What is sin?

[Northwind]

Okay, I feel like I am opening a can of worms......but we can handle it here in the new and improved WC! I was reading the Holy Spirit thread, and the notion of sin was mentioned. It made me wonder. What is your idea of sin? Do you need to be "saved" from it? Etc.

Meanwhile, I am pondering my response to the Holy Spirit question.....

 

[revsdd]

Sin is that which displeases God. By doing that which displeases God, we create a barrier between ourselves and God. Tearing down the barrier is "salvation." Jesus is the one who tears down that barrier. The New Testament has a variety of images for how that's done. Jesus is Emmanuel or God With Us. Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away sin. Jesus is the great high priest who stands before God on our behalf. There are others. All are ways of saying that Jesus reconciles us to God.

 

[unsafe]

What is sin -----Sin is a transgression against any law -----sin can only take place when laws are in place ------without laws there is no transgression -----

Cain killed his brother and God protected him --why because there was no law against murder at that time so no sin was committed in God's eyes and Cain did not feel guilty ------

Paul says this in Romans -----


Romans 5:13
Amplified Bible (AMP)

13 [To be sure] sin was in the world before ever the Law was given, but sin is not charged to men’s account where there is no law [to transgress].

When you are caught breaking a law there is always consequences -----and we have feelings of condemnation when we do what we are not suppose to -----

When we drive over the speed limit we are always looking for the cops over our shoulder -----When you lie to someone you always have to worry so you remember what you told that person and others so you don't get caught in your lie ----that is why telling the truth is so freeing cause you don't have to worry to remember what you said to the person ----

all sin brings condemnation

This is my take on sin ----Peace

 

[Seeler]

Northwind - my understanding of sin is when we lose our connection with one another, with the world we live in, and with the Spirit that surrounds us. We are restored into right relationship by the grace of God.

 

[Delightful Life]

Every culture has the concept of 'sin' and what it categorizes as sin. Things to which the particular culture avoids as they are inherently wrong by being inherently wrong

Some examples

The modern environmental movement: 'capitalism', 'fossil fuels', 'compound interest'

Cultural Marxism: 'hierarchies', 'essentialism in gender roles'

Modern science: 'causeless causes'

Canadians: 'Americans', 'patriotism', 'poutine'

Discordians: 'taking things too seriously', 'curse of greyface'

I've learned some other examples of sin thanks to the generous nature of the people on WC -- I really like the concept of 'missing the mark'

 

[chansen]

Sin is said to be a violation of God's will. What I want to know is, who said that first, and why?

Without that, and with no reason to believe in God in the first place, "sin" is meaningless. Some behaviour that is generally accepted as bad, can be a sin. Some perfectly fine behaviour is also supposed to be a sin. Christians often can't agree on what is a sin and what is not, despite having many copies of the rule book at their disposal.

To me, it's pointless.

 

[Jaebius]

Sin is said to be a violation of God's will. What I want to know is, who said that first, and why?

Without that, and with no reason to believe in God in the first place, "sin" is meaningless. Some behaviour that is generally accepted as bad, can be a sin. Some perfectly fine behaviour is also supposed to be a sin. Christians often can't agree on what is a sin and what is not, despite having many copies of the rule book at their disposal.

To me, it's pointless.

Behold the world of the atheist - where there is no sin - where even acts like murder - assault - torture - and theft are only subjectively bad. Where the morality of any act is situational - and there is no objective Judge above all.

 

[chansen]

Behold the world of the atheist - where there is no sin - where even acts like murder - assault - torture - and theft are only subjectively bad. Where the morality of any act is situational - and there is no objective Judge above all.

Of course there isn't. At least, there is zero reason to think there is.

The whole subjective vs. objective morality debate is one that doesn't interest me in the least. I'll note that atheists are, on average, pretty damn moral people, and no less moral than Christians. It's never been a case of "anything goes" for atheists, no matter how you try to paint it that way.

 

[Delightful Life]

Jae, sin is cultural -- what you find to be sinful other people won't necessarily find to be sinful.

'Atheist' isn't a thing in the same sense that 'Christian' is a thing.

(i see that among sombunall Christians, 'atheist' is a sin...)

Right now the whole world is trying to get some kind of Universal Human Rights enacted, a baseline of rights (including sins), which will be difficult, because there are deeply-ingrained categories of sin amongst sombunall people, like those who don't like gay marriage, those who don't mind slavery, those who don't like worker's rights or rights for women and so forth...

Anyhew folks, here's a good talk by comedian & debater Matt Dillahunty

 

[airclean33]

Of course there isn't. At least, there is zero reason to think there is.

The whole subjective vs. objective morality debate is one that doesn't interest me in the least. I'll note that atheists are, on average, pretty damn moral people, and no less moral than Christians. It's never been a case of "anything goes" for atheists, no matter how you try to paint it that way.

Hi Chansen--We who walk in the way Chansen . Are not like you think at all. We don't believe we are better than you.We have all sinned and come short of the mark chansen.Only one was good His name was Jesus The Christ. Thats it He lived His life and did no sin.Now stop trying to think with that mind of man for just a short time and lison.

 

[revjohn]

What is your idea of sin?

I'm content with the definition of sin as an error or mistake in judgment. It is to miss the mark or to fall short of some standard.

Do you need to be "saved" from it?

It is preferred.

On one level sin is like a mud-puddle. You can sit in it as long as you want but you can never be clean while you are.

Redemption, at minimum is hauling us out and cleaning us off.

 

[chansen]

Hi Chansen--We who walk in the way Chansen . Are not like you think at all. We don't believe we are better than you.We have all sinned and come short of the mark chansen.Only one was good His name was Jesus The Christ. Thats it He lived His life and did no sin.Now stop trying to think with that mind of man for just a short time and lison.

