12 killed in shooting at French satirical magazine
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Hermann
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Yes, I'm not dead serious, either. 
And that's what's so creepy about these mad zealots: They are deadly serious! Maybe satire is the best way to expose and counteract such madness. Maybe if satirical critique had been permitted in Nazi Germany, my father would not have become a Nazi, and WWII and the Holocaust would not have happened?
And that's what's so creepy about these mad zealots: They are deadly serious! Maybe satire is the best way to expose and counteract such madness. Maybe if satirical critique had been permitted in Nazi Germany, my father would not have become a Nazi, and WWII and the Holocaust would not have happened?
chansen
Had a point all along
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The National Post published the new cover.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/0...or-whats-likely-to-be-its-biggest-issue-ever/
Good on the NP.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/0...or-whats-likely-to-be-its-biggest-issue-ever/
Good on the NP.
Delightful Life
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Yes, I'm not dead serious, either.
And that's what's so creepy about these mad zealots: They are deadly serious! Maybe satire is the best way to expose and counteract such madness. Maybe if satirical critique had been permitted in Nazi Germany, my father would not have become a Nazi, and WWII and the Holocaust would not have happened?
indeed -- 'zealot' = one who can't see outside one's own BS so much that all they see is the bit of dried narcissus stuck up their fundament :3
humour is part of the mystical experience -- part of the toolkit to help to get people out of their heads & their BS -- part of which involves 'hey, i'm not a self in the unchangeable sense of identity bit...woo, this is fun...'
Jesus' one flaw was that he wasn't able to make people laugh enough I think--too soon?
Misread.
Graeme Decarie
Well-Known Member
It's wrong to blame religions for what people do. Certainly, Christians have a long record of supporting violence. In the US it took the form of manifest destiny which justified the slaughter of native peoples, and then the invasions of Canada and Mexico. Today, it takes the form of "American exceptionalism" which supports the view that the US can do whatever it wants, without regard for law, for the UN, for anything. It's widely, even generally, accepted that God wants the US to rule the world.
As for Muslims, they've been remarkably patient. We've been killing them and destroying their societies since Napoleon invaded Egypt. And they have reacted only in the last 40 years or so. The problem with religions is not that they're wrong - but that they are made up of people.
I very much fear that the reaction we're watching now is being orchestrated - and that big money and powerful people are involved. With the full cooperation of the press, we are being set up for a major war. And it has nothing to do with freedom of speech or with satire.
As for Muslims, they've been remarkably patient. We've been killing them and destroying their societies since Napoleon invaded Egypt. And they have reacted only in the last 40 years or so. The problem with religions is not that they're wrong - but that they are made up of people.
I very much fear that the reaction we're watching now is being orchestrated - and that big money and powerful people are involved. With the full cooperation of the press, we are being set up for a major war. And it has nothing to do with freedom of speech or with satire.
Graeme Decarie
Well-Known Member
By the way, I seen many of the cartoons. They are NOT satire. They are simply loutish. Hebdo Charlie is much like the tabs in the supermarkets - designed for morons. And done that way because there's a big, moron market.
chansen
Had a point all along
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The quality is not the issue. That you don't like it is not the issue. I don't like it either, and that still isn't the issue. The issue is whether or not they should be allowed to produce their paper and mock Islam and indeed Christianity, Judaism, the government, other countries, and basically anyone they choose. And I think the resounding answer is that they should.
chansen
Had a point all along
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Cute meme generator image, but I don't think this is Kony all over again. If the excuse these religious extremist groups are using is that someone dared publish mocking images of their prophet, then let's saturate the public sphere with images of Muhammad until it's commonplace and no one cares any more.
You are free to let your life be constrained by your belief system. You have no right to have your belief system constrain the lives of others. If you're offended, no one really cares. There are bigger issues in the world than your manufactured offense because you saw a cartoon you didn't like.
