BetteTheRed
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And where do you place kindness against perfection?
Bible Study Thread: Luke
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blackbelt1961
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paradox3
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Summary: Luke 6: 27 - 36
Love your enemies. Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who abuse you.
If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other one also. If anyone takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt.
Give to everyone who begs from you.
Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
It is of no credit to you to love those who love you. It is of no credit to you if you lend to those from who you hope to receive.
Love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, who is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. Be merciful, just as God is merciful.
Love your enemies. Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who abuse you.
If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other one also. If anyone takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt.
Give to everyone who begs from you.
Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
It is of no credit to you to love those who love you. It is of no credit to you if you lend to those from who you hope to receive.
Love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, who is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. Be merciful, just as God is merciful.
paradox3
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Reflection: Luke 6: 27 - 36
If only we could follow these directions for living! We would live in a different world.
Are these realistic commands? I am worried that they could perpetuate the cycle of abuse in some situations.
Yet as pacifist ideals, they are hard to dispute.
Interesting context for the Golden Rule (v. 31).
If only we could follow these directions for living! We would live in a different world.
Are these realistic commands? I am worried that they could perpetuate the cycle of abuse in some situations.
Yet as pacifist ideals, they are hard to dispute.
Interesting context for the Golden Rule (v. 31).
unsafe
Well-Known Member
todays Scripture -----
Luke 6:27-30 (GW)
Love Your Enemies
27 “But I tell everyone who is listening: Love your enemies. Be kind to those who hate you.
The Amplified Bibles say this for verse 27 -----
27 “But I say to you who hear [Me and pay attention to My words]: Love [that is, unselfishly seek the best or higher good for] your enemies, [make it a practice to] do good to those who hate you,
unsafe says ----So here we see we are to pay attention to God's Word -------His Word is all we have -----The Word is Jesus speaking ---The Word is alive and Active according to Scripture ---Not Me ----
unsafe is posting here from Strong's Concordance --------The Greek Word for Love here is Agapao
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 25 agapáō – properly, to prefer, to love; for the believer, preferring to "live through Christ"
i.e. embracing God's will (choosing His choices) and obeying them through His power.
25 (agapáō) preeminently refers to what God prefers as He "is love" (1 Jn 4:8,16). See 26 (agapē).
With the believer, 25 /agapáō ("to love") means actively doing what the Lord prefers, with Him (by His power and direction).
. True 25 /agapáō ("loving") is always defined by God – a "discriminating affection which involves choice and selection" (WS, 477). 1 Jn 4:8,16,
17 for example convey how loving is Christ living His life through the believer.
unsafe says ------So this Love is the Love that ONLY comes by way of the Holy Spirit -----and this Love has to be cultivated by embracing God's Will and obeying His Will --(He Choices ) not ours ----through His Power ---Not our Power ------
No Human being has the staying Power to Love their enemies all the time on there own Power which is also translated ability----and anyone who thinks they can Agape their enemies with out the power of Jesus in them is only fooling themselves ------
unsafe says -----So the rest of this scripture relies on Agape ------
28 Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who insult you. 29 If someone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other cheek as well. If someone takes your coat, don’t stop him from taking your shirt. 30 Give to everyone who asks you for something. If someone takes what is yours, don’t insist on getting it back.
unsafe says ---Our Human Sinful Nature is not strong enough to be consistent in what this scripture is implying ----- Having the Power --ability to stay the course is beyond our Human capability -----Christ in us is the only one who can give us the Staying power to accomplish what this scripture is asking us to do -----
Human Love Fails ---we see it all the time in Marriages ---in Churches ---in Friendships ----Relationships ----etc ---Human Love is very demanding
unsafe says
God's Agape Never Fails -----This Love Loves the unlovely all the time no matter what is done to it ------This is God's Love for all His Creation -----and if you read the Bible this Love who is God shows it self all the way through from Genesis to Revelation -----
To have the stating power to do as this scripture says even with the power in us takes Practice ---Practice and More Practice on our Part -We have to Practice Keeping our emotions in check by relying on the Strength of Christ in us and allow that strength to work in us and through us till we master the right end ----It is not easy following Jesus ---it is hard work and takes endurance and spending as much time in His word as we can to strengthen our Faith and Trust in Him not relying on our own fragile --frail Humans selves -----
This Word will remain in a deep mess Till Jesus returns and Fixes it Himself -------Without Jesus in us we are just frail humans who just think we are all that and can solve the worlds problems with God -----
unsafe safe says and posted from 1 Peter
Babes in Christ require first the Milk of the Word --then we are to move on to the Meat or Solid food of the Word to accomplish what Luke 6:27-30 is asking us to do ------
Luke 6:27-30 (GW)
Love Your Enemies
27 “But I tell everyone who is listening: Love your enemies. Be kind to those who hate you.
