Novel Coronavirus

[EasternOrthodox]

Different underlying health issues may need different treatment - but race is only a factor insofar as how well people are being treated already and the safety of their socioeconomic circumstances.

Nicotine in the lungs providing some protection against catching covid is odd - it's the nicotine doing it, apparently. It was kind of funny when a smoker said to me "Finally, we get an advantage for something!" When I hide in the alley or in the spot where the supermarket staff smokes, and have one - if anyone shoots me a dirty look I can say it's for covid prevention. I have a Nicorette inhaler (it's not combustible or heated or vaped - you breathe in but no smoke or vapour comes out - sort of like how an asthma disk inhaler works, pellets with the substance in them are punctured and that's what gets inhaled) that probably helps by keeping my nicotine levels up, too.


However if a smoker, former or current, does get it they will likely get more sick due to damage in the lungs already present. Especially if they have COPD.

The nicotine thing is weird.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

The prime minister of the UK nearly died of Covid. He’s only in his 50s. He was very ill. Apparently a death notice was drafted.

But he squeaked through. Prince Charles, heir to the throne, also got Covid. He survived without hospitalization. it did hit him so badly for some unknown reason.

Here‘s the story of a 71-year old scientis who teaches in London and worked on Ebola. Peter Piot. He survived but weeks later he is not the same. He is considering that in some cases one may be left with permanent problems. Of course, he is an old man.

‘Finally, a virus got me.' Scientist who fought Ebola and HIV reflects on facing death from COVID-19

Top virologist Peter Piot spent 1 week at a London hospital in April and has been recovering at home since

www.sciencemag.org

All these men are firmly in an upper socioeconomic class.

They may have been in poor health already for many reasons. They are seniors. They may have genetic predispositions, themselves, to heart disease or other illness that weakens their immune systems. Maybe they don’t get enough fruit and veggies besides jam and over-boiled peas and no sun and little exercise because it rains too much and they drive everywhere. Boris Johnson had it, and was hospitalized, but he doesn’t look to be a picture of perfect health. Still, none of them died. If they were from poor, oppressed communities and without adequate healthcare they would be far more likely to be dead right now. I don’t hear you asking if they might be genetically predisposed to getting more sick because it’s upper class white British people who are genetically inferior, therefore they are at higher risk.

Taking a couple of wealthy senior Britons as examples and then using that as proof that socioeconomics isn’t the main problem facing black communities dying from covid is a racist misrepresentation...and people, perhaps yourself, parrot it unknowingly, subconsciously. It’s also called the fallacy of dramatic instance or something like that. A social fallacy used to explain away social problems (in broader society).

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

In UK it’s black people, Asian people (east and south Asian), and people of mixed ethnicities who are more likely to die from covid 19. ...non-whites in the UK are more likely to die of covid. That doesn’t surprise me one bit, and the reason is not genetic. It’s that they are more likely to live in denser, poorer areas, and live and work in exhausting, crowded conditions. And that’s due to long, long, long-standing systemic racism there...the same racism they carried with them to the places they colonized.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

p.s. I say that as someone whose grandfathers ancestors on my mom’s side were all British, and her mother’s were British and Irish. Scottish and German on my dad’s side. And everyone was white. I definitely had early colonizers in my family background. And I think genetics explaining away inequity is always bulls**t.

 

[ChemGal]

They may have been in poor health already for many reasons. They are seniors. They may have genetic predispositions, themselves, to heart disease or other illness that weakens their immune systems. Maybe they don’t get enough fruit and veggies besides jam and over-boiled peas and no sun and little exercise because it rains too much and they drive everywhere. Boris Johnson had it, and was hospitalized, but he doesn’t look to be a picture of perfect health. Still, none of them died. If they were from poor, oppressed communities and without adequate healthcare they would be far more likely to be dead right now. I don’t hear you asking if they might be genetically predisposed to getting more sick because it’s upper class white British people who are genetically inferior, therefore they are at higher risk.

Taking a couple of wealthy senior Britons as examples and then using that as proof that socioeconomics isn’t the main problem facing black communities dying from covid is a racist misrepresentation...and people, perhaps yourself, parrot it unknowingly, subconsciously. It’s also called the fallacy of dramatic instance or something like that. A social fallacy used to explain away social problems (in broader society).

The only one who has brought up genetic inferiority here is you.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

The only one who has brought up genetic inferiority here is you.

Can you still not see that that’s what focusing genetic basis for covid deaths? It keeps people disadvantaged and oppressed. It’s similar to IQ and saying black people are less intelligent when their learning environments and opportunities are what’s worse off due to systemic inequality, not genetics...measuring genetic susceptibility to a pandemic by race is as bad as measuring IQ by race. That kind of thinking has never led anywhere good. .. and because you can’t measure intelligence about “knowledge” of topics that people have not been taught, so IQ tests by race are bulls**t.

