WE. What in earth is going on?

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Why the shock that Trudeau would accept a payoff for his family. The Liberal and the Conservative parties have ALWAYS been given gifts under the table. This goes back at least to John A. Macdonald. And exactly the same goes on with Democrats and Republicans in the U.S.

The super rich have ALWAYS done that in Canada and the U.S. They also give in grand style to fund those parties at election time. This isn't new. It goes back to George Washington in the U.S. - and almost as far back in Canada.

The very rich own those parties. And the Parties pay them back with lavish gifts of economic grants, with government contracts....
and so it goes. Just recently in New Brunswick, the Irvings got a huge contract to built some ships for the Canadian navy. The government didn't ask anybody else - just the Irvings. Why was there no competition? It's no secret. The Liberal Party that gave out that contract has almost certainly recieved "gifts" in exchange for being nice to Mr.Irving.

That's why you don't see parties like the NDP scoring big in elections. Parties like that refuse to accept such payoffs. Result? Honest parties who don't ask for or accept corporate payoffs have far, far less money than the corrupt kissups of the rich we call Liberals, Conservatives, Republicans and Democrats.
And that's why, in almost every election, we vote for those who plunder us.
 
Graeme, I'm totally with you right now, and I'm personally disgusted at the entire Trudeau family.

That said, largely because said Trudeau family member squashed any sort of electoral reform, I think we're largely screwed except if we can try to keep minority governments the "norm". I'll never vote Liberal again federally thanks to this clusterfuck. And my huge, enormous, lady-crush on Kathleen Wynne notwithstanding, not provincially, either.
 
Alas! We are getting worse. the earliest humans of hundreds of thousands of years ago, the ones that looked remarkably like apes, had brains larger than other animals. At each stage of their development these brains got bigger, reaching us - homo sapiens. These larger brains increasingly caused them to control their environment - as we do now in a very advanced way with our development of mining, of controllling other animals (like cows, pigs,, sheep and, in our most recent period to control earlier human types. In the process of this, they killed their earlier types. They also used their increasingly strong brains to control each other. This led to the organization and control of societies. The force that developed out of that was the rise of controllers who controlled the majority of homo sapiens This process happened 4,000 to 5,000 years ago with the rise of rulers such as emperors who controlled and exploited the rest of us.
This still happens. But the controllers now come in the form of the super-rich who control us and most of our governments. Almost all wars are fought for the benefit of the super rich. That was true of both world wars,Korea,, Latin America, the middle east....
The growth of human population could still be counted in the high millions a couple of hundred years ago. Today, we are into the billions. And the price of this spread of humans has been a rapid destruction of wild life on this planet. It has also meant the destruction of massive forests, wetlands... This destroys the quality of the air we breath, the survival of animal life and, ulimately, the survival of humans. Africa,for example, cannot survive it's spread of cities and farms. The super rich, like the emperors and kings and queens before them, are consumed by greed. They kill those who get in their way. That's what almost all of our wars are really about.
 
Corruption is an aggressive attribute that leads to self limiting of everything.

Large powers encourage corruption for reason unknown ... as logic and intellect is not well received in corrupt states! Thus LOGOS fails ... pure fallacy ... there was little prior interest ... only great desire on this side of the nebulus ... nebuli? Twas and is dark ...
 
It's not just us humans who have emotional ties to family. So do most creatures. But we don't allow that for pigs, cows, chiickens, sheep, etc. When pigs for example, give birth, the piglets are immediaely taken away, caged, and fed until it is time to kill them. Imagine that being done to your child. Very soon after the piglet is taken away, it's mother is impregnated again - often by artificial means. Animals in nature do have emotions, family feelings, relationships with other animals of their type....... But in captivity, they exist only to breed, and, in some cases,to be crammed into uncomfortable cages with what are strangers until they are big enough to kill.
Our own predecessors - monkeys and gorillas - associate themselves with mothers, fathers, children, neighbours just as we do. That's why the keeping of pet monkeys is not permitted in some jurisdictions. It's cruel.
Oh, and apes in general are capable of communicating with others of their type - just as we do. Monkeys, for example, can warn others if they see hawks circling above.
As to living with humans-----how would feel if you got picked up by a tribe of monkeys to become their pet?
 
The downside, of course, is that real people and real lives are being affected.


Keep in mind that those people had nothing to do with the legitimacy of how the contract was awarded. They applied for the jobs in good faith.

I'm not saying that this is a reason to proceed with the contract, but that these political scandals don't necessarily just affect "elites".
 