That was the worst 10 seconds of my life.

 

[Delightful Life]

“This kindness, this stupid kindness, is what is most truly human in a human being. It is what sets man apart, the highest achievement of his soul. No, it says, life is not evil!
This kindness is both senseless and wordless. It is instinctive, blind. When Christianity clothed it in the teachings of the Church Fathers, it began to fade; its kernel became a husk. It remains potent only while it is dumb and senseless, hidden in the living darkness of the human heart – before it becomes a tool or commodity in the hands of preachers, before its crude ore is forged into the gilt coins of holiness. It is as simple as life itself. Even the teachings of Jesus deprived it of its strength.
But, as I lost faith in good, I began to lose faith even in kindness. It seemed as beautiful and powerless as dew. What use was it if it was not contagious?
How can one make a power of it without losing it, without turning it into a husk as the Church did? Kindness is powerful only while it is powerless. If Man tries to give it power, it dims, fades away, loses itself, vanishes.”
― Vasily Grossman, Life and Fate

and also by Vasily, someone who lived and survived True Evil (Stalinist Russia), from the same book:

"I have seen that it is not man who is impotent in the struggle against evil, but the power of evil that is impotent in the struggle against man. The powerlessness of kindness, of senseless kindness, is the secret of its immortality. It can never be conquered. The more stupid, the more senseless, the more helpless it may seem, the vaster it is. Evil is impotent before it. The prophets, religious teachers, reformers, social and political leaders are impotent before it. This dumb, blind love is man’s meaning. Human history is not the battle of good struggling to overcome evil. It is a battle fought by a great evil, struggling to crush a small kernel of human kindness. But if what is human in human beings has not been destroyed even now, then evil will never conquer.”

 

[Delightful Life]

 

[Waterfall]

I think quite often sin just becomes another word for bigotry and hate. It can fuel a superior attitude and create divisions amongst the earths peoples. Cultures clash, religions differ, science offers alternative choices, etc... The meaning and definitions of sin evolve over time. Often what was once considered a sin, becomes acceptable.

 

[Azdgari]

Behold the world of the atheist - where there is no sin - where even acts like murder - assault - torture - and theft are only subjectively bad. Where the morality of any act is situational - and there is no objective Judge above all.

Something being a sin doesn't make it objectively bad. Just bad to a god as well as to humans. Is the god ultimately good? If so, then by whose standard, other than the god's own? The same could be said of any human.

Subjective morality is something that theism doesn't in any way fix. It just prevents some people from being honest about it.

 

[airclean33]

There was a woman caught in sin.She ran into Christ Jesus one day. The one who in all the earth could judge her. Lison to His words.
Jhn 8:11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again."
Do you understand our Lord didn't do away with the Law. He seen she had sinned and said He would not condemn her. But worned her not to sin again , for the Law was still there.

 

[Seeler]

Thinking more about this subject. Not changing my mind about my earlier post, but more deeply.

I think sin may depend upon motive. Is it enriching, uplifting, caring, life-giving. Or is it to shock, annoy, degrade, bring you satisfaction at the expense of another, powerseeking?

I'll use the example of sex. A wonderful gift, not just for procreation, but for sharing pleasure and/or bonding with another. But it can be used to degrade, humiliate, as a weapon of control or torture. What can be lovingly shared by two loving, caring, consenting adults can become a sin if used merely to satisfy one person's own needs without regard for the other.

 

[blackbelt1961]

Sin, means "to miss the mark." The mark, in this case, is the standard perfection of God and lived by Jesus life and testimony. Viewed in that light of Gods Law and Jesus Life, it is clear that we are all sinners, we all miss the Mark.


We live with this law of sin in our human nature and because of that sin we even become legalistic over which sin is wrong. When many of us consider "What is sin?" we think of violations of the Ten Commandments. Even then, we tend to think of murder and adultery as "major" sins compared with lying, cursing, or sexual, we even put sexual at the top of all sin. It is not so much of how we sin that is the problem , the problem is , is that we are sin, imperfect.


The point is, sin clouds our views and understandings even in our approach to sin itself , that is where the physical view of the death of Jesus on the cross helps, even when we don’t understand it all, looking to what Jesus did we can say, thank you Lord for doing what we cannot do and giving grace to humanity .

 

[Mendalla]

"Sin" is about relationship and failure thereof.

We sin when we do not uphold our side of a relationship, whether by neglecting the other or by abusing the other.

In a theistic world, the most important relationship is with God and therefore "Sin" tends to be largely about that relationship and our violations of it. Other relationships are often defined by that one (e.g. God handing down laws on things like murder and adultery that are really about our relationships with each other).

In a non-theistic world, the most important relationships are with the universe (of which we are a part), each other as individuals, and society. "Sin" is not about the little one off mistakes, but the pattern of misusing, abusing, or neglecting these relationships. Much of it comes to mindfulness. If we are mindful of our place in the world, society, and our individual relationships, sin becomes less of a problem.

Is there salvation?

Again, in the theistic world, God can offer forgiveness and salvation. That is central to much of Christianity, for instance. It works differently for different Christians, of course (as in the differences we see between John's Calvinism and the faith-based salvation offered by ac and unsafe) but it is generally there.

In the non-theistic world, it is harder. The universe is not very forgiving so the only salvation is a works-based salvation in which we try to remedy or avoid the effects of our failures. With each other and with society, there is certainly the possibility of forgiveness and new start. We must offer each other forgiveness. We must be prepared to recognize our failures and ask for it.