Your Creator, Redeemer, Energizer sounds like modalism.
Bible Study Thread: Luke
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Your Creator, Redeemer, Energizer sounds like modalism.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
what you believe to be true and what is actually True, are not the same
Limitations hide Gods light IMO.
GordW
Church-Geek-Oramus
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All images we use for the Trinity verge on some form of Heresy...
Creator REdeemer Energizer (more commonly SUstainer in my experience) speak of the actions of GOd. IIRC it is referred to as an economic model of the Trinity. ANd such a model has its place, but what it is missing is the relational language of Parent, Child/Son and Spirit.
At any rate Luke never outines the Trinity so...
Wjlie I get where JEsus is going here, the historical reality is that often the lamp is placed in such a way that only the chosen/proper few get to benefit from the light. It may not be the way to treat the light but outside of the domestic setting JEsus uses it is inaccurate to say "no one lights a lamp and hides it".
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
which has nothing to do with God revealing himself in scripture
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
this is so not true, no one knows the far reaches of the light of God
why is it inaccurate?
Of course......God never changes and doesnt reveal everything to even the son or the holy ghost..."only God knows the hour". Why can you not blaspheme the holy spirit (unforgivable sin) but you can Jesus and be forgiven..are they not equal?
Anyhoo...the Trinity needs its own thread.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
scripture and Jesus reveals God as Triune, though we struggle at the relationship and makeup of Trinity, non the less, they are Father, Son & Holy Spirit , nothing more as you indicated and nothing less ,
as far as the Holy Spirit is concerned, sinning against Him is forgivable, we all do it every day being believers and sinning against His will , it is Blasphemy that is not forgiven, which yes it includes Jesus and the fullness of all that the Godhead is
Like I said....it needs its own thread.
Carolla
wondering & wandering
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As for the light - I love the song "I am the the light of the world" by Jim Strathdee & Howard Thurman. Sung here by Strathdee & company -
As for today's scripture - I think Jesus is still speaking to his disciples - perhaps about their responsibilities of preaching & teaching. His comment in verse 18 stands out for me - "Then pay attention to how you listen" precedes the part about those who have and those who have not. Perhaps an instruction to listen well to ALL of what is said & to reflect on what is possibly being illuminated - that there are no secrets if one chooses to look once the light has been cast.
As for today's scripture - I think Jesus is still speaking to his disciples - perhaps about their responsibilities of preaching & teaching. His comment in verse 18 stands out for me - "Then pay attention to how you listen" precedes the part about those who have and those who have not. Perhaps an instruction to listen well to ALL of what is said & to reflect on what is possibly being illuminated - that there are no secrets if one chooses to look once the light has been cast.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Todays scripture ---Luke 8:16-18 GW
16 “No one lights a lamp and hides it under a bowl or puts it under a bed. Instead, everyone who lights a lamp puts it on a lamp stand so that those who come in will see the light.
17 There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. There is nothing kept secret that will not come to light.
18 “So pay attention to how you listen! Those who understand these mysteries will be given more knowledge. However, some people don’t understand these mysteries. Even what they think they understand will be taken away from them.”
unsafe says in verse 16 -----we see the word Lamp ----so what is the lamp referring to in this scripture --- is important to know -----does it actually refer to a lamp or is the lamp being used as a metaphor for something else ------
The Greek word used here is ---
Strong's Concordance
luchnos: a (portable) lamp
an oil-fed portable "lamp," usually set on a stand
unsafe says ----So we see that in this passage the lamp is liken to ----our eyes -----
(Luke 8:16; Luke 11:33; Luke 15:8), seeἅπτω, 1). To a lamp are likened — the eye, i. e. which shows the body which way to move and turn,
unsafe says ---So this scripture here is referring to our eyes are the lamp of our bodies ------when our eyes are good we not only see well but we perceive well -- our bodies will be full of Light -----our eyes see good and evil and the thing we see and perceive effect our whole being ----Satan we are told can present himself as an angel of light and if our eyes are dull or impaired we may think we have found the light when in fact it is a false light -----
verse 17 ---There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. There is nothing kept secret that will not come to light.
This word Hidden here in this scripture in Greek
Strong's Concordance
kruptos: hidden
Usage: hidden, secret; as subst: the hidden (secret) things (parts), the inward nature (character).
