COVID-19 and Skepticism with studies, orders, guidelines

[Ritafee]

Social media is full of conspiracy theories, that often make connections that are faulty and unscientific. It's a health crisis, folks, and we should be paying attention to the medical specialists in the field.

COVID-19 deaths are a relatively small proportion of the 114 deaths per day that are normally seen in Victoria.

Ordinary sensible people if properly informed, should inevitably conclude that the current government policy is ill focused, heavy-handed, and unjustifiable as a proportionate response to the risks posed by COVID-19 to the public’s health.

Yours faithfully,

• Mr Geoff Wells, Urologist, Box Hill Hospital, Private Practice.
• Mr Bob Millar, Transplant Surgeon, Royal Melbourne Hospital
• Mr Jon Bare, Orthopaedic Surgeon, Monash Hospital, Private Practice.
• Professor Nathan Grills, Public Health Physician, University of Melbourne.
• Professor John Murtagh, Emeritus Professor AO Academic General Practitioner
• Professor Haydn Walters, Respiratory Medicine, University of Tasmania.
• Professor Kuruvilla George, Psychiatrist,
• Mr Peter Denton, General Surgeon
• Mr William Edwards, Orthopaedic Surgeon, Private Practice.
• Dr Andrew Taylor, Gastroenterologist, St Vincent’s Hospital
• Mr Michael Knight, Orthopaedic Surgeon, Private Practice.
• Dr John Mathai, Psychiatrist,
• Dr Eamonn Mathieson, Anaesthetist, Private Practice.

 

[Ritafee]

(it's kinda commonsense - when you give it some thought!)

Facts about Covid-19

 

[ChemGal]

@PilgrimsProgress Was there information on where transmission tended to be seen? Here wvwn with things like BLM protests transmission was very minimal. I see no issues with allowing people outside or curbside pickups etc. I do wish more info was shared at times. Verve condos it would have been useful to hear where transmission occurred. Or thw church outbreaks. One church with 150 members 101 cases. I think they are trying to reduce backlash that is happening but would be good to know what the setup was like mask usage etc.

 

[PilgrimsProgress]

@PilgrimsProgress Was there information on where transmission tended to be seen?

In Melbourne transmission is seen more in the more working class suburbs. This is because they are the very people who can't often work from home and have to travel by public transport. They work in low paid jobs that are deemed necessary - supermarkets, nursing homes, etc.
Also, they often work shift work in different locations.

With the weather warming up the 20 and 30 age groups are in increasing numbers. Also, exhausted health workers.

In an ideal world folks may not need to wear masks, If folks would and could socially distance and self-isolate if they have symptoms.
But, reality informs us that we don't all live in an ideal world with folks main concern the common good.

 

[Ritafee]

But, reality informs us that we don't all live in an ideal world with folks main concern the common good.

What is the magic formula that is going to allow us to sound the all clear?
Is it zero cases?
The only way that will happen is if we just stop testing and stop reporting.
Is it a vaccine?
Do you really think people will flock to get a fast tracked, quickly tested vaccine, whose long term side effects and overall efficacy are anyone's best guess?
How long are we going to cancel and postpone and reconsider?
What if next March is worse than this one was?
When do we decide quality of life outweighs the risks?
I understand Covid can be deadly or very dangerous for SOME people.
So are peanuts, strawberries, and shellfish.
We take risks multiple times a day without a second thought.
We know driving a car can be dangerous, we don't leave it in the garage.
We know the dangers of smoking, drinking and eating fried foods, we do it anyway.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

What is the magic formula that is going to allow us to sound the all clear?
Is it zero cases?
The only way that will happen is if we just stop testing and stop reporting.
Is it a vaccine?
Do you really think people will flock to get a fast tracked, quickly tested vaccine, whose long term side effects and overall efficacy are anyone's best guess?
How long are we going to cancel and postpone and reconsider?
What if next March is worse than this one was?
When do we decide quality of life outweighs the risks?
I understand Covid can be deadly or very dangerous for SOME people.
So are peanuts, strawberries, and shellfish.
We take risks multiple times a day without a second thought.
We know driving a car can be dangerous, we don't leave it in the garage.
We know the dangers of smoking, drinking and eating fried foods, we do it anyway.