The latest WE story is firing of hundreds of people. This group thqt was the only one to give away a billon dollars, in order to earn 19 million them selves didn’t really have the people to do the job. So they hired them

nothing makes sense with this except that Trudeau and WE are so closely linked that he can’t see the forest for the trees..

how is our untitled, privileged PM is now facing his third ethics investigation What does he not see? It is the liberal blindness. What they want is naturally best for the country

he definitely needs some level headed advisors who can say things like

no sir, you can’t vacation on an island as a gift from an organization that we give millions to
No sir, dressing up in Indian fancy clothes does not make for a good look
no sir, you can t lean on the AG to do your bidding For any reason
no sir you should never wear black face
no sir, you can’t grope a reporter even if you don’t think it was groping
no sir, you can’t give a billon dollars to your pals to hand out
no sir, we don’t pay volunteers
no sir, you can’t vote on a motion where your buddies stand to earn 19 million
no sir, you can’t promise electoral reform but change your mind when first last the post starts working for you again

am I forgetting anything?
 
Mendalla said:
The downside, of course, is that real people and real lives are being affected.


Keep in mind that those people had nothing to do with the legitimacy of how the contract was awarded. They applied for the jobs in good faith.

I'm not saying that this is a reason to proceed with the contract, but that these political scandals don't necessarily just affect "elites".
Click to expand...

I agree and yet, this organization that was so wonderful that only they could handle this, in fact had to hire people to handle it

what the hell
 
Lastpointe said:
I agree and yet, this organization that was so wonderful that only they could handle this, in fact had to hire people to handle it

what the hell
Click to expand...

Any organization suddenly taking on a $19M project to administer a $200M program is likely going to be hiring. That's part of that $19M administration budget. No for-profit or non-profit corporation that I know of has that much slack. I imagine the government would have been hiring or shuffling staff around, too, if they ran it themselves.
 
Lastpointe said:
Maybe but that has never been stated by anyone. It was always that they are the ones
Click to expand...

Doesn't mean they had the staffing resources, just the expertise at organizing. I am quite prepared to accept that they could well be the right organization. My problem is with how it was awarded. There was a distinct lack of transparency and the Trudeau family connections mean that such transparency was a must in this case.
 
Waterfall said:
Is anyone in Justins family allowed to speak anywhere and be paid?
Click to expand...

But what they did is not the problem here. The problem here is that the organization that paid them subsequently got a sole-sourced government contract and Trudeau apparently did not recuse himself from the discussion. Margaret and Alexandre did nothing wrong in my eyes. It was Justin who messed up here. Had the contract been awarded by the civil service of the relevant ministry with him at arm's or further length, there wouldn't be a problem with the family having history with the organization. Had their been a competitive RFC process with carefully chosen criteria used to evaluate the responses, there wouldn't have been a problem. But this contract was apparently awarded after internal, in camera discussions from which neither Trudeau nor Bill Morneau, whose daughter is working on an internship at WE, recused themselves. Trudeau's family did nothing wrong. Morneau's family did nothing wrong. The wrong, if there is one, was in the hands of the PM and Finance Minister not recognizing the potential conflict of interest or recognizing it and not behaving in an appropriate manner.
 
As far as scandals go, the only people who would’ve benefitted are young people starting out in life. I don’t think anybody was going to get rich from the decision to give money to WE.
 
Look - the reality is that ALL Liberal and Conservative politicians are open to 'gifts'. and both of those parties get most of their election money as gifts from corporate bosses. In return, they vote in lavish gifts for the super wealthy. That's true for both of those parties - and it always has been.
The NDP loses elections precisely because they don't get those sums of money from the super wealthy.
That's why we permit stunning practices like handing out gifts for the super rich - allowing them to avoid taxes, a practice that amounts to billions of dollars every year that the super rich are allowed to hide away. And that's why the rest of us are forced to pay extra taxes to make up for that. It's also why we can never afford proper spending for education, for food and housing for the homeless....That's why, even as the super rich in Canada and the U.S. are still enjoying high profits while millions have to settle for lost jobs, lost homes, hunger....That's why university education is so expensive.