 

[ChemGal]

Can you still not see that that’s what focusing genetic basis for covid deaths does. It’s similar to IQ and saying black people are less intelligent when their learning environments are what’s worse off due to systemic inequality not genetics, and because you can’t measure intelligence about “knowledge” of topics that people have not been taught.

No.
Genes can very much be a factor with surviving situations.
Some genes are pretty shitty genes and one would be stretched to come up with when one would have an advantage due to those particular ones. Others can be advantageous for some situations and harmful for others.

Overall, all people have genes that would be beneficial and ones that would be detrimental for various situations.

I'm aware I have a pretty crappy gene that increases my risk of mortality in a number of situations - it sounds like you think I'm genetically inferior due to that.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

No.
Genes can very much be a factor with surviving situations.
Some genes are pretty s**tty genes and one would be stretched to come up with when one would have an advantage due to those particular ones. Others can be advantageous for some situations and harmful for others.

Overall, all people have genes that would be beneficial and ones that would be detrimental for various situations.

I'm aware I have a pretty crappy gene that increases my risk of mortality in a number of situations - it sounds like you think I'm genetically inferior due to that.

How did this become about you?

Okay then...let’s take you as an example. If you were black and poor living in poor area in a US major city, you would not be alive right now, chances are. Because that’s not the case, you do pretty well, and seem to have a pretty good quality of life, lots of support, and good medical care (not perfect - it should be free including meds - but good enough to find your disease and get you the right kind of treatment that you and chemguy can afford while still owning a home and not living in poverty) despite your health challenges.

It’s not genetic inferiority or shitty genes making the difference... it’s systemic prejudice. Check your privilege.

 

[ChemGal]

How did this become about you?

Okay then...let’s take you as an example. If you were black and poor living in poor area a US major city, you would not be alive right now, chances are. Because that’s not the case, you do pretty well, and seem to have a pretty good quality of life, lots of support, and good medical care (not perfect - it should be free including meds - but good enough to find your disease and get you the right kind of treatment that you and chemguy can afford while still owning a home and not living in poverty -) despite your health challenges.

It’s not genetic inferiority it’s systemic prejudice.

You're the one labelling people as genetically inferior and applying that based on when we discuss who is at risk with COVID-19.

If the hypertension hypothesis was correct it doesn't make people genetically inferior or superior. It means they have an advantage with surviving those conditions but disadvantaged with the risk of hypertension. And that's such a small part, even if there was only an advantage or a disadvantage with such genes, overall those people aren't genetically better or worse.

And as for the medical care - REALLY? Have you paid any attention to the s**t that I've been through and I still have a bunch of unexplained stuff.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

“Racism is a pre-existing condition” sums it up.

Black people are dying from COVID-19 at higher rates because racism is a preexisting condition.

The coronavirus pandemic is no "great equalizer," says epidemiologist Camara Jones.

www.motherjones.com

 

[Mrs.Anteater]

It would be interesting what the numbers in Canada are. In NS, 42 of 48 deaths were in one nursing home. I don’t think that race was a factor, but of course, age and pre existing conditions were.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

You're the one labelling people as genetically inferior and applying that based on when we discuss who is at risk with COVID-19.

If the hypertension hypothesis was correct it doesn't make people genetically inferior or superior. It means they have an advantage with surviving those conditions but disadvantaged with the risk of hypertension. And that's such a small part, even if there was only an advantage or a disadvantage with such genes, overall those people aren't genetically better or worse.

And as for the medical care - REALLY? Have you paid any attention to the s**t that I've been through and I still have a bunch of unexplained stuff.

I know Chemgal. I’m not saying everything is easy for you. But if you were black living in a black community without proper support, money, housing or healthcare you would be much much worse off. Just like I would be, even though I find my living situation bad right now...I think my survival rate would be waay decreased if I lived in the inner city of a major US city with even fewer supports and no healthcare.

 

[ChemGal]

I know Chemgal. I’m not saying everything is easy for you. But if you were black living in a black community without proper support, money, housing or healthcare you would be much much worse off. Just like I would be, even though I find my living situation bad right now...I think my survival rate would be waay decreased if I lived in the inner city of a major US city with even fewer supports and no healthcare.

You're calling it good medical care. I have to fight for so much. I know it could be worse, but it's far from good care. I'm done with you.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Maybe they don’t get enough fruit and veggies besides jam and over-boiled peas and no sun and little exercise because it rains too much and they drive everywhere.

That is a very dated, and wrong comment. It's insulting to Brits, too, who are very cool people, and a LOT less racist than most of their former colonies. Poor is poor, and they have poor, but it's probably less racist than here, in fact.