The Amplified Bibles say this for verse 27 -----
27 “But I say to you who hear [Me and pay attention to My words]: Love [that is, unselfishly seek the best or higher good for] your enemies, [make it a practice to] do good to those who hate you,
unsafe says ----So here we see we are to pay attention to God's Word -------His Word is all we have -----The Word is Jesus speaking ---The Word is alive and Active according to Scripture ---Not Me ----
unsafe is posting here from Strong's Concordance --------The Greek Word for Love here is Agapao
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 25 agapáō – properly, to prefer, to love; for the believer, preferring to "live through Christ"
i.e. embracing God's will (choosing His choices) and obeying them through His power.
25 (agapáō) preeminently refers to what God prefers as He "is love" (1 Jn 4:8,16). See 26 (agapē).
With the believer, 25 /agapáō ("to love") means actively doing what the Lord prefers, with Him (by His power and direction).
. True 25 /agapáō ("loving") is always defined by God – a "discriminating affection which involves choice and selection" (WS, 477). 1 Jn 4:8,16,
17 for example convey how loving is Christ living His life through the believer.
unsafe says ------So this Love is the Love that ONLY comes by way of the Holy Spirit -----and this Love has to be cultivated by embracing God's Will and obeying His Will --(He Choices ) not ours ----through His Power ---Not our Power ------
No Human being has the staying Power to Love their enemies all the time on there own Power which is also translated ability----and anyone who thinks they can Agape their enemies with out the power of Jesus in them is only fooling themselves ------
unsafe says -----So the rest of this scripture relies on Agape ------
28 Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who insult you. 29 If someone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other cheek as well. If someone takes your coat, don’t stop him from taking your shirt. 30 Give to everyone who asks you for something. If someone takes what is yours, don’t insist on getting it back.
unsafe says ---Our Human Sinful Nature is not strong enough to be consistent in what this scripture is implying ----- Having the Power --ability to stay the course is beyond our Human capability -----Christ in us is the only one who can give us the Staying power to accomplish what this scripture is asking us to do -----
Human Love Fails ---we see it all the time in Marriages ---in Churches ---in Friendships ----Relationships ----etc ---Human Love is very demanding
unsafe says
God's Agape Never Fails -----This Love Loves the unlovely all the time no matter what is done to it ------This is God's Love for all His Creation -----and if you read the Bible this Love who is God shows it self all the way through from Genesis to Revelation -----
To have the stating power to do as this scripture says even with the power in us takes Practice ---Practice and More Practice on our Part -We have to Practice Keeping our emotions in check by relying on the Strength of Christ in us and allow that strength to work in us and through us till we master the right end ----It is not easy following Jesus ---it is hard work and takes endurance and spending as much time in His word as we can to strengthen our Faith and Trust in Him not relying on our own fragile --frail Humans selves -----
This Word will remain in a deep mess Till Jesus returns and Fixes it Himself -------Without Jesus in us we are just frail humans who just think we are all that and can solve the worlds problems with God -----
unsafe safe says and posted from 1 Peter
Babes in Christ require first the Milk of the Word --then we are to move on to the Meat or Solid food of the Word to accomplish what Luke 6:27-30 is asking us to do ------
unsafe
Well-Known Member
This is the rest of the scripture -----
Luke 6:31-36 (AMP)
31 Treat others the same way you want them to treat you. 32 If you [only] love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 If you lend [money] to those from whom you expect to receive [it back], what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners expecting to receive back the same amount.
35 But love [that is, unselfishly seek the best or higher good for] your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; for your reward will be great (rich, abundant), and you will be sons of the Most High; because He Himself is kind and gracious and good to the ungrateful and the wicked. 36 Be merciful (responsive, compassionate, tender) just as your [heavenly] Father is merciful.
unsafe says -----So we see here the principle of Giving in the Bible and what the Word says about wanting to get a return on what we give ------True Christ-ians are to Give and not expect back ---When we are Grounded and Rooted in The Love of Christ the command to give without receiving back become easy and is done with joy in their heart as we are serving God and sowing into His Kingdom ----God is getting the Glory for our giving -----
Again this ties in with the Scripture of Love Agape your enemies -----We are to be Christ like in our Character that should be our goal in achieving Maturity in our walk with Christ -----When we stumble in our Maturing we should not dwell on it --we should get straight back on the High Road and try and try again- calling on the Grace in us to strengthen us to master the goal -------
In my opinion no Human will ever attain the full Character of Christ in our Lifetime ---All we can do is be Hungry and Thirsty in our quest to stay the course while we are here on this earth -----
Luke 6:31-36 (AMP)
31 Treat others the same way you want them to treat you. 32 If you [only] love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 If you lend [money] to those from whom you expect to receive [it back], what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners expecting to receive back the same amount.
