Bible Study Thread: Luke

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

How about giving us a quick summary of the argument put forward here?

I am not a big fan of videos being put up with no explanation.

At the very least, please tell us why you think it is worth watching.

Because in 8 minutes you can have a scholarly answer to a question that has been asked over and over for 2000 years.

And it takes me far more than 8 minutes to type one tenth of what is there. And if someone is actually interested in understanding scripture, it is a solid starting point. The one I posted, that is far longer, about Luke 15 is even more informative.

 

[unsafe]

Pontifex Geronimo 13 -----excellent video on the parable ---John sums it up nicely and quickly --------

unfortunately informative videos are not well received it seems ----Out of the heart the mouth speaks ----no need for me to post on this parable as the video does a great job explaining it -------Thanks for posting it ----

 

[Waterfall]

How about giving us a quick summary of the argument put forward here?

I am not a big fan of videos being put up with no explanation.

At the very least, please tell us why you think it is worth watching.

Basically Pontifax has posted a video that explains the parable that has stumped scholars for 2000 years (sarcasm). Although the videos answers are just as good a guess as anyones.

 

[unsafe]

Waterfall -----all parables will always take you to salvation and eternal life ----and this parable is no exception ----the guy could only secure his physical life by his dishonest ways of looking out for himself after he was fired -----it is most important to make sure we not only are secure in this life but to make sure we are secure in our eternal life so when this life has ended we are sure to have eternal life forever --and not eternal death ------unbelieves die twice -----physically and then spiritually ----forever disconnected from God -----this guy made his choice for this physical world only -----sad for him in his physical end -----

 

[paradox3]

Okay, I watched the 8 minute video. Several of the minutes were used for reading the text.

The message seemed to be that the dishonest manager was a negative example.

There was a focus on what we need to do to obtain eternal life. I hope I am not oversimplifying but that's my takeaway from the video.

 

[paradox3]

That's funny. @unsafe and I just posted at pretty much the same time.

We seem to have received a similar message from the video posted by @Pontifex Geronimo 13

 

[unsafe]

paradox3 ----- that is good ---glad you listened to the video ----All parables point to choosing eternal life -----that is why Jesus came and that is Him message in all the Parables -----Preaching the Good News was why He was sent -----Jesus is interested in one thing for people -----repenting and soul saving by having saving Faith in Him ------all else He talks about is secondary ------


Great saying here ----

 

[BetteTheRed]

If you want to make an argument, FFS, make it. It's not the length, it's missing good music for all of those minutes, on cbc, thinking, repeatedly, "get on with it", and "what's the point", "can you summarize - not"...

It wasn't a "scholarly answer". He doesn't use any academic back up and starts with "well, I think that"...Well, opinions are like a**holes - we all have one. I could call myself Pastor Bette; it would not make me a smidgeon more credible without...the back-up.

The precis, as far as I could tell, from the rambling:

Don't worry about whether you're good with money in this life, as long as you focus on your hopes for the afterlife, and if you're nice to people, they might get there first and put in a good word for you. I f***ing kid you not.

 

[paradox3]

Summary: Luke 16: 14 - 18

The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all this. And they ridiculed Jesus.

Jesus said, "You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of others, but God knows your heart: for what is prized by human beings is an abomination in the sight of God."

He went on to say that the law and the prophets were in effect until John came. Since then, the kingdom of God is proclaimed, and everyone tries to enter it by force. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one stroke of a letter in the law to be dropped.

Then Jesus declared that divorcing and remarrying constitutes adultery.

 

[paradox3]

Reflection: Luke 16: 14 -18

When the gospel writer tells us the Pharisees "heard all this", what did he mean by "all this"?

The Pharisees must have been hanging around while Jesus spoke to the disciples about the dishonest manager. But just a little earlier, they were grumbling as Jesus was about to tell the parables of the lost sheep, the lost coin and the prodigal son.

They ridiculed Jesus and He challenged them once again for putting esteem by others above God.

Jesus says the law and the prophets were in effect until John came and the Kingdom of God has now been proclaimed. Is He saying that even more is expected of God's people now? He seems to be critical of everyone trying to enter the Kingdom by force. I wonder what He meant by this statement.

It is possible that some will interpret these verses as Jesus saying there is (or will be soon) a new covenant to replace the old. But in tomorrow's reading, we will hear about Abraham, Moses and the other prophets who are to be listened to.