Delightful Life
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In that case it stops being a religion in the sense of belief in a supernatural g_d which is what agnostics like richard dawkins & theists like Panentheism have issue with & it becomes something greater and much, much better -- it becomes a nondogmatic way of life, not in the sense of becoming perfect but in the sense of being more harmonious with existing in the real world.
And that's what atheists and theists alike are striving for -- no more blind faith but a world where everyone is involved.
Delightful Life
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and after all, why should we keep track of everyone's sense of offense outside of normal politeness of course? that way lies madness
better, i think, to teach people to better able to mind their own minds, help break the social and mental etc chains that enslave people to themselves and etc and also enable the means globally for people to flourish
qwerty
Rest In Peace
"Al-Qaeda wants to mentally colonize French Muslims, but faces a wall of disinterest. But if it can get non-Muslim French to be beastly to ethnic Muslims on the grounds that they are Muslims, it can start creating a common political identity around grievance against discrimination."
http://www.juancole.com/2015/01/sharpening-contradictions-satirists.html
http://www.juancole.com/2015/01/sharpening-contradictions-satirists.html
Delightful Life
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life on Earth: Game of Thrones :3
who wants to be Tyrion Lannister?
keep 'em comin -- all these interpretations are great :3
who wants to be Tyrion Lannister?
keep 'em comin -- all these interpretations are great :3
chansen
Had a point all along
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Actually, it's even worse for Islamic terrorists in France. Many Muslims who have immigrated to France are only nominally religious. What happened to Christians in France is happening to Muslims. The country is one of the most secular in Europe, besides the Scandinavians.
Graeme Decarie
Well-Known Member
1. No country in the world has free speech. No country ever has. The press is using a grand-sounding word to get us babbling about our rights and freedoms.
2, Hebdo is a cheap, low-quality tab. It writes stuff to play to bigotry and to satisfy hatreds.
3. This is not about religion. It's not about freedom. We are being manipulated. For Christ's sake, if I may say so, one of the world leaders who was there to protest in favour of freedom and all the good things was Netanyahu who has abused the legal rights and has murdered and robbed Palestinians. The righteous Obama has defended Netanyahu on that issue - and has done his own share of murdering (and it is a larger number that a dozen cartoonists.)
4. The killings were not done by Islam. They were done by a sect somewhat like Baptists. And at that they were responding to years, almost two hundred years, of killing of Muslims by Christians. (Baptists don't have any such excuse for their extremism.)
5. The whole world is changing and very, very quickly. China and Russia, by no means old friends, have formed an alliance in response to aggression from the west, notably from the US.. That alliance is attracting Iran, parts of Latin America - and even parts of the European Union that are becoming very nervous at American bellicosity. That alliance is also making moves to put an end to US economic dominance. And it won't be hard because the US is in very serious decline - thanks to a form of capitalism that is based on principles alien to any religion in world history.
6. We are being manipulated into a war. Ii has to be soon because the US decline is so rapid. I don't know who the war will be against. But it doesn't matter. The reality is that any war at this stage is almost certain to lead to a world war because everybody has a stake in how this turns out. And a world war would become nuclear. To add to the confusion, the sides are rapidly changing - with the US becoming the odd man out. My guess is it will start with US troops in Iraq and, probably, Syria because Syria leans to the China-Russia side.
7. We will revive the old rallying cry that we are fighting terrorism. And that is a cry that never made sense. War IS terrorism. We might as well say we are going to war to fight war. In any case, it doesn't work. It never has. The US has spent 15 years fighting terrorism, and in that 15 years terrorism has multiplied. Fighting terrorism is what creates terrorism. (and, as a footnote, the biggest terrorist in the world is the US.)
8. We will send off another generation to fight a war to defend "freedom". In fact, at the end of both world wars in which we were told we were fighting to make all peoples free, we did not free anybody except some European countries that had been free before the war. Otherwise, Britain and France tried to force their old colonies to remain colonies. And the US settled down to destroying democracies that arose in Latin America. It is still doing that.
We are being played with - and when we start babbling about freedom of speech as though it were an absolute, we are just letting ourselves be reeled in as if we were a school of particularly low intelligence trout.
