Can we please stop misusing the name "Karen"?

[ChemGal]

Did you read my entire post? I am in no way condoning the behaviours that lead to the label "Karen". What I am saying is that we can challenge that we can stand up to that behaviour by naming it instead of calling those who act that way by a so called fun and cute name.




I agree. We do need to stand up to bad behaviours.

I'm saying with the way everything get's labelled as 'Karen-behaviour' the world actually needs a fair bit more of it.
Earlier you had said

To be clear, the behaviour that gets a person labelled "Karen" is not okay. I do not think anyone here is disputing that.

I'm saying the behaviour that gets a person labelled as Karen is more than okay, it's needed.
It's not just the Amy Coopers of the world being labelled Karens. It's often working within a system to get things changed.

 

[ChemGal]

Some recent examples that I have done
Dealt with patient relations - got a call this month stating that the way Connect Care handled the biopsies was faulty and there are now 2 changes so that people actually get scheduled properly. Calling patient relations is such a Karen thing to do
Putting in a complaint about t911 failing? Yup that's a Karen - But you know let's ignore the fact that 911 failing someone can be deadly and hey, I'm at least in a position where I can phone people and communicate in the way they want to communicate.

The last time I saw something being labelled as a Karen behaviour? Asking people not a part of the community garden to move over a bit - most of the plots are with 'grow a row'.

 

[Mendalla]

The last time I saw something being labelled as a Karen behaviour? Asking people not a part of the community garden to move over a bit - most of the plots are with 'grow a row'.

Seems like a misuse of the misused term. Karen behaviour originally referred to situations like the white woman who reported the black birder after he complained about her dog not being leashed. I don't think it's just about being cranky or angry. There needs to be an element of entitlement, probably based on skin colour. "Entitled white woman" is basically what I think of as a Karen.

 

[ChemGal]

Seems like a misuse of the misused term. Karen behaviour originally referred to situations like the white woman who reported the black birder after he complained about her dog not being leashed. I don't think it's just about being cranky or angry. There needs to be an element of entitlement, probably based on skin colour. "Entitled white woman" is basically what I think of as a Karen.

I agree but it's what it's turned into. And entitled can be a fairly sexist aspect as to why. A woman who actually asserts herself instead of smiling shutting up and taking it? She must be an entitled whiny bitchy complainer.

 

[Mendalla]

I agree but it's what it's turned into. And entitled can be a fairly sexist aspect as to why. A woman who actually asserts herself instead of smiling shutting up and taking it? She must be an entitled whiny bitchy complainer.

And if people are using that way, they are just as wrong as if they called her "whiny, bitchy complainer" and it is all the more reason to stop its use.

If it is to be used at all, it should be for cases like the one I mentioned. Or the women who pulled guns on protesters recently. Not just because a woman is complaining or angry about something. Or, worse, because she is asserting herself.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

I agree but it's what it's turned into. And entitled can be a fairly sexist aspect as to why. A woman who actually asserts herself instead of smiling shutting up and taking it? She must be an entitled whiny bitchy complainer.

It's the kind of entitled white woman who "asserts herself" in an aggressive/ arrogant manner over something like a barista who accidentally put 1% instead of skim in their latte - and are more likely to behave in an especially difficult way - sometimes consciously sometimes not - if that person is a POC and or an immigrant.

 

[Mrs.Anteater]

”Karen” is a generalization and a judgement. Instead of criticizing a specific behaviour of a specific person, people now can call someone a name and make themselves feel better, because they are “ not like that”. Hardly useful for the cause and definitely not causing anyone to reflect on their own biases, because they are doing exactly what they are criticizing: Making a judgement. Increasing judgements about the “ other” group only leads to building walls, not to increase understanding. It seems to be the character of social media to nurture that kind of behaviour and thinking. Blessed be the one who doesn’t get caught in it.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Piety

 

[ChemGal]

It's the kind of entitled white woman who "asserts herself" in an aggressive/ arrogant manner over something like a barista who accidentally put 1% instead of skim in their latte - and are more likely to behave in an especially difficult way - sometimes consciously sometimes not - if that person is a POC and or an immigrant.