Matthew 10:26; Mark 4:22; Luke 8:17; Luke 12:2 , the inner part of man, the soul,
unsafe says ----In This verse we see that nothing will be hidden -or kept secret that won't come to the light --there is no light or truth that will be kept hidden from us as God wants all His Children to see and understand the truth of the Scripture ---We will receive and understand truth as we are able to accept it -----When we are Babes in Christ we are no ready to have the meat of the scripture reveled to us ---the more we mature the more light and truth is reveled -----
verse 18---- “So pay attention to how you listen! Those who understand these mysteries will be given more knowledge. However, some people don’t understand these mysteries. Even what they think they understand will be taken away from them.”
unsafe says -----We see here a warning God's Children to pay attention to how we listen to what is being reveled to us -----There is an art of Listening intently to God's Word and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide us to the Light of what is being said ---- We have an enemy loose Satan's job is to place doubt --unbelief about what we are hearing and by these he can lead us away from the Word -----
So to the Believer who listens intently to the word The Holy Spirit gives the understanding by illumination also will give more knowledge to the person -----and the Believers who don't listen intently and still think they understand without the Holy Spirit's guidance Satan will come and remove even what they think the understand ------
16 “No one lights a lamp and hides it under a bowl or puts it under a bed. Instead, everyone who lights a lamp puts it on a lamp stand so that those who come in will see the light.
17 There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. There is nothing kept secret that will not come to light.
18 “So pay attention to how you listen! Those who understand these mysteries will be given more knowledge. However, some people don’t understand these mysteries. Even what they think they understand will be taken away from them.”
unsafe says in verse 16 -----we see the word Lamp ----so what is the lamp referring to in this scripture --- is important to know -----does it actually refer to a lamp or is the lamp being used as a metaphor for something else ------
The Greek word used here is ---
Strong's Concordance
luchnos: a (portable) lamp
an oil-fed portable "lamp," usually set on a stand
unsafe says ----So we see that in this passage the lamp is liken to ----our eyes -----
(Luke 8:16; Luke 11:33; Luke 15:8), seeἅπτω, 1). To a lamp are likened — the eye, i. e. which shows the body which way to move and turn,
unsafe says ---So this scripture here is referring to our eyes are the lamp of our bodies ------when our eyes are good we not only see well but we perceive well -- our bodies will be full of Light -----our eyes see good and evil and the thing we see and perceive effect our whole being ----Satan we are told can present himself as an angel of light and if our eyes are dull or impaired we may think we have found the light when in fact it is a false light -----
verse 17 ---There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. There is nothing kept secret that will not come to light.
This word Hidden here in this scripture in Greek
Strong's Concordance
kruptos: hidden
Usage: hidden, secret; as subst: the hidden (secret) things (parts), the inward nature (character).
Matthew 10:26; Mark 4:22; Luke 8:17; Luke 12:2 , the inner part of man, the soul,
unsafe says ----In This verse we see that nothing will be hidden -or kept secret that won't come to the light --there is no light or truth that will be kept hidden from us as God wants all His Children to see and understand the truth of the Scripture ---We will receive and understand truth as we are able to accept it -----When we are Babes in Christ we are no ready to have the meat of the scripture reveled to us ---the more we mature the more light and truth is reveled -----
verse 18---- “So pay attention to how you listen! Those who understand these mysteries will be given more knowledge. However, some people don’t understand these mysteries. Even what they think they understand will be taken away from them.”
unsafe says -----We see here a warning God's Children to pay attention to how we listen to what is being reveled to us -----There is an art of Listening intently to God's Word and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide us to the Light of what is being said ---- We have an enemy loose Satan's job is to place doubt --unbelief about what we are hearing and by these he can lead us away from the Word -----
So to the Believer who listens intently to the word The Holy Spirit gives the understanding by illumination also will give more knowledge to the person -----and the Believers who don't listen intently and still think they understand without the Holy Spirit's guidance Satan will come and remove even what they think the understand ------
GordW
Church-Geek-Oramus
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I was not speaking of the theological point, I was speaking of the image/metaphor.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
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Summary: Luke 8: 19 - 25
1. The mother and brothers of Jesus try to approach him but cannot reach him because of the crowd. Jesus is told about this and responds, "My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it."
2. Jesus and his disciples get into a boat and set out across the lake. While they are sailing, Jesus falls asleep. A storm comes up and the disciples waken Jesus, fearful of perishing. Jesus rebukes the winds and the waves and there is calm. Jesus says, "Where is your faith?"
The disciples are afraid and amazed. They question, "Who is this, that he commands even the winds and the water and they obey him?"
1. The mother and brothers of Jesus try to approach him but cannot reach him because of the crowd. Jesus is told about this and responds, "My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it."
2. Jesus and his disciples get into a boat and set out across the lake. While they are sailing, Jesus falls asleep. A storm comes up and the disciples waken Jesus, fearful of perishing. Jesus rebukes the winds and the waves and there is calm. Jesus says, "Where is your faith?"
The disciples are afraid and amazed. They question, "Who is this, that he commands even the winds and the water and they obey him?"
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Reflection: Luke 8: 19 - 25
Here we have two little stories about Jesus and those closest to him. . . his family and his disciples.
How do you read his response to his family showing up with the crowds? Is he chiding them because they don't hear and act on the word of God? This text is often read as Jesus rejecting his family.
The disciples are rebuked for their lack of faith and they question the very nature of Jesus.
In this passage we see a miraculous Jesus who can calm the waters and control the winds. Did the human Jesus ever feel lonely, I wonder?