The dominant groups in our societies are the corporation bosses. They are the ones who make it possible for Conservatives and Liberals to win elections.
There's a reason the NDP and other parties can't win at election time. They can get election money only from the rest of us - and that's not much. Canada and the U.S. are NOT democracies. They never have been. We have always been bought by the very wealthy. I know most people don't like the think that, but it's true. For all his blather about democracy, that's not what George Washington was all about. And that's not what the American revolution was about. Washington had nothing but contempt for the poor. Indeed, in the elections he won, large numbers of the poor (male) were not permitted to vote - because they were poor.
The American revolution had nothing to do with democracy. The purpose of it was to free the American whites so the ccould steal the Indian lands of the western U.S. That's why the U.S.entered Indiian wars, so that whites could murder the Indians and steal their lands. That's why Hitler was a great admirer of George Washington. (Check out Hitler's Mein Kampf for evidence of this. It was Washington's policy of mass murder of American Indians that was the model for Hitler's holocaust of Jews.) Subsequent presidents continued that policy right up to (hold it) 1923.

For the super rich, all that mattered was getting richer -and doing it on the basis of mass murder (as in middle east oild fields) on murderous assault by bombing (as in Korea, Vietnam, virtually all of Latin America....

That is a pattern that showed up early in Christianity with Kings and emperors taking the lead. In the 19th century, the super rich took over control. This really took off with the British Empire which murdered (nobody knows a precise figure) some 400 million people. Hitler was a sweetheart compared to Briitish capitalists. From 1900 to today, the American smpire has replaced the British one. The starting points were the invasion of the Phillipines (as the entree into the Asian countries the U.S. bosses want to control.) They began the many invasions of Latin America at the same time. The purpose was - and is - to plunder latin america for the benefit of American billionaires. There, as always, the killing was done by American Christians so the land could be occupied and exploited by American billionaires. That's why children in Venezuela are deliberately being starved to death. That's why the CIA (an American organization of hired killers from all over the world murdered at least 200,000 Guatemalans. The emphasis, by the way was on Christians - expecially priests, nuns and missionaries.

The leader of the CIA at the time was George Bush Sr. (an ardent Christian church goer.)

This never made our news media of North America. But the National Film board made a movie about it.
Later, George Bush Jr. who is a ardent and regular Christian church-goer, opened an illegal war in Afghanistan - to which Canada did it's bit by sending Canadians to kill and be killed so that American billionaires could steal the extensive resources of that country just as they do in the middle east.

For at least 1500 years, the west has been growing based on mass murder and theft. "Thou shalt not kill." We are now dangerously close to a nuclear war. Like all wars, our news media will tell us this is the fight evil. In fact, we are the evil.
Evil is built into us humans. That's why we have always lived in murder and plunder - with sundays off to go to church.

Luckily, our churches have always kissed up to our murderous ways.

So much for any wimps who say "Thou Shalt Not Kill." The reality is that the U.S. today has the biggest "Defence" (murder) budget in history. The only righteousness we and our churches know is self righteousness.
 
Graeme Decarie said:
Look - the reality is that ALL Liberal and Conservative politicians are open to 'gifts'. and both of those parties get most of their election money as gifts from corporate bosses. In return, they vote in lavish gifts for the super wealthy. That's true for both of those parties - and it always has been.
The NDP loses elections precisely because they don't get those sums of money from the super wealthy.
That's why we permit stunning practices like handing out gifts for the super rich - allowing them to avoid taxes, a practice that amounts to billions of dollars every year that the super rich are allowed to hide away. And that's why the rest of us are forced to pay extra taxes to make up for that. It's also why we can never afford proper spending for education, for food and housing for the homeless....That's why, even as the super rich in Canada and the U.S. are still enjoying high profits while millions have to settle for lost jobs, lost homes, hunger....That's why university education is so expensive.

The dominant groups in our societies are the corporation bosses. They are the ones who make it possible for Conservatives and Liberals to win elections.
There's a reason the NDP and other parties can't win at election time. They can get election money only from the rest of us - and that's not much. Canada and the U.S. are NOT democracies. They never have been. We have always been bought by the very wealthy. I know most people don't like the think that, but it's true. For all his blather about democracy, that's not what George Washington was all about. And that's not what the American revolution was about. Washington had nothing but contempt for the poor. Indeed, in the elections he won, large numbers of the poor (male) were not permitted to vote - because they were poor.
The American revolution had nothing to do with democracy. The purpose of it was to free the American whites so the ccould steal the Indian lands of the western U.S. That's why the U.S.entered Indiian wars, so that whites could murder the Indians and steal their lands. That's why Hitler was a great admirer of George Washington. (Check out Hitler's Mein Kampf for evidence of this. It was Washington's policy of mass murder of American Indians that was the model for Hitler's holocaust of Jews.) Subsequent presidents continued that policy right up to (hold it) 1923.