Does His saying about divorce and adultery establish a higher standard than the Hebrew scriptures? He is not forbidding divorce here but the divorced will commit adultery if they marry again. IIRC divorce had been acceptable under the law without such a restriction.

 

[unsafe]

BetteTheRed --------your quote -----
If you want to make an argument, FFS, make it. It's not the length, it's missing good music for all of those minutes, on cbc, thinking, repeatedly, "get on with it", and "what's the point", "can you summarize - not"...

It wasn't a "scholarly answer". He doesn't use any academic back up and starts with "well, I think that"...Well, opinions are like a**holes - we all have one. I could call myself Pastor Bette; it would not make me a smidgeon more credible without...the back-up.

The precis, as far as I could tell, from the rambling:

Don't worry about whether you're good with money in this life, as long as you focus on your hopes for the afterlife, and if you're nice to people, they might get there first and put in a good word for you. I f***ing kid you not.



unsafe says ---WOW !----Does this show ---where the heart is the mouth speaks -----and you call yourself a Christian
All your post does is show exactly that unbelievers hate and sneer at the truth and call the one delivering it names etc

Great example ---thanks for posting it -----


Now back to todays scripture

 

[Waterfall]

BetteTheRed --------your quote -----
If you want to make an argument, FFS, make it. It's not the length, it's missing good music for all of those minutes, on cbc, thinking, repeatedly, "get on with it", and "what's the point", "can you summarize - not"...

It wasn't a "scholarly answer". He doesn't use any academic back up and starts with "well, I think that"...Well, opinions are like a**holes - we all have one. I could call myself Pastor Bette; it would not make me a smidgeon more credible without...the back-up.

The precis, as far as I could tell, from the rambling:

Don't worry about whether you're good with money in this life, as long as you focus on your hopes for the afterlife, and if you're nice to people, they might get there first and put in a good word for you. I f***ing kid you not.



unsafe says ---WOW !----Does this show ---where the heart is the mouth speaks -----and you call yourself a Christian
All your post does is show exactly that unbelievers hate and sneer at the truth and call the one delivering it names etc

Great example ---thanks for posting it -----


Now back to todays scripture

Well at least she didn't call you a brood of vipers....that would be soooooo unchristian.
Sometimes humans just get frustrated and we lack grace....possibly your grace is needed here?

 

[unsafe]

Waterfall ----your quote -----Sometimes humans just get frustrated and we lack grace ---....possibly your grace is needed here?

unsafe says -----Frustration doesn't come from God there Waterfall ---it comes from the negative ------and I did call on Grace to help me speak truth ----this is my quote -below -----
unsafe says ---WOW !----Does this show ---where the heart is the mouth speaks -----and you call yourself a Christian
All your post does is show exactly that unbelievers hate and sneer at the truth and call the one delivering it names etc

unsafe says ----And because I posted truth it now has you fired up in your heart in defence of foul language being used and name calling -----interesting


We will be getting dinged here for getting off topic soon -----so back to Luke

 

[blackbelt1961]

Reflection: Luke 16: 14 -18

Jesus says the law and the prophets were in effect until John came and the Kingdom of God has now been proclaimed.

indeed, it was John who first proclaimed, " Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" when he saw Jesus coming.

Is He saying that even more is expected of God's people now?

indeed, because before Christ, the Kingdom was proclaimed by the Holy Spirit to the Prophets, when Jesus came the people now see Gods Son physically, they see His works, death, and Ressurection, now they have no excuse.

He seems to be critical of everyone trying to enter the Kingdom by force. I wonder what He meant by this statement.

Jesus is not being critical, those who Love Christ struggle and fight against their very own nature every single day, because their heart is changed, so they wish to do what the Kingdom calls for, Paul the Apostle speaks about this very strugle . whereas those who do not care of the Kingdom, there is no force in their personal lives, they don't care they live according to their own desires and then make excuses for them.

It is possible that some will interpret these verses as Jesus saying there is (or will be soon) a new covenant to replace the old. But in tomorrow's reading, we will hear about Abraham, Moses and the other prophets who are to be listened to.

Jesus becomes our new covenant, fulfills the Law for us, Jesus is the Grace of God for humanity. It does not mean we can go ahead and break all the Law as much as we like since now we have Jesus, it means, we try our best not to sin and when we do sin the work of Jesus covers us. It's an intent of the heart.

Does His saying about divorce and adultery establish a higher standard than the Hebrew scriptures? He is not forbidding divorce here but the divorced will commit adultery if they marry again. IIRC divorce had been acceptable under the law without such a restriction.

divorce was never acceptable, it was the Pharisees that made it acceptable, not God but because of the hardening of our hearts,,, aka our nature, it was permitted under various abuses of a marriage.

 

[blackbelt1961]

If you want to make an argument, FFS, make it. It's not the length, it's missing good music for all of those minutes, on cbc, thinking, repeatedly, "get on with it", and "what's the point", "can you summarize - not"...

It wasn't a "scholarly answer". He doesn't use any academic back up and starts with "well, I think that"...Well, opinions are like a**holes - we all have one. I could call myself Pastor Bette; it would not make me a smidgeon more credible without...the back-up.

The precis, as far as I could tell, from the rambling:

Don't worry about whether you're good with money in this life, as long as you focus on your hopes for the afterlife, and if you're nice to people, they might get there first and put in a good word for you. I f***ing kid you not.

for your penance, as an act of contrition

3 hail mary's, 2 our Father's

 

[paradox3]

Respectfully, @blackbelt1961 you seem to be giving us a personal faith testimony more than a reaction to today's text. The death and resurrection of Jesus have not yet occurred and the declaration that Jesus is the Lamb of God is still in the future.

If you cast your mind back to His ministry and His parables and sayings, what do you think is going on here? In the narrative as it is shared in Luke's gospel, I mean.

Why would Luke be telling the story as he does?

 

[blackbelt1961]

Respectfully, @blackbelt1961 you seem to be giving us a personal faith testimony more than a reaction to today's text. The death and resurrection of Jesus have not yet occurred and the declaration that Jesus is the Lamb of God is still in the future.

Not really no, Jesus was declared in John 1, before Luke 16, which is why John is mentioned, but before the resurrection, the Pharisees did see the Miracles performed by Jesus and refused to believe, even after The resurrection those who refused , the pharasies, still were alive, and refuted even harder.

If you cast your mind back to His ministry and His parables and sayings, what do you think is going on here? In the narrative as it is shared in Luke's gospel, I mean.

all the parables have 3 elements in common, The Kingdom of God, Jesus the Son of God, and our Proper relationship with God.

Why would Luke be telling the story as he does?

Luke is only 1 eyewitness to the accounts, to fully understand one truly needs to take into account all 4 gospels.

its like saying God is Love, and yes He is, but is that ALL that God is?

no, it's not, so to fully understand the Creator we need to read and understand all that He is

 

[Carolla]

for what is prized by human beings is an abomination in the sight of God."

This is a pretty big dichotomy that Jesus presents. Expression also of his frustration with the Pharisees?

it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one stroke of a letter in the law to be dropped.

This to me asks us to reflect at bit on our preoccupations with 'the law' - our rules, expectations, assumptions that we are often so reluctant to relinquish. These can be conscious or unconscious - and influence choices. Change is hard - is that also an aspect of this? To relinquish just 'one stroke' seems impossible at times.

 

[Redbaron]

Not really no, Jesus was declared in John 1, before Luke 16, which is why John is mentioned, but before the resurrection, the Pharisees did see the Miracles performed by Jesus and refused to believe, even after The resurrection those who refused , the pharasies, still were alive, and refuted even harder.




all the parables have 3 elements in common, The Kingdom of God, Jesus the Son of God, and our Proper relationship with God.


Luke is only 1 eyewitness to the accounts, to fully understand one truly needs to take into account all 4 gospels.

its like saying God is Love, and yes He is, but is that ALL that God is?

no, it's not, so to fully understand the Creator we need to read and understand all that He is

John's Gospel and Luke's Gospel are two different documents. Right now we are studying Luke's Gospel, which does NOT contain events from John's first chapter. It is the conflation of the stories that confuses things. We've had a few discussions of conflation already in this thread. Kindly avoid doing it. Please and thank you.

 

[Redbaron]

The Pharisees heard 'all this', esp. the bit about serving God and money, and were somewhat taken aback. For them, as for many in our day, money equaled blessing. To think that those who had wealth and influence were somehow NOT blessed by God might have shocked them. To them it seemed that Jesus was trying to rock the boat, and they liked their boats steady.
They may have thought of themselves as blessed by God; for they were relatively well-to-do, and respected pillars of the community. Seems that Jesus had different criteria for being blessed.