People drive their cars carefully, there are driving laws to deter dangerous driving, traffic lights, signs, lines on the road - people check the ingredients of what they eat - it's now a rule to label products that may contain traces of nuts. We don't have to put others at risk with smoking, drinking or eating unhealthy food. And when it comes to smoking we are not allowed to pollute others air (now being an on again off again smoker, a smoking addict - I can attest that it's a difficult pain in the ass to not be able to smoke anywhere. But if it saves the life of someone who could die quickly from an athsma attack just breathing my second hand smoke - I've learned to be okay with it and seek out spots around town where smokers smoke, staff at places I shop, and it's pretty well known that's where they smoke and non smokers avoid that spot (outdoors, usually in the far corners of a few parking lots, by a tree - or in an alley that makes me feel like a rebel weirdo - if I have to have one. It sucks to be an outcast in yet another way. But it is for the common good. Now, if the government would just stop selling them AND gave every smoker a three month supply of nicotine replacements we might be able to kick the habit. But they have to stop selling them. They won't because cigs cost about $1 a pack to make and they're sold for $12-15 a pack. It's all taxes that pay for things like healthcare. In that sense, I don't feel guilty about it. I use the healthcare system a lot less than one might assume -less than I should probably - and never smoking related. Not yet.

The thing with covid is you could have it mildly but pass it on and kill somebody within a week, and they had no choice unless they locked themselves away from 'you'. Rather than everybody taking equal precautions.

 

[Ritafee]

The thing with covid is you could have it mildly but pass it on and kill somebody within a week, and they had no choice unless they locked themselves away from 'you'. Rather than everybody taking equal precautions.

What if I had a mild flu 6 months ago ... was I not just as much of a threat then as what you are making me out to be now? Get a grip.

 

[Ritafee]

But, reality informs us that we don't all live in an ideal world with folks main concern the common good.

Premier Dan Andrews isn’t interested in reality. To get 5 cases or less for 14 days in a row technically means that if 13 days had zero cases and one day 6, lockdown would stay. Utter madness.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

What if I had a mild flu 6 months ago ... was I not just as much of a threat then as what you are making me out to be now? Get a grip.

"You" meaning plural. No if you had mild flu you would not be as much of a threat. People don't often end up on kidney dialysis if they recover from the flu, either.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Premier Dan Andrews isn’t interested in reality. To get 5 cases or less for 14 days in a row technically means that if 13 days had zero cases and one day 6, lockdown would stay. Utter madness.
View attachment 4081

It makes sense to get it down to zero cases and holding there consistently.

The more people resist like you're doing, the harsher it'll be for everybody. Because you're doing this they have to assume anybody could behave as childishly as you about it - so we all get grounded. Thanks for prolonging the harsher measures.

Regardless of whether you stay home or choose to distance and wear a mask, etc, in real life when you go to buy groceries or something - you're having a tantrum about it, and joining the other tantrumers, and that tantrum is a big reason why health authorities have to be more stringent.

 

[Ritafee]

"You" meaning plural. No if you had mild flu you would not be as much of a threat. People don't often end up on kidney dialysis if they recover from the flu, either.

Just stop with your exageration ... how many people have ended up with kidney dialysis in canada because they had corona virus?

 

[Ritafee]

The more people resist like you're doing, the harsher it'll be for everybody. Because you're doing this they have to assume anybody could behave as childishly as you about it - so we all get grounded. Thanks for prolonging the harsher measures.

I am not behaving childishly ... I am not willing to negotiate with terrorists ... there is a difference.

 

[Ritafee]

It makes sense to get it down to zero cases and holding there consistently.

Why not do that with the flu then?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Why not do that with the flu then?

Because it's not as dangerous. And there's a vaccine that significantly lowers transmission. Covid is very dangerous for more people and there's no thoroughly tested vaccine and only a couple of promising treatments that are not readily available yet for severe cases.

 

[Delightful Life]

A place to post anything about COVID-19 that doesn't match up with scientific studies, public health orders, suggested guidelines, etc.

W00t! *rubs hand eauivalents*
Lots of bizarre cases out there...I'll try to collect some...people getting sick with no infected around them...people being positive then negative...nice bizarre stuff...

It's nice they can do that. It's not realistic for everyone and kids from poor families would lose out on their educations or carry higher risk.

Your post there was in regards to pods.
I know of one group of BIPOC teachers who told their bosses to go eff themselves they are not going to see their students in person that is racist. Goooooo PEEPS :3
Pods can b good for poor people during the lockdown when few people could work; thry could get a larger group to pool their resources or some form of barter?
Even better, this has shown how systemically racist public school is. After all, where do they learn it from? :3 aaand it has helped show people that public school can b optional...home schooling is an option. And if one wants 2 better fight the dominant culture of oppression, where even math and science are racist...

I don't know. I would've thought contact sports like rugby wouldn't be allowed right now. But at least those contacts are easy enough to trace.