35 But love [that is, unselfishly seek the best or higher good for] your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; for your reward will be great (rich, abundant), and you will be sons of the Most High; because He Himself is kind and gracious and good to the ungrateful and the wicked. 36 Be merciful (responsive, compassionate, tender) just as your [heavenly] Father is merciful.
unsafe says -----So we see here the principle of Giving in the Bible and what the Word says about wanting to get a return on what we give ------True Christ-ians are to Give and not expect back ---When we are Grounded and Rooted in The Love of Christ the command to give without receiving back become easy and is done with joy in their heart as we are serving God and sowing into His Kingdom ----God is getting the Glory for our giving -----
Again this ties in with the Scripture of Love Agape your enemies -----We are to be Christ like in our Character that should be our goal in achieving Maturity in our walk with Christ -----When we stumble in our Maturing we should not dwell on it --we should get straight back on the High Road and try and try again- calling on the Grace in us to strengthen us to master the goal -------
In my opinion no Human will ever attain the full Character of Christ in our Lifetime ---All we can do is be Hungry and Thirsty in our quest to stay the course while we are here on this earth -----
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
its very interesting, Jesus takes the Golden rule, which is basically reciprocal love for human standards, and then raises the bar to love your enemies, and those who hate and persecute you, to divine Godly standards.
Jesus Raise the standard in fact above all religions, to a point that most if not all cannot attain. The effect is, the believer Looks to Christ for spiritual help in these bad situations, a shift of perception from self-based love to Godly self-less love. And even though out self-less love is not perfect, Christ again has shifted our perception from man to God.
This is interesting if one compares how an abused man/woman/child would be counselled today. Especially offering the other cheek.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
unsafe clarifying this typo error in my post above------ This Word will remain in a deep mess Till Jesus returns and Fixes it Himself -------Without Jesus in us we are just frail humans who just think we are all that and can solve the worlds problems with God -----
this should be without God -----
this should be without God -----
GordW
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It would seem to be a case where the same advice is not appropriate in all circumstances. Sometimes the appropriate advice is "leave the situation". Sometimes (the civil rights protests in the US 50+ years ago, Ghandi in India 70+years ago come to mind) the advice Jesus gives here is a valid way to protest.
paradox3
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Summary: Luke 6: 37 - 42
Do not judge and you will not be judged.
Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned.
Forgive and you will be forgiven.
The measure you give will be given back to you.
Jesus told a parable. Can a blind person guide a blind person? Will they not both fall into a pit?
A disciple is not above the teacher but everyone who is fully qualified will be like the teacher.
Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye but do not notice the log in your own? Why do you offer to remove the speck from your neighbor's eye without seeing the log in your own?
First take the log out of your own eye and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye.
Do not judge and you will not be judged.
Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned.
Forgive and you will be forgiven.
The measure you give will be given back to you.
Jesus told a parable. Can a blind person guide a blind person? Will they not both fall into a pit?
A disciple is not above the teacher but everyone who is fully qualified will be like the teacher.
Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye but do not notice the log in your own? Why do you offer to remove the speck from your neighbor's eye without seeing the log in your own?
First take the log out of your own eye and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye.
paradox3
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Summary: Luke 6: 37 - 42
How very easy it is to judge others! And to use stricter standards to judge others than we use on ourselves.
How often do we tell others what they should do without even knowing their circumstances? My mom always had a saying, "The easiest children to raise are someone else's."
The call to avoid judging and condemning others is a powerful one. Hard to do but in return we will not be judged or condemned ourselves.
Forgive and we will be forgiven, the gospel writer assures us.
A well-known and important text today.
How very easy it is to judge others! And to use stricter standards to judge others than we use on ourselves.
How often do we tell others what they should do without even knowing their circumstances? My mom always had a saying, "The easiest children to raise are someone else's."
The call to avoid judging and condemning others is a powerful one. Hard to do but in return we will not be judged or condemned ourselves.
Forgive and we will be forgiven, the gospel writer assures us.
A well-known and important text today.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Quote from above Post ------How very easy it is to judge others! And to use stricter standards to judge others than we use on ourselves.