The British diet is probably better than ours, and MUCH better than that of the U.S. And "drive everywhere"? Really, this is a country of walkers/hikers. Are you confusing countries to some extent? I hang out there a lot. Good food, less driving, better/nicer grocery stores with nice/r stuff and pretty equivalent prices. And the cheese, OMG.

 

[ChemGal]

Testing just keeps expanding here, they are covering more for those who are asymptomatic now although not so much for my city, but cases overall are low here.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

That is a very dated, and wrong comment. It's insulting to Brits, too, who are very cool people, and a LOT less racist than most of their former colonies. Poor is poor, and they have poor, but it's probably less racist than here, in fact.

The British diet is probably better than ours, and MUCH better than that of the U.S. And "drive everywhere"? Really, this is a country of walkers/hikers. Are you confusing countries to some extent? I hang out there a lot. Good food, less driving, better/nicer grocery stores with nice/r stuff and pretty equivalent prices. And the cheese, OMG.

It was sarcasm. I was stereotyping with sarcasm to make a point - it kind of relates to the Vit D comment about ppl with dark skin too...attempting to say that British in rainy places are just as at risk for Vit D deficiency, whether one needs to get 10 or 20 minutes of sun for a few days every week is irrelevant. And, I have British "genes" and likely some of whatever predispositions that come with that...but nobody mentions that.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

They may have been in poor health already for many reasons. They are seniors. They may have genetic predispositions, themselves, to heart disease or other illness that weakens their immune systems. Maybe they don’t get enough fruit and veggies besides jam and over-boiled peas and no sun and little exercise because it rains too much and they drive everywhere. Boris Johnson had it, and was hospitalized, but he doesn’t look to be a picture of perfect health. Still, none of them died. If they were from poor, oppressed communities and without adequate healthcare they would be far more likely to be dead right now. I don’t hear you asking if they might be genetically predisposed to getting more sick because it’s upper class white British people who are genetically inferior, therefore they are at higher risk.

Taking a couple of wealthy senior Britons as examples and then using that as proof that socioeconomics isn’t the main problem facing black communities dying from covid is a racist misrepresentation...and people, perhaps yourself, parrot it unknowingly, subconsciously. It’s also called the fallacy of dramatic instance or something like that. A social fallacy used to explain away social problems (in broader society).

But nobody got angry when it was suggested that black people are more likely to be Vit D deficient and make that about being black. It was okay to point out their genetics and reasons why they may be more prone. The systemic inequality that causes poor nutrition and poor public health epidemics in US black communities is real - but it's not okay to suggest that decadence and convenience, could affect the immune systems of those individuals...if they are upper-crust British? That's "racist"?

It was okay to blame being black for getting covid but not point out any reasons why those British people might've gotten sick.

It was irony Kay. A couple of people here totally missed the point. Whatever.

 

[BetteTheRed]

You don't seem to be taking genetic differences between populations seriously, either. I'm also not just talking about genetic populations. There are apparently some very different effects that occur as side effects of this virus depending on age. There's a wyrd reaction simililar to Kawasaki syndrome in a sub-population of pre-pubescent children. CHEO doctors on alert for mysterious COVID-19-related illness in children

Interesting factoid, and this is important. Inuit, who you mentioned, are genetically adapted to get their vegetables via seal fat. If you or I tried that, we'd be dead from malnutrition within fairly short order.

Sometimes, it's important to know what population a person comes from to determine treatment plans. As a general rule, for ALL diseases.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

That is a very dated, and wrong comment. It's insulting to Brits, too, who are very cool people, and a LOT less racist than most of their former colonies. Poor is poor, and they have poor, but it's probably less racist than here, in fact.

The British diet is probably better than ours, and MUCH better than that of the U.S. And "drive everywhere"? Really, this is a country of walkers/hikers. Are you confusing countries to some extent? I hang out there a lot. Good food, less driving, better/nicer grocery stores with nice/r stuff and pretty equivalent prices. And the cheese, OMG.

I know. I used to watch Jamie Oliver when I had cable.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

You don't seem to be taking genetic differences between populations seriously, either. I'm also not just talking about genetic populations. There are apparently some very different effects that occur as side effects of this virus depending on age. There's a wyrd reaction simililar to Kawasaki syndrome in a sub-population of pre-pubescent children. CHEO doctors on alert for mysterious COVID-19-related illness in children

Interesting factoid, and this is important. Inuit, who you mentioned, are genetically adapted to get their vegetables via seal fat. If you or I tried that, we'd be dead from malnutrition within fairly short order.

Sometimes, it's important to know what population a person comes from to determine treatment plans. As a general rule, for ALL diseases.

No, I'm not - for this pandemic it's clear that the racial differences for survival are due to systemic racism.