OOOOOO.
I also know why the rates here in BEE CEE r rising: in Vancouver hardly anyone wears masks indoors. In N Delta even BIPOC dont wear masks indoors. In Richmond, bless them, MASK WEARERS. When I tookthe bus to see my dad I wore my airplane protection (goggles and 2 masks). So bizarre to see so little people wearing masks, esp compared to Portland/Vancouver. How is it there?

Ans dont you think there can b not much nuance in conv today? Like how people can get all het up over 1 person not wearing a mask or one group not physical distancing but the same group not being het up against say some thousand strong no physical distancing demonstration in Las Angeles? I think one should b able to support those BLM demonstrations in LA and condemn them for not physical distancing. Just like also being able to point out that the demonstrations in Portland (100plus days now) are both violent and peaceful and destructive to shopowners including BIPOC. More sanity in our media, please :3

Ritafee, I wonder about the math skills of the doctors you quote. 128,000 people in Canada have been diagnosed with Covid-19. Over 9000 died. That is over 7% or almost 30 times the rate they calculated. And this is in Canada with a robust healhcare system. Bulgaria has fascist leadership so I would not trust any information out of Bulgaria. There are many generators of false and misleading Information. Many of them claim amazing qualifications. Covid-19 is more dangerous than any of the flu epidemics we have experienced. Worse are the effects on many of the people who do not die.

I heard that yearly flu deaths arent actually counted but are really guessed at via an equation or am I wrong?

And @Mrs.Anteater, dont worry aboot convincing Rita--facts are the least convincing imho. We believe I think because something is Meaningful andor Purposeful. We arent rational beings. Which is both good and bad.

#MutualAid
#BeNotAfraid
#SystemicWhimsey
#JoyPrivilege

 

[Ritafee]

Because it's not as dangerous. And there's a vaccine that significantly lowers transmission. Covid is very dangerous for more people and there's no thoroughly tested vaccine and only a couple of promising treatments that are not readily available yet for severe cases.

How many people died from flu related illness last year in Canada?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

How many people died from flu related illness last year in Canada?

The death rate from influenza, in Canada, is 500-1500 deaths per year. Combined influenza and pneumonia cause up to 8000 deaths per year.

Influenza Resources | IPAC Canada

There have been 9100+ deaths from covid here in 7 months.

There have been 189K deaths from covid in 7 months in the US.

Burden of Influenza

Learn about how CDC estimates the burden of seasonal influenza in the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

12K to 60K annual deaths in the US from the flu. So, 3 times the number.

In Canada, we handled it better earlier on so our rates are lower, even per population. Where it killed the most people is where people couldn't or didn't distance and wear masks indoors around a cluster of other people.

 

[Ritafee]

There have been 9100+ deaths from covid here in 7 months.

Break that down into age/comorbitity/financial status/environment (hospital home institution)/access to health care.

 

[Ritafee]

Combined influenza and pneumonia cause up to 8000 deaths per year.

In 2019, there were 287,725 deaths reported in Canada from all causes.

Leading Causes Of Deaths In Canada

Rank	Cause	Number of Deaths
1	Malignant Neoplasms (Cancer)	79,084
2	Heart Diseases	51,396
3	Cerebrovascular Diseases	13,551
4	Accidents	12,524
5	Chronic Lower Respiratory Diseases	12,293
6	Diabetes Mellitus	6,838
7	Alzheimer's	6,521
8	Influenza and Pneumonia	6,235
9	Suicide	3,978
10	Chronic Liver Diseases and Cirrhosis	3,385

Lower respiratory infections (LRIs), inclusive of pneumonia, tuberculosis, influenza, bronchitis, bronchiolitis and others, accounted for 3.19 million deaths globally, according to a 2015 WHO report.

For LRIs, 1 death in every 100 deaths is seen among children below 15 years of age.

Pollution of indoor and outdoor air, and poor hygiene may all result in LRIs.

Past studies by the WHO reported that 36 percent of LRIs are caused by solid fuel pollution.

1 percent of respiratory illnesses are caused by outdoor air pollution.

In Europe, indoor air pollution from solid fuel use has been cited as accounting for 4.9 percent of all deaths, and 3.1 percent of losses in Disability-Adjusted Life Years for children aged less than 4 years old.

LRI diseases like pneumonia resulted in between 1.2 and 1.5 million children under the age of 5 dying, of whom 99 percent are found in developing countries.

Those statistics according to Health and Ecosystems: Analysis of Linkages.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

This is one new cause of death that has claimed way too many lives in a short time, around the world. It doesn't know borders so it needs barriers. Just because you think it's no big deal that it spreads and you think masks cramp your style too much, doesn't mean others are happy to drop dead from covid, for your personal individual freedom.