First off ---we need to understand that for the Believer there is Righteous Judgment ------Jesus used Righteous Judgment with the Pharisees and scribes -----they made their own rules and traditions and they twisted scripture to suit their own Doctrine -----they kept their Church in bondage -----and Jesus did not mince His words He told them exactly what wrong they were doing by not following the scripture as it was ------
Today we have this same problem in our Churches today -----Ministers adding their own spin on scripture ---preaching False Doctrine ----sugar coating Scripture so as not to offend -----sending their church do the wrong eternal path and not caring where their sheep end up ----
There is Righteous Judgment and the Believer has an obligation to defend the Truth of the scriptures and to let other believers know when they sre going down the wrong path -----We are to do it with compassion and Agape but the scripture is very clear on what the believer should do if the person does not listen -----
. unsafe posting Greek word for Righteous Judgment
Strong's Concordance
dikaiokrisia: righteous judgment
Original Word: δικαιοκρισία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: dikaiokrisia
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah-yok-ris-ee'-ah)
Definition: righteous judgment
Usage: just judging, just judgment.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 1341 dikaiokrisía (a feminine noun derived from 1342/díkaios, "righteous" and 2920 /krísis, "judgment") – properly, the brand of judgment based on God's standard (His own justice), condemning what is wrong in light of His eternal morality (used only in Ro 2:5). See 1343 (dikaiosynē).
There are rules and Regulations for Righteous Judgment and the scripture points them out ------So we believers should do our research on how to Judge rightly other believers ------
Worldly people live in the world and do as the world does ---but believers are to be Christ Like in their behaviour and attitude and not allow other believers to fall away if they see it happening -----
First off ---we need to understand that for the Believer there is Righteous Judgment ------Jesus used Righteous Judgment with the Pharisees and scribes -----they made their own rules and traditions and they twisted scripture to suit their own Doctrine -----they kept their Church in bondage -----and Jesus did not mince His words He told them exactly what wrong they were doing by not following the scripture as it was ------
Today we have this same problem in our Churches today -----Ministers adding their own spin on scripture ---preaching False Doctrine ----sugar coating Scripture so as not to offend -----sending their church do the wrong eternal path and not caring where their sheep end up ----
There is Righteous Judgment and the Believer has an obligation to defend the Truth of the scriptures and to let other believers know when they sre going down the wrong path -----We are to do it with compassion and Agape but the scripture is very clear on what the believer should do if the person does not listen -----
. unsafe posting Greek word for Righteous Judgment
Strong's Concordance
dikaiokrisia: righteous judgment
Original Word: δικαιοκρισία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: dikaiokrisia
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah-yok-ris-ee'-ah)
Definition: righteous judgment
Usage: just judging, just judgment.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 1341 dikaiokrisía (a feminine noun derived from 1342/díkaios, "righteous" and 2920 /krísis, "judgment") – properly, the brand of judgment based on God's standard (His own justice), condemning what is wrong in light of His eternal morality (used only in Ro 2:5). See 1343 (dikaiosynē).
There are rules and Regulations for Righteous Judgment and the scripture points them out ------So we believers should do our research on how to Judge rightly other believers ------
Worldly people live in the world and do as the world does ---but believers are to be Christ Like in their behaviour and attitude and not allow other believers to fall away if they see it happening -----
paradox3
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See anything cult-like in the text itself?
I am just curious to know if the passage itself is objectionable to you.
Maybe I should go have a look in that Skeptics Version you told us about on another thread.
It does contain a section of worthwhile readings/ messages from the bible. A very small section, of course.
BetteTheRed
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Problem is, unsafe, that as soon as you have decided that you are qualified to judge me (and don't deflect attention away to the Bible, because we interpret many parts differently), then you have put yourself above me, and you're in danger of judgment yourself, as pointed out in Luke above.
Righteous judgment is God's prerogative, and ONLY God's prerogative.
Righteous judgment is God's prerogative, and ONLY God's prerogative.
paradox3
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Agreeing completely with this post and its reference to the text from Luke.
chansen
Had a point all along
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Do you even read unsafe's posts?
paradox3
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Yes I do look at her posts and was attempting to engage in conversation with her earlier on the thread. I have a different approach to scripture than unsafe & I hope that is evident from my many contributions here. I have been dismissed by unsafe as an unbeliever and likened to a Pharisee so that should tell you something.
My question to you was about the text itself, not any particular poster's interpretation of it.
I find this very insightful....how much more time does it take to actually understand someone, whether they're a friend or an enemy?
Listening and understanding and desiring to know takes time and effort more than any "righteous judgement" will serve.
I think God wants us to dig deeper and find what we have to offer in a good way to someone rather than take away through judging.
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