagree on some things with you.
It's a pandemic, not a dictatorship.
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Do you disagree with the armchair analysis of the grandmother in the Victoria nursing home as well? Is she just another selfish conspiracy theorist calling her government a dictatorship. So you disagree with me on what constitutes elder abuse and child abuse. You are good with it. Sometimes I despair ... it is like nothing can penetrate this wall of resistance to the truth ... it's like people want the pandemic to be 'validated' to justify the abuse of power that is going on right now. No amount of threat of a virus that is now proving to be no more lethal than any other warrants the ongoing measures. It is now bordering on a 'deliberate' crime against humanity. The margin for error has passed and it is time to stop oppressing people in the name of Public Health. Even if I am wrong about the level of threat of corona ... the measures in place are not helping more than they are hurting ... that should be obvious to anyone that is actually paying attention.
 
I would like to point out the irony that, in a thread entitled "let's talk policy instead of personalities", people whose policy suggestions are disagreed with are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome...
 
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