That's how it started it's expanded. Now the woman who wsks to speak to a manager because of an employee's racist behavior will be called a Karen too.

The name was inappropriate beforehand due to the stereotyping. Now the degree of sexism with it is higher than before.

 

[Northwind]

Anytime a white woman between a certain age is acting somewhere between being a doormat and protesting she's being called a Karen.

Only women of a certain age? What age would that be? It's also pretty sexist to suggest only women get such labels.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

That's how it started it's expanded. Now the woman who wsks to speak to a manager because of an employee's racist behavior will be called a Karen too.

The name was inappropriate beforehand due to the stereotyping. Now the degree of sexism with it is higher than before.

I haven't seen or heard in used that way. Maybe it was coopted by white conservatives where you are.

 

[ChemGal]

No we don’t need bitchy demanding white women complaining to the manager about god damn minutiae because they’re being spoiled little jerks who can’t wrap their heads around this stuff, nor any complaints about them! That’s not defensible. If they’re offended by calling out that behaviour with a joke, they need to grow the f*** up. Men or women need to stand up to real injustice, yes. They don’t need to be constantly making it about them, though. You, me, they, all of us. We all have work to do.

We all have work to do but you're not haopy about "bitchy demanding white women complaining" about something like racism as I gave as an example that you quoted?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Only women of a certain age? What age would that be? It's also pretty sexist to suggest only women get such labels.

The attitude that preceded the title and very much exists - is one identified as the experience of black people, especially black women, and the slaveowner's wife. A name that used to be used generically, was Miss Anne. Now, in 2020, it's Karen.

 

[ChemGal]

Only women of a certain age? What age would that be? It's also pretty sexist to suggest only women get such labels.

I'm not saying only women get such labels but it tends to happen much faster than men.
For the most part I would say the label is applied for to those in their 30s and 40s. It does happen outside of that but I haven't seen it for under 25 or over 70.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

We all have work to do but you're not haopy about "bitchy demanding white women complaining" about something like racism as I gave as an example that you quoted?

That's a few white conservatives coopting it. That's not how it's understood by most. That's not how black women use it.

 

[Northwind]

The discussion evolved since the initial post I read this afternoon. I'll respond to some comments

I'm saying the behaviour that gets a person labelled as Karen is more than okay, it's needed.
It's not just the Amy Coopers of the world being labelled Karens. It's often working within a system to get things changed.

Clearly you have a broader definition of "Karen". This broad definition is an example of why simply finding a frankly snarky mame is not useful.

Calling patient relations is such a Karen thing to do
Putting in a complaint about t911 failing? Yup that's a Karen

No, that's assertive. If someone gets a label for being assertive, especially if that person is a woman, that's wrong. The time for being "good girls", if there ever was one, is long past.

Seems like a misuse of the misused term. Karen behaviour originally referred to situations like the white woman who reported the black birder after he complained about her dog not being leashed. I don't think it's just about being cranky or angry. There needs to be an element of entitlement, probably based on skin colour. "Entitled white woman" is basically what I think of as a Karen.

That's my interpretation of the label.

A woman who actually asserts herself instead of smiling shutting up and taking it? She must be an entitled whiny bitchy complainer.

I certainly hope that stereotype is long gone. If not, if being assertive gets me called bitchy, so be it.

 

[ChemGal]

From wikipedia

As of 2020, the term was increasingly being used as a general-purpose term of disapproval for middle-aged white women.

 

[Northwind]

The attitude that preceded the title and very much exists - is one identified as the experience of black people, especially black women, and the slaveowner's wife. A name that used to be used generically, was Miss Anne. Now, in 2020, it's Karen.

The attitude may have preceded the label, and does need to be challenged. As we've seen here, there's more than one definition of the label floating around. How can that be useful? It only waters things down.

 

[ChemGal]

The discussion evolved since the initial post I read this afternoon. I'll respond to some comments



Clearly you have a broader definition of "Karen". This broad definition is an example of why simply finding a frankly snarky mame is not useful.

It's not my definition it's how it's being used.

 

[ChemGal]

I don't see a huge difference between this type of thinking and what the Karen meme has evolved into.

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