For the super rich, all that mattered was getting richer -and doing it on the basis of mass murder (as in middle east oild fields) on murderous assault by bombing (as in Korea, Vietnam, virtually all of Latin America....

That is a pattern that showed up early in Christianity with Kings and emperors taking the lead. In the 19th century, the super rich took over control. This really took off with the British Empire which murdered (nobody knows a precise figure) some 400 million people. Hitler was a sweetheart compared to Briitish capitalists. From 1900 to today, the American smpire has replaced the British one. The starting points were the invasion of the Phillipines (as the entree into the Asian countries the U.S. bosses want to control.) They began the many invasions of Latin America at the same time. The purpose was - and is - to plunder latin america for the benefit of American billionaires. There, as always, the killing was done by American Christians so the land could be occupied and exploited by American billionaires. That's why children in Venezuela are deliberately being starved to death. That's why the CIA (an American organization of hired killers from all over the world murdered at least 200,000 Guatemalans. The emphasis, by the way was on Christians - expecially priests, nuns and missionaries.

The leader of the CIA at the time was George Bush Sr. (an ardent Christian church goer.)

This never made our news media of North America. But the National Film board made a movie about it.
Later, George Bush Jr. who is a ardent and regular Christian church-goer, opened an illegal war in Afghanistan - to which Canada did it's bit by sending Canadians to kill and be killed so that American billionaires could steal the extensive resources of that country just as they do in the middle east.

For at least 1500 years, the west has been growing based on mass murder and theft. "Thou shalt not kill." We are now dangerously close to a nuclear war. Like all wars, our news media will tell us this is the fight evil. In fact, we are the evil.
Evil is built into us humans. That's why we have always lived in murder and plunder - with sundays off to go to church.

Luckily, our churches have always kissed up to our murderous ways.

So much for any wimps who say "Thou Shalt Not Kill." The reality is that the U.S. today has the biggest "Defence" (murder) budget in history. The only righteousness we and our churches know is self righteousness.
Click to expand...
If it wasnt the USA doing it, it would be another country doing it....and Im not saying that to justify anyone doing it. Just saying, how does the world get around that?
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
As far as scandals go, the only people who would’ve benefitted are young people starting out in life. I don’t think anybody was going to get rich from the decision to give money to WE.
Click to expand...

no body is getting rich except the founders of WE. They have reaped several single source small contracts from loyalty to Justin. And this one was paying them $19,000,000. That is a lot of zeros. What would you do to help your friends if they gave you that amount

the info ad they made , exalting Justin , is almost the worst of things. It really looks like the liberal party or at least Justin and WE were in each other’s pockets

if the civil service can handle billions of dollars in relief funding I am pretty sure they could have downloaded this to volunteer Canada, the United way or some such organization



it sticks. It reeks of Justin feeling entitled to his entitlements He is a rich mans son who honestly doesn’t get it

and oddly Canadians , who espouse to care about society and the little guy don’t care. They keep voting him in
 
Graeme Decarie said:
Look - the reality is that ALL Liberal and Conservative politicians are open to 'gifts'. and both of those parties get most of their election money as gifts from corporate bosses. In return, they vote in lavish gifts for the super wealthy. That's true for both of those parties - and it always has been.
The NDP loses elections precisely because they don't get those sums of money from the super wealthy.
That's why we permit stunning practices like handing out gifts for the super rich - allowing them to avoid taxes, a practice that amounts to billions of dollars every year that the super rich are allowed to hide away. And that's why the rest of us are forced to pay extra taxes to make up for that. It's also why we can never afford proper spending for education, for food and housing for the homeless....That's why, even as the super rich in Canada and the U.S. are still enjoying high profits while millions have to settle for lost jobs, lost homes, hunger....That's why university education is so expensive.

The dominant groups in our societies are the corporation bosses. They are the ones who make it possible for Conservatives and Liberals to win elections.
There's a reason the NDP and other parties can't win at election time. They can get election money only from the rest of us - and that's not much.
Click to expand...
So am I to understand there are different limits for election spending for the two major parties but the NDP as a third party has a lower limit and cant accept gifts from corporations?
 
Lastpointe said:
no body is getting rich except the founders of WE.

if the civil service can handle billions of dollars in relief funding I am pretty sure they could have downloaded this to volunteer Canada, the United way or some such organization
Click to expand...
Do you know what the WE CEO and executives would have made compared to the United Way CEO's or other organizations? And what percentage would have actually reached the students if for example the students were given minimum wage across the board to any of those organizations as a choice?
 
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