2, Hebdo is a cheap, low-quality tab. It writes stuff to play to bigotry and to satisfy hatreds.
3. This is not about religion. It's not about freedom. We are being manipulated. For Christ's sake, if I may say so, one of the world leaders who was there to protest in favour of freedom and all the good things was Netanyahu who has abused the legal rights and has murdered and robbed Palestinians. The righteous Obama has defended Netanyahu on that issue - and has done his own share of murdering (and it is a larger number that a dozen cartoonists.)
4. The killings were not done by Islam. They were done by a sect somewhat like Baptists. And at that they were responding to years, almost two hundred years, of killing of Muslims by Christians. (Baptists don't have any such excuse for their extremism.)
5. The whole world is changing and very, very quickly. China and Russia, by no means old friends, have formed an alliance in response to aggression from the west, notably from the US.. That alliance is attracting Iran, parts of Latin America - and even parts of the European Union that are becoming very nervous at American bellicosity. That alliance is also making moves to put an end to US economic dominance. And it won't be hard because the US is in very serious decline - thanks to a form of capitalism that is based on principles alien to any religion in world history.
6. We are being manipulated into a war. Ii has to be soon because the US decline is so rapid. I don't know who the war will be against. But it doesn't matter. The reality is that any war at this stage is almost certain to lead to a world war because everybody has a stake in how this turns out. And a world war would become nuclear. To add to the confusion, the sides are rapidly changing - with the US becoming the odd man out. My guess is it will start with US troops in Iraq and, probably, Syria because Syria leans to the China-Russia side.
7. We will revive the old rallying cry that we are fighting terrorism. And that is a cry that never made sense. War IS terrorism. We might as well say we are going to war to fight war. In any case, it doesn't work. It never has. The US has spent 15 years fighting terrorism, and in that 15 years terrorism has multiplied. Fighting terrorism is what creates terrorism. (and, as a footnote, the biggest terrorist in the world is the US.)
8. We will send off another generation to fight a war to defend "freedom". In fact, at the end of both world wars in which we were told we were fighting to make all peoples free, we did not free anybody except some European countries that had been free before the war. Otherwise, Britain and France tried to force their old colonies to remain colonies. And the US settled down to destroying democracies that arose in Latin America. It is still doing that.
We are being played with - and when we start babbling about freedom of speech as though it were an absolute, we are just letting ourselves be reeled in as if we were a school of particularly low intelligence trout.
Graeme Decarie
Well-Known Member
France treasures free speech? Oh. Really? and that's what the French revolution was about? May I point out that a major result of the revolution was making an outdoor entertainment of beheading people who opposed the revoluton? Gee. Beheading. isn't that what those terrible muslims do?
and then the revolution was followed by almost a century of dictatorship for those freedom-loving French. And during World War 2, most of them happily supported the freedom-loving Naziis. (They had also brought their freedom-loving ways to North Africa and Indo-China).
And us Canadians - have you forgotten and that AND OUR CHURCHES just recently apologized the the religious intolerance and living horrors we imposed on our native peoples.
Of course, we didn't really mean it. Did we?
and then the revolution was followed by almost a century of dictatorship for those freedom-loving French. And during World War 2, most of them happily supported the freedom-loving Naziis. (They had also brought their freedom-loving ways to North Africa and Indo-China).
And us Canadians - have you forgotten and that AND OUR CHURCHES just recently apologized the the religious intolerance and living horrors we imposed on our native peoples.
Of course, we didn't really mean it. Did we?
Delightful Life
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our owners send us to fight for them, to be poor for them, to love them...
Delightful Life
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this canadian is trying to spread the word of peaceful parenting; trying to save the world by abrogating forceful coercion -- states are inherently totalitarian
"we find ways to break the cycle of violence or violence will break us"
--stefan molyneux
--neet bits like citizenship is a gov't program :3
"we find ways to break the cycle of violence or violence will break us"
--stefan molyneux