Here we have two little stories about Jesus and those closest to him. . . his family and his disciples.
How do you read his response to his family showing up with the crowds? Is he chiding them because they don't hear and act on the word of God? This text is often read as Jesus rejecting his family.
The disciples are rebuked for their lack of faith and they question the very nature of Jesus.
In this passage we see a miraculous Jesus who can calm the waters and control the winds. Did the human Jesus ever feel lonely, I wonder?
Thoughts on Luke 8:19-25...
Jesus was teaching when an interruption came. His mother and his half-brothers had come, intending to give him a vacation. They couldn't come near him because of the crowd that filled all available space.
So the request of his relatives was passed along, until Jesus was told by those nearest to him that his mother and his brothers wanted to see him.
Their understanding of Jesus' work was poor. So their attempt was an interference with Jesus' business. He didn't go out to them, nor did he let them disturb him.
He was about God's business, and in those duties' performance no one may hinder him.
☆ This is an example for today's missionaries that they may not be turned aside from their purpose when their work concerns God's kingdom. ☆
Jesus here gave an answer which could be sent to the relatives, "My mother and my brothers are these that hear and do God's Word."
The spiritual relationship with Jesus through faith's closer by far than any physical relationship could be. It brings the missionary into the closest communion with Jesus.
It was at day's close that Jesus embarked in a boat with his missionaries, and he gave the command to sail to the other side. The missionaries set sail for the lake's center.
Jesus was a man, with a man's physical needs. So now, he fell asleep, though there was no bed aboard.
A storm came down upon the lake, just as the sea's waters violently rushed in upon them from all sides, filling the boat and placing them in peril.
Jesus slept. Nature's powers can't harm Jesus.
☆ If a missionary has Jesus with them, then they're secure in spite of enemies' threatening. Not a hair may be harmed without Jesus' will. ☆
The missionaries were at their wits' end. They awakened Jesus with the call that they were perishing.
He showed his power. They felt their doubt on this account more than by Jesus' words. For he arose and spoke to the wind and to the waters' surge. And they paused. Their fierceness was replaced with calm.
And then came the rebuke from Jesus' mouth, chiding their doubt.
The missionaries were afraid in such power's presence. Simultaneously, they wondered that he a man, who'd been asleep, could command the winds and the water, and exact obedience from them.
Jesus, a man, is simultaneously God, the Creator. People that trust in him are assured of safety in his arms.
Jesus was teaching when an interruption came. His mother and his half-brothers had come, intending to give him a vacation. They couldn't come near him because of the crowd that filled all available space.
So the request of his relatives was passed along, until Jesus was told by those nearest to him that his mother and his brothers wanted to see him.
Their understanding of Jesus' work was poor. So their attempt was an interference with Jesus' business. He didn't go out to them, nor did he let them disturb him.
He was about God's business, and in those duties' performance no one may hinder him.
☆ This is an example for today's missionaries that they may not be turned aside from their purpose when their work concerns God's kingdom. ☆
Jesus here gave an answer which could be sent to the relatives, "My mother and my brothers are these that hear and do God's Word."
The spiritual relationship with Jesus through faith's closer by far than any physical relationship could be. It brings the missionary into the closest communion with Jesus.
It was at day's close that Jesus embarked in a boat with his missionaries, and he gave the command to sail to the other side. The missionaries set sail for the lake's center.
Jesus was a man, with a man's physical needs. So now, he fell asleep, though there was no bed aboard.
A storm came down upon the lake, just as the sea's waters violently rushed in upon them from all sides, filling the boat and placing them in peril.
Jesus slept. Nature's powers can't harm Jesus.
☆ If a missionary has Jesus with them, then they're secure in spite of enemies' threatening. Not a hair may be harmed without Jesus' will. ☆
The missionaries were at their wits' end. They awakened Jesus with the call that they were perishing.
He showed his power. They felt their doubt on this account more than by Jesus' words. For he arose and spoke to the wind and to the waters' surge. And they paused. Their fierceness was replaced with calm.
And then came the rebuke from Jesus' mouth, chiding their doubt.
The missionaries were afraid in such power's presence. Simultaneously, they wondered that he a man, who'd been asleep, could command the winds and the water, and exact obedience from them.
Jesus, a man, is simultaneously God, the Creator. People that trust in him are assured of safety in his arms.
They were clearly there to take him away from his work paradox3. I call such time away from work a vacation, don't you? I'm not saying they were there to put him aboard a cruise ship or something.
Redbaron
Pirate fan since the dark ages
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Jesus' comments on who his family were would have been scandalous to those who heard him. After all, many of them would have taken great pride in being children of Abraham. And family lineage (see the 2 lists of ancestors in Matthew and Luke, for examples) determined your place ion society. One thing Jesus seems to indicate here is it doesn't matter who begat you. In God's household all relationships are made new; you are on equal footing with all